The 2017 NBA Finals Thread

[GatorAZ]

Cavs have $105M committed to their starting five next year, and more the year after that. LeBron will be another year older. I don't want to jinx it, but we may never see him win another ring.

Come to the Suns in 2022!!

 

[Cheesebeef]

He's. great player but he's just another weapon on a team that was already the best team in the league.

His legacy will be the same as every other mercenary.


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I don't begrudge that opinion either.

 

[AZBALLER]

Um the Warriors were the best team last season, but the league took the trophy away from them. The refs influence the games. They could have made this season a series.

 

[SirStefan32]

Um the Warriors were the best team last season, but the league took the trophy away from them. The refs influence the games. They could have made this season a series.

Well, they choked. League is going to help LeBron, but at the end of the day, you have to win 5 against six. Warriors choked and handed the trophy to the Cavs.

 

[TJ]

If I count correctly, that's five Finals losses for James. Is that the most all-time? The only other possibility would be someone who was on the Minneapolis/LA Lakers teams that kept being runner up to the Celtics dynasty. Is there an easy way to look it up?

Edit: Never mind, answered my own question. Elgin Baylor and Jerry West lost eight each. James is now tied with someone named Larry Foust for third all-time.

http://hoopshype.com/2017/05/27/players-with-the-most-nba-finals-losses/

I really hate when people use this as a point of reference in discussing LeBron's legacy. Ring total is a team accomplishment, and I've never heard an argument in which Bill Russell is the unquestioned leader in the clubhouse with 11.

In the 8 NBA finals, LeBron was only the favorite in two of them:

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The issue with teams that LeBron has played for is that all of them had mediocre to sub-average head coaches. Spoelstra was terrible a setting up plays out of timeouts. Lue's substitution packages and defensive assignments are lousy and looks like a deer in headlights when his teams are getting bludgeoned. Blatt and Brown were clueless. Whether LeBron had any impact on that or not is a different story, but I have an idea of what his championship total would look like had he been coached by a person like Phil, Pop, Riley et al. (remember, Jordan and Kobe never won a single ring without Phil). It takes a certain type of coach with a certain approach to handling the ego that naturally comes from a massive ego.

 

[mojorizen7]

I've heard it said that for championship basketball you need one great, two goods and a bunch of quality role guys.
If Kevin Love is supposed to be part of the big three in CLE along with LeBron and Irving they need to do better than that.

 

[elindholm]

I really hate when people use this as a point of reference in discussing LeBron's legacy.

I figured someone would interpret it that way. I was just making an observation out of curiosity.

 

[Russ Smith]

Figures, we got home at 3 and found out the cable was out and had been since 11 am. We missed the entire game, had to listen on my phone. Finally came on about 10pm after the game ended.

Glad they won, wish I had been able to watch.

I think someone mentioned it here before but there are apparently rumors LeBron wants to opt out and join the Lakers, apparently not happy with the roster, the GM or the coach. I don't know their cap situation but I have to think that would be terrible for the NBA. Boston isn't going to get enough in the draft to challenge the Warriors soon so if LeBron goes to the West, the East has no challenger.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Figures, we got home at 3 and found out the cable was out and had been since 11 am. We missed the entire game, had to listen on my phone. Finally came on about 10pm after the game ended.

Glad they won, wish I had been able to watch.

I think someone mentioned it here before but there are apparently rumors LeBron wants to opt out and join the Lakers, apparently not happy with the roster, the GM or the coach. I don't know their cap situation but I have to think that would be terrible for the NBA. Boston isn't going to get enough in the draft to challenge the Warriors soon so if LeBron goes to the West, the East has no challenger.

Oh my lord... I wouldn't be able to stop vomiting.

But join the Lakers? That makes no sense. They have crap talent and little cap space.

Although, maybe they trade #2 for Paul George, get Chris Paul as a FA and go with the rest of their young guns. All of a sudden Randle, Russel, Clarkson and Ingraham become pretty good, YOUNG ATHLETIC role players. Especially if Ingram takes a leap forward.

Man... I would vomit so much for so long.

 

[Hoop Head]

Glad to see the Warriors win. I imagine having a 3-1 lead was something they weren't too pleased with. I get why some people are mad that Durant signed in GS but they had the cap space to pull it off. Meanwhile nothing is mentioned about Cleveland having the highest payroll in the league that added multiple pieces throughout the year trying to gear up for the playoffs. I know Korver and Deron Williams are on the downside of their careers but they're both former All Stars and were brought in to play specific roles. All Golden State did was replace Bogut and Barnes with KD, which is big, but they gave up size and depth to do it. Considering how bad Harrison Barnes was last finals though they needed an upgrade at SF and paying Barnes max money wouldn't have been the right move.

All sorts of talk about Cleveland trading Kevin Love but I think they should look to trade Kyrie instead. I saw one rumor they're considering a deal with the Pelicans that would be Love for Cousins, here is that. I don't see that helping them much against a team like the Warriors though. Their best bet is to add size and keeping Love is a part of that. Love fits well along side James but Kyrie is too ball dominant, which he can get away with next to James but he's also a poor defender. Love is a solid #3 option and he seems to embrace that role with Cleveland. I don't think Kyrie is versatile enough in today's NBA to be a quality #2 option on a legit title contender when Golden State is the team to beat, especially since he has trouble conceding to the #1 option in James. If they could bring in a wing like Jimmy Butler or Paul George to play with Lebron and Love and found a defensive minded PG to guard Curry, I think they could really challenge GS. They'd match up better against them. I wouldn't mind seeing Cleveland send Love to New York for Carmelo and then imploding. That would be the worst move they could make to try and catch up to GS.

 

[sunsfan88]

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I need to rewatch yesterday's game, looks like 'Bron may have got kicked or hit in the head by Draymond or someone else at some point during the game

 

[sunsfan88]

Anyone else happy for Nash? He finally gets that championship ring

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[leclerc]

Bronbron, what about the Miami rig? That's pretty close to a super team when you get three all stars on one team.

 

[leclerc]

If they could bring in a wing like Jimmy Butler or Paul George to play with Lebron and Love and found a defensive minded PG to guard Curry, I think they could really challenge GS. They'd match up better against them.

That should be a really good team and would make the finals next year more interesting.

 

[Russ Smith]

Bronbron, what about the Miami rig? That's pretty close to a super team when you get three all stars on one team.

Not to mention only 1 of the 3 stars was homegrown where Durant joined a team that had drafted all of Curry, Thompson and Green.

Durant criticized LeBron when he went to Miami and then got blasted when he signed with the Warriors. now LeBron is clearly ripping Durant so they both are making the same mistake.

The parade in Oakland should be fascinating I am guessing the entire Warriors team wears "ultimate warrior" t shirts to take a shot back at Lebron

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Bronbron, what about the Miami rig? That's pretty close to a super team when you get three all stars on one team.

"Prettt close?!?" Those Miami teams were the ORIGINATION of the super team!

 

[Ronin]

Ben Cafardo @Ben_ESPN

Last night's 16.0 for #NBAFinals Game 5 is the highest-rated NBA game (Non-Game 7) in @ABCNetwork and @ESPN history.

 

[Hoop Head]

"Prettt close?!?" Those Miami teams were the ORIGINATION of the super team!

I wouldn't say they were the original or first super team, I think that goes to the Lakers in 2003-04 when they brought in Malone and Payton to play with Shaq and Kobe. That team imploded because of ego's though. After that I think the Celtics would qualify as a super team when they got Garnett and Allen to team with Pierce. They traded a lot of young talent to bring those guys in though. Miami was different than any other "super team" before though because it was a case of 3 of the best players in the league joining together in their prime to play together, they deliberately set out to do that with how they structured their previous contracts. They even took discounts to make it happen.

The Cavs are definitely a super team now though, just as much as the Warriors. Lebron has been playing GM since he's returned to get players there for any and every role possible. Depending on the moves they make this offseason they're solidify themselves as even more of a super team because there is no way that Lebron will let them go into next season with the same roster. They'll make at least 1 big move to bring another All-Star, what they give up is questionable but they'll definitely add a piece somehow. Probably by trading Love but they could move Tristan Thompson, JR Smith, Frye, and/or Shumpert. They don't have that many players under contract for next year so their options aren't that great outside of moving one of their big 3.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Come on LeBron. I never played for a super team? The Warriors are a super-duper team to the next level, but the Heat were DEFINITELY a super team. That's just stupid.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I wouldn't say they were the original or first super team, I think that goes to the Lakers in 2003-04 when they brought in Malone and Payton to play with Shaq and Kobe. That team imploded because of ego's though. After that I think the Celtics would qualify as a super team when they got Garnett and Allen to team with Pierce. They traded a lot of young talent to bring those guys in though. Miami was different than any other "super team" before though because it was a case of 3 of the best players in the league joining together in their prime to play together, they deliberately set out to do that with how they structured their previous contracts. They even took discounts to make it happen.

The Cavs are definitely a super team now though, just as much as the Warriors. Lebron has been playing GM since he's returned to get players there for any and every role possible. Depending on the moves they make this offseason they're solidify themselves as even more of a super team because there is no way that Lebron will let them go into next season with the same roster. They'll make at least 1 big move to bring another All-Star, what they give up is questionable but they'll definitely add a piece somehow. Probably by trading Love but they could move Tristan Thompson, JR Smith, Frye, and/or Shumpert. They don't have that many players under contract for next year so their options aren't that great outside of moving one of their big 3.

Can't agree with the lakers example. Malone and Payton were done at that point.

Celtics, yes. But that was a gm being savvy. I look at super teams as those that are purposefully gamed by the players to create super teams. Miami and Durant to GS are really only ones so far in my mind.

 

[SirStefan32]

Can't agree with the lakers example. Malone and Payton were done at that point.

Celtics, yes. But that was a gm being savvy. I look at super teams as those that are purposefully gamed by the players to create super teams. Miami and Durant to GS are really only ones so far in my mind.

I agree. Malone and Payton reminds me of Barkley and Pippen joining Olajuwon in Houston.
Caltics are different too- those were two trades. Miami was the first example of player collusion that I can think of.

Edit: Boston is actually different in two ways. They had to give up something to get the two additional stars, and neither one of their big 3 (or 4, depending on how you look at it) were top-three or even top-five players. They were all very good, but not the best of the best.
Going from memory, top five were probably Kobe, Nash, Duncan, Dirk, and then TMac, Yao, Amare in the same group as KG, and Pierce. Lebron was there too, though very young. Billups was still pretty good at that time if I remember correctly, as well as Wade.

 

[BigRedRage]

Figures, we got home at 3 and found out the cable was out and had been since 11 am. We missed the entire game, had to listen on my phone. Finally came on about 10pm after the game ended.

Glad they won, wish I had been able to watch.

I think someone mentioned it here before but there are apparently rumors LeBron wants to opt out and join the Lakers, apparently not happy with the roster, the GM or the coach. I don't know their cap situation but I have to think that would be terrible for the NBA. Boston isn't going to get enough in the draft to challenge the Warriors soon so if LeBron goes to the West, the East has no challenger.

no rabbit ears?

 

[Hoop Head]

I guess I view "super teams" differently. It's who is on the team, not how it's put together, that makes it a super team. I agree with what most everyone said though, the Celtics assembled their team by the rules, anyone could have done something similar at the time. The Miami teams Lebron formed were definitely super teams though and they were assembled in a shady manner. He has a super team in Cleveland now also, and the making of that is questionable but above board IMO. He's definitely been playing GM since he's returned. I don't see anything wrong with how Golden State assembled their team either considering they had the chance to sign a former MVP in his prime who happened to fill a position they needed an upgrade at. They definitely made the right move paying Durant the max vs the Barnes, whose max deal would have been a lot less than Durant but would still have been costly. KD's play definitely warrants the discrepancy between his salary and Harrison Barnes.

I can't believe Lebron thinks he hasn't played for a super team though, that's insane. Everyone made a big deal about the super team he formed in Miami and he even did the whole "Not 3, not 4, but 5 or 6 rings" deal then. I wonder if he considered how the Cavs would look around when his first contract would be up. He surely knew they'd be awful for a few years so if he decided to return after his run in Miami they'd have a lot of young talent and financial flexibility. I don't think there was any collusion though to set them up for his return. The Cav's managed to get insanely lucky though, scoring 3 #1 overall picks in the 4 years he was gone. That put them in position to retool for his return, whether with youth or trading for "win-now" players like they did. Had the Heat won each year that Lebron was there though I don't think he would have left Miami. It wasn't as easy as he'd expected it to be and I don't think he realized how much of a villain moving to Miami would make him, either. Having the big 3 with the Heat cost that team a lot of money and also kept them from developing any quality young players. In a market that size they didn't have the cash to keep reloading that team around their big 3 though. Riley wasn't willing to lose $30-50 million a season like Dan Gilbert is in Cleveland either. The only reason Gilbert's ok with losing that money though is because he's had to deal with that team in those 4 years without Lebron, when I'm sure they were losing some money and attendance was awful. Now he's viewed as a good guy since he brought Lebron "home" and also bought last year's title.

 

[Ronin]

Milwaukee Bucks @Bucks

The Warriors had the 2nd-largest average scoring margin (13.5) for a single postseason, behind only the 1971 @NBA Champion Bucks (14.5)!!

 

[leclerc]

"Prettt close?!?" Those Miami teams were the ORIGINATION of the super team!

Boston got good in a hurry when big ticket and that smooth shooter joined the truth. Those were all stars as well, yes?