The 2019-2020 Around the NBA thread

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yes they are and they've parted ways with some other key players too over the past few years but still, they've made the playoffs for 6 straight seasons while averaging 53 wins per year. And they trailed only the Warriors for best record the season prior to Kawhi and Green.

. . . when they had derozen. Come on, anyone that expected that team to be 8-3 this year was a huge outlier. And that start still may be. But siakam taking the leap to superstar makes that look legit.

 

[Mainstreet]

Siakem became a true superstar. 27pts 9reb 4assists per game through the 11 games. Kinda chuckling about the folks on here that equated Siakem to oubre.

I made have made the comments you are referring too but I find nothing to chuckle about.

See below:

When I multiply 4 x $30 million and it's more, I am in awe!

Kelly Oubre had similar stats.

He is the Raptors future though.

A player needs the right opportunity to prove himself. We will see where Oubre is in two years.

Oubre is 23 and Siakam is 25.

As I said then, Siakam is the Raptors future.

Oubre may never approach Siakam's talent (they play different positions) but this doesn't change Siakam is two years older either.


https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/f...nd-the-nba-thread.315756/page-31#post-4064334

 

[Mainstreet]

Yes they are and they've parted ways with some other key players too over the past few years but still, they've made the playoffs for 6 straight seasons while averaging 53 wins per year. And they trailed only the Warriors for best record the season prior to Kawhi and Green.

The Raptors are a good organization with a lot of kudos to Masai Ujiri.

 

[Mainstreet]

Toronto is a good team. They did win the title after all. Yes, they had Kawai, but they must have had good players to get that far.

IMO, the surprise so far is still our Suns.

I see this has already been answered. Raptors have a great organization which has helped.

Agree the Suns have surprised early.

 

[AzStevenCal]

. . . when they had derozen. Come on, anyone that expected that team to be 8-3 this year was a huge outlier. And that start still may be. But siakam taking the leap to superstar makes that look legit.

I thought they'd be in the running again for home court just like they have been for the past several years. That is a very well run and stable organization, much like Miami IMO, so I never fully count them out.

Right now though, IMO, their record makes them look better than they are. The Lakers win is big for them but the teams they have beaten are 33-52 (2 over New Orleans, 1 over the Blake-less Pistons, wins over Chicago, Orlando, Sacramento etc). Their overall opponent record looks decent but it's due to their 3 losses to teams that are a combined 23 - 8.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Toronto is a good team. They did win the title after all. Yes, they had Kawai, but they must have had good players to get that far.

IMO, the surprise so far is still our Suns.

I don't know who is the biggest surprise but to me it's either us or the Heat with Portland being the biggest surprise the other way. Toronto is playing well despite Lowry now being out but other than the Lakers, I don't see a win on their schedule that is in any way surprising.

 

[Mainstreet]

Portland signing Carmelo Anthony reportedly to a non-guaranteed deal. The Trail Blazers have struggled and are 4-8 for the season.

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[Hoop Head]

I don't know who is the biggest surprise but to me it's either us or the Heat with Portland being the biggest surprise the other way. Toronto is playing well despite Lowry now being out but other than the Lakers, I don't see a win on their schedule that is in any way surprising.

I've looked forward to the bottom falling out in Portland for a while because I always hoped the Suns could make a move for Lillard but they're out of youngsters with potential now. They could trade either Ayton or Bridges in a package for him but that makes the Suns a bit older and changes their future quite a bit. I don't know if swapping Rubio for Lillard would improve this team much right now either. Sure, Lillard is a far better player and a dark horse MVP candidate most years but Rubio seems to fit this system perfectly. I wouldn't say no to a Lillard/Rubio swap but I wouldn't be the one making that phone call if I were the Suns GM.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Portland signing Carmelo Anthony reportedly to a non-guaranteed deal. The Trail Blazers have struggled and are 4-8 for the season.

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yeah... this'll really the answer to their problems.

not.

 

[Mainstreet]

yeah... this'll really the answer to their problems.

not.

When drowning, one will grasp at anything. I guess losing Zach Collins is hurting them more than expected. Still I believe they will straighten it out.

Getting Nurkic back will help.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Portland signing Carmelo Anthony reportedly to a non-guaranteed deal. The Trail Blazers have struggled and are 4-8 for the season.

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Yeah. We that’ll help.

 

[AzStevenCal]

When drowning, one will grasp at anything. I guess losing Zach Collins is hurting them more than expected. Still I believe they will straighten it out.

Getting Nurkic back will help.

That was a pretty bad injury, I can't imagine he'll help them much this year once he does return. My information might be outdated but I remember reading during the offseason that he likely wouldn't be back until after the All Star break.

 

[Hoop Head]

I find it odd how Melo is constantly referred to as a "future hall of famer" when he's discussed. Last year he couldn't find a team to take a chance on him and he couldn't find a home during the offseason either. This deal with Denver is non-guaranteed and for the league minimum so money wasn't a holdup, it seems. The only reason the Blazers are gambling on him now is their season has started pretty bad and they need to try something since they won't get real help, in the form of Nurkic, until around the All-Star break. So I'm curious, how is it that someone who can't find a team to play him while he's still relatively young enough to contribute a surefire hall of famer?

I don't think he's a lock, personally. He will probably make it but it wouldn't surprise me if it took until his 2nd or 3rd year of eligibility.

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As far as his age is concerned, he's 35 now and was 34 when waived by the Rockets. He doesn't have a lot of NBA miles on him either since his playoff run in OKC was the first time he'd made the postseason in 5 years, having failed to get there 4 seasons in a row. If it wasn't for his time in OKC, he wouldn't have played in a playoff game since he hit 30. The last year the Knicks made it they won their division and finished 54-28 while beating the Pacers in the 1st round and losing to Boston in 6 games in the 2nd. The following season they finished 37-45 and started their playoff drought. They retained 4 of their 5 starters from the previous year as well, only losing Jason Kidd to retirement. They had the same coach also, Mike Woodson, so their falling apart falls on someone's shoulders and their star player is likely the reason.

 

[Mainstreet]

That was a pretty bad injury, I can't imagine he'll help them much this year once he does return. My information might be outdated but I remember reading during the offseason that he likely wouldn't be back until after the All Star break.

I was probably being too optimistic.

 

[95pro]

I find it odd how Melo is constantly referred to as a "future hall of famer" when he's discussed. Last year he couldn't find a team to take a chance on him and he couldn't find a home during the offseason either. This deal with Denver is non-guaranteed and for the league minimum so money wasn't a holdup, it seems. The only reason the Blazers are gambling on him now is their season has started pretty bad and they need to try something since they won't get real help, in the form of Nurkic, until around the All-Star break. So I'm curious, how is it that someone who can't find a team to play him while he's still relatively young enough to contribute a surefire hall of famer?

I don't think he's a lock, personally. He will probably make it but it wouldn't surprise me if it took until his 2nd or 3rd year of eligibility.

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As far as his age is concerned, he's 35 now and was 34 when waived by the Rockets. He doesn't have a lot of NBA miles on him either since his playoff run in OKC was the first time he'd made the postseason in 5 years, having failed to get there 4 seasons in a row. If it wasn't for his time in OKC, he wouldn't have played in a playoff game since he hit 30. The last year the Knicks made it they won their division and finished 54-28 while beating the Pacers in the 1st round and losing to Boston in 6 games in the 2nd. The following season they finished 37-45 and started their playoff drought. They retained 4 of their 5 starters from the previous year as well, only losing Jason Kidd to retirement. They had the same coach also, Mike Woodson, so their falling apart falls on someone's shoulders and their star player is likely the reason.

College and team USA accolades.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I find it odd how Melo is constantly referred to as a "future hall of famer" when he's discussed. Last year he couldn't find a team to take a chance on him and he couldn't find a home during the offseason either. This deal with Denver is non-guaranteed and for the league minimum so money wasn't a holdup, it seems. The only reason the Blazers are gambling on him now is their season has started pretty bad and they need to try something since they won't get real help, in the form of Nurkic, until around the All-Star break. So I'm curious, how is it that someone who can't find a team to play him while he's still relatively young enough to contribute a surefire hall of famer?

I don't think he's a lock, personally. He will probably make it but it wouldn't surprise me if it took until his 2nd or 3rd year of eligibility.

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As far as his age is concerned, he's 35 now and was 34 when waived by the Rockets. He doesn't have a lot of NBA miles on him either since his playoff run in OKC was the first time he'd made the postseason in 5 years, having failed to get there 4 seasons in a row. If it wasn't for his time in OKC, he wouldn't have played in a playoff game since he hit 30. The last year the Knicks made it they won their division and finished 54-28 while beating the Pacers in the 1st round and losing to Boston in 6 games in the 2nd. The following season they finished 37-45 and started their playoff drought. They retained 4 of their 5 starters from the previous year as well, only losing Jason Kidd to retirement. They had the same coach also, Mike Woodson, so their falling apart falls on someone's shoulders and their star player is likely the reason.

He frustrates me too but barring nuclear devastation or alien intervention, he is a first year lock for the Hall of Fame. Even ignoring his pre-NBA accolades, he'll get in easily just on his NBA career. Tom Chambers is the leading all time scorer for eligible players that are not in the Hall of Fame. He is 43rd on the all time list - Carmelo is in the top 20 for all time scorers. Matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Melo is vying for a comeback so he can maintain his very slim scoring lead over Vince Carter who is 20th all time.

I've never liked him as a player but other players routinely named him the hardest or one of the hardest players to defend. We get wrapped up in the idea that one person makes a team and that if they can't carry that team anywhere they must be putting up empty stats. But that's a fan based delusion and we all seem to succumb to it at times - in reality this is a team game and there is no such thing as empty stats.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I find it odd how Melo is constantly referred to as a "future hall of famer" when he's discussed.

I already responded but wanted to add one more thing. Your post reminds me of a similar rant by me about 20 years ago on the same subject but regarding Mighty Mouth. IMO, Reggie Miller is the most overrated NBA player of my lifetime. I was absolutely positive that the HOF would laugh him out of contention. Obviously, I was wrong.

The guy averaged 18, 3 and 3 for his career and even his best year was just 24, 4 and 4. Considering that scoring was clearly his strength, those are solid but hardly HOF numbers. But his huge games and big moment shots in the Garden probably sealed his nomination and Melo might have that going for him too.

 

[Folster]

I find it odd how Melo is constantly referred to as a "future hall of famer" when he's discussed.

Remember that it's the basketball Hall of Fame and not the NBA Hall of Fame. Carmelo had a stellar championship run at Syracuse and a couple gold medal runs with the team USA.

Many guys with less than stellar NBA careers got in off the back of their college run. Bobby Hurley, Christian Laettner, I could go on.

 

[Raindog]

Remember that it's the basketball Hall of Fame and not the NBA Hall of Fame. Carmelo had a stellar championship run at Syracuse and a couple gold medal runs with the team USA.

Many guys with less than stellar NBA careers got in off the back of their college run. Bobby Hurley, Christian Laettner, I could go on.

Yeah, a lot of people seem to forget that. Many guys in the hall who got in on the strength of their college career as much or more than on their NBA qualifications.

Not to mention all those college coaches and female and foreign players who never played in the NBA.

Although, Hurley isn't in the HOF (yet, who knows if later), and Laettner is only in as a member of the Dream Team, who were collectively elected as an "all-time great team."

 

[BC867]

I find it odd how Melo is constantly referred to as a "future hall of famer" when he's discussed. Last year he couldn't find a team to take a chance on him and he couldn't find a home during the offseason either

All Hall of Famers start out as future HOF. Because of the waiting period.

What a HOF candidate does during his declining years has nothing to do
with his chances of making it. You earn it in your prime.

BTW, I am not advocating Anthony making or not making the Hall.

Just pointing out that what he's done lately will have no bearing on it.

 

[SirStefan32]

Good night for the Suns! Spurs, Wolves, and Jazz all lost.

 

[GatorAZ]

I already responded but wanted to add one more thing. Your post reminds me of a similar rant by me about 20 years ago on the same subject but regarding Mighty Mouth. IMO, Reggie Miller is the most overrated NBA player of my lifetime. I was absolutely positive that the HOF would laugh him out of contention. Obviously, I was wrong.

The guy averaged 18, 3 and 3 for his career and even his best year was just 24, 4 and 4. Considering that scoring was clearly his strength, those are solid but hardly HOF numbers. But his huge games and big moment shots in the Garden probably sealed his nomination and Melo might have that going for him too.

Melo and Reggie were similar in a lot of ways. Neither were superstars but both were productive for a long time and the best player on a lot of winning teams. Granted a lot of Reggie’s playoff wins came when Jordan was playing baseball and then the early-2000’s when the East was a joke. He’s always been considered a top-5 shooter all time so that label holds merit.

I’m not sure Melo ever lost a series in which Denver or NY were the better team but I suppose that’s why he wasn’t a superstar...

 

[Finito]

Melo and Reggie were similar in a lot of ways. Neither were superstars but both were productive for a long time and the best player on a lot of winning teams. Granted a lot of Reggie’s playoff wins came when Jordan was playing baseball and then the early-2000’s when the East was a joke. He’s always been considered a top-5 shooter all time so that label holds merit.

I’m not sure Melo ever lost a series in which Denver or NY were the better team but I suppose that’s why he wasn’t a superstar...

the East was far from a joke when Miller was in his prime in the mid 90s and he definitely had plenty of battles with Jordan.

I disagree I look at Reggie like I look at Ray Allen he’s a superstar just not that eye popping star. Do you feel comfortable with him taking the last shot with it all on the line? Plenty of “signature moments”

I honestly can’t think of one Carmelo moment where the basketball world stopped and said wow look at Melo. I look at Melo like I look at Joe Johnson just a compiler. A lot of stuff that looks good on paper

 

[GatorAZ]

the East was far from a joke when Miller was in his prime in the mid 90s and he definitely had plenty of battles with Jordan.

I disagree I look at Reggie like I look at Ray Allen he’s a superstar just not that eye popping star. Do you feel comfortable with him taking the last shot with it all on the line? Plenty of “signature moments”

I honestly can’t think of one Carmelo moment where the basketball world stopped and said wow look at Melo. I look at Melo like I look at Joe Johnson just a compiler. A lot of stuff that looks good on paper

Reggie Miller wasn’t a superstar. Not even close.

You can’t only be elite at one aspect of the game and be considered an elite player. He was a great scorer with excellent efficiency but limited offensively. Wasn’t a creator for other and wasn’t the type of player that could create his own offense off the dribble like other elite scorers did. He was average at everything else. Never made 1st/2nd team all nba... That said he had some big moments in the playoffs and deserving HOF but never a true superstar/MVP type player due to limitations.

And Ray was much better IMO...

 

[GatorAZ]

Ja Morant is something. Reminds me of young D-Rose.

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