The 2019-2020 Around the NBA thread

[Chaplin]

I knew the Rockets were going to lose the protest with NBA Commissioner David Stern... oops I meant Adam Silver.

Come on, Silver isn’t the best, but his reasoning for NOT granting the appeal is pretty sound.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Come on, Silver isn’t the best, but his reasoning for NOT granting the appeal is pretty sound.

agreed. and Silver is a hell of a lot better than Stern was. There's no comparison there as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Mainstreet]

Come on, Silver isn’t the best, but his reasoning for NOT granting the appeal is pretty sound.

What's a field goal anyway. How many games are lost by 1 or 2 points?

The referees made an egregious mistake by not counting the field and the league office is good with it less a little discipline for the referees who failed to review the play.

 

[Finito]

I was legitimately worried that the Jackson trade would blow up in the Suns faces, and it still could, but at this point it seems he's only given the people against the trade more reason to come around and see it as a positive thing.

I know I wanted Jackson in that draft and I wasn't alone, it sucks to be so far off. It sucks more because he has the talent to be a great player but his mental makeup has been his downfall.

I was on the phone with my brother yelling we were so excited that Jackson “fell” to us.

that was thought to be an amazing draft now looking back not so much. Fultz, Ball, Jackson all meh

 

[elindholm]

that was thought to be an amazing draft

It was? My memory is that there was a lot of discussion (here and nationally) about the weaknesses of the top four players. Fultz's amazing numbers didn't translate to victories, Ball had the ugliest shot in the history of basketball and a domineering headcase father/agent, Tatum lacked the explosiveness to be anything more than a solid role player, and Jackson was an "athlete" who didn't know how to play basketball. That doesn't scream "amazing draft" to me, and it's not revisionist history -- it's what people were saying at the time.

 

[Finito]

It was? My memory is that there was a lot of discussion (here and nationally) about the weaknesses of the top four players. Fultz's amazing numbers didn't translate to victories, Ball had the ugliest shot in the history of basketball and a domineering headcase father/agent, Tatum lacked the explosiveness to be anything more than a solid role player, and Jackson was an "athlete" who didn't know how to play basketball. That doesn't scream "amazing draft" to me, and it's not revisionist history -- it's what people were saying at the time.

I remember Fultz being compared to Westbrook a lot and Lonzo was the next Magic Johnson if you listened to a lot of the media. Tatum if not spectacular was thought to be very solid and Jackson had the highest upside of the bunch.

either way it sucked.

 

[Ronin]

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[Hoop Head]

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Shumpert wouldn't be a bad addition if we had a roster spot. We could use another wing who can defend and hit 3's. I'd prefer Shumpert to Tyler Johnson. It would lessen the blow of losing Tyler if/when he's dealt also. Oh well.

 

[elindholm]

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Whoa! He was a really hot property a few years ago.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It was? My memory is that there was a lot of discussion (here and nationally) about the weaknesses of the top four players. Fultz's amazing numbers didn't translate to victories, Ball had the ugliest shot in the history of basketball and a domineering headcase father/agent, Tatum lacked the explosiveness to be anything more than a solid role player, and Jackson was an "athlete" who didn't know how to play basketball. That doesn't scream "amazing draft" to me, and it's not revisionist history -- it's what people were saying at the time.

we must live in completely different universes because it's really not what they were saying at the time. they were comparing Jackson to Scottie Pippen, Ball was the next Jason Kidd, Fultz could be the next Westbrook, Tatum to be Paul Pierce-esque and even Fox had major upside but was considered much more risk than the 1st four.

 

[Phrazbit]

we must live in completely different universes because it's really not what they were saying at the time. they were comparing Jackson to Scottie Pippen, Ball was the next Jason Kidd, Fultz could be the next Westbrook, Tatum to be Paul Pierce-esque and even Fox had major upside but was considered much more risk than the 1st four.

I'm with elindholm on this one. There was hype around em but all of those warts that he brought up were widely discussed. Tatum was the low ceiling, high floor guy, Fultz was clearly explosive but seemed often disengaged and sat out part of the season with a minor injury, Jackson had made questionable choices on and off the court (but his ceiling was thought to be sky high) and Ball... was exactly as you both describe.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm with elindholm on this one. There was hype around em but all of those warts that he brought up were widely discussed. Tatum was the low ceiling, high floor guy, Fultz was clearly explosive but seemed often disengaged and sat out part of the season with a minor injury, Jackson had made questionable choices on and off the court (but his ceiling was thought to be sky high) and Ball... was exactly as you both describe.

yeah, people talked weaknesses, but that doesn't man people weren't super high on Ball and Fultz, very high on Jackson and lukewarm high on Tatum.

 

[Mainstreet]

The NBA will launch a G-League team in Mexico City for the 2020-21 season.


Shams Charania‏Verified account @ShamsCharania

The NBA will launch a G League team in Mexico starting the 2020-21 season. Commissioner Adam Silver is announcing the news in his press conference shortly.

5:00 PM - 12 Dec 2019

 

[Mainstreet]

Here is a link to the story at ESPN.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28286669/mexico-city-based-team-join-g-league-2020-21-season

 

[Mainstreet]

Shams Charania‏Verified account @ShamsCharania


NBA commissioner Adam Silver: “NBA Commissioner Emeritus David Stern suffered a sudden brain hemorrhage earlier today for which he underwent emergency surgery. Our thoughts and prayers are with David and his family.”

7:21 PM - 12 Dec 2019

 

[Western Font]

Back to the 2017 draft: my recollection is that it was viewed at the time as a very deep draft, compared to the typical lottery scenario. A great top four and don't sleep on the top ten. That's the surprise to me, that only one of the top four has really panned out.

 

[Mainstreet]

Back to the 2017 draft: my recollection is that it was viewed at the time as a very deep draft, compared to the typical lottery scenario. A great top four and don't sleep on the top ten. That's the surprise to me, that only one of the top four has really panned out.

I think Tatum, Fox and Markannen have worked out well out of the top ten picks.

 

[Finito]

I think Tatum, Fox and Markannen have worked out well out of the top ten picks.

My buddy in Chicago says Markannen is on the block but he says pretty much the whole roster is

 

[AzStevenCal]

My buddy in Chicago says Markannen is on the block but he says pretty much the whole roster is

I don't follow them enough to know what's going on but Lauri came out like gangbusters as a rookie and has gone downhill since then. Looking at his stats, I guess his defense has improved slightly but he seems to have dropped in almost every offensive category. Not surprisingly, his PER has also dropped, by almost 4 full points (17.1 to 13.3). I'd still be interested in him but unless we're sure his lack of development is the result of coaching or a resolvable injury issue, I don't know how much I'd part with in the process.

 

[Mainstreet]

My buddy in Chicago says Markannen is on the block but he says pretty much the whole roster is

I don't follow them enough to know what's going on but Lauri came out like gangbusters as a rookie and has gone downhill since then. Looking at his stats, I guess his defense has improved slightly but he seems to have dropped in almost every offensive category. Not surprisingly, his PER has also dropped, by almost 4 full points (17.1 to 13.3). I'd still be interested in him but unless we're sure his lack of development is the result of coaching or a resolvable injury issue, I don't know how much I'd part with in the process.

I can't say I have watched Markannen much but I think he is an example of the type player the Suns should look at to upgrade their roster. He is still young with tons of upside.

 

[hcsilla]

I'm with elindholm on this one. There was hype around em but all of those warts that he brought up were widely discussed. Tatum was the low ceiling, high floor guy, Fultz was clearly explosive but seemed often disengaged and sat out part of the season with a minor injury, Jackson had made questionable choices on and off the court (but his ceiling was thought to be sky high) and Ball... was exactly as you both describe.

I'm with cheesebeef on this one.

Fultz looked like the next Derrick Rose (in his prime) with a better jumpshot. He was big, super-athletic, unstoppable both in half-court and fastbreak, a solid passer with defensive potential.

I did see the next Jason Kidd in Lonzo Ball.

Tatum was a total enigma to me, a tall, polished offensive player who does nothing extraordinary. Jackson seemed a bit more promising prospect because of his athleticism.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm with cheesebeef on this one.

Fultz looked like the next Derrick Rose (in his prime) with a better jumpshot. He was big, super-athletic, unstoppable both in half-court and fastbreak, a solid passer with defensive potential.

I did see the next Jason Kidd in Lonzo Ball.

Tatum was a total enigma to me, a tall, polished offensive player who does nothing extraordinary. Jackson seemed a bit more promising prospect because of his athleticism.

If you just watched Fultz's highlights, yes, he seemed very much like the next great scoring point guard but I would disagree if you're talking about actual game play. His talent and skills were obvious but besides being on losing teams, his Washington teammates typically played better without him. I know we talked about those red flags here too although I would agree, the vast majority of the talk on him here and elsewhere was highly positive.

I thought Ball was going to be a superstar but wanted no part of him because of daddy and Lonzo's supposed desire to play only for LA. I'd say that he, out of all the top picks that season, was the most polarizing. It seems to me there were considerably more positive reviews of his play than negative but there was still an awful lot of concern over his screwy shot and his inability to hit from mid-range (IIRC).

I didn't care for his game at the time but I think Jackson was probably considered the safest of the top picks (purely as a player) but his off court behavior turned many of us away.

Tatum was projected as a plus player but I never heard anyone suggest he was headed for greatness. But I tend to ignore anyone from Duke until I absolutely can't ignore them so maybe I missed it.

 

[Raze]

I think Tatum, Fox and Markannen have worked out well out of the top ten picks.

... and Johnathan Isaac who is leading the league in bpg (2.8) and has a PER of 16.94 (Tatum: 17.10, Fox: 15.76, Lauri: 13.36). The 22 year old keeps getting better and better. Shooting has been his weak spot. (and Zach Collins got injured just as he was starting to show promise)

I was solidly in the camp that thought that 2017 draft was average-ish. I had JJ first mostly because I thought Ball and Fultz were trash (didn't have them in my top 10). Tatum was a superior offensive prospect who had a reciprocated defensive effort level; and a tweener game. Fox was a Defensive stud who attacked the rim but had a suspect shot.

Just to maintain a semblance of integrity I checked the archives before the draft and I wrote that my top 3 were: JJ, Fox, then Isaac. I thought the entire top 10 had major red flags including JJ. So I thought just like AzStevenCal that you might as well pick the greatest athlete who showed hustle and potential defensive prowess... aka JJ.

As we all know, JJ turned out to have zero common sense (which should now be one of the measurements acquired at the combine) and let our franchise and fan base down. He could still turn it around as his G league stats might attest, but he needs better people around him and a massive dose of maturity or he'll stay stupid. Waste of talent.

A few years later and it turns out we would have been better of drafting in the teens: Donovan, Bam, and John Collins.

BTW, I was probably Ball's harshest critic on here with that hideous shot and his lackluster defense. Turns out, he fixed both of them. That gives me a lot more hope for him to become a very good player. He even improved his FT% by about 20%. He still needs to prove he can increase his availability and become consistent, but his needle seems to be on the rise. I've been adamantly against trading for him, but I could be persuaded now. He would be a great back up to Ricky.

 

[Mainstreet]

... and Johnathan Isaac who is leading the league in bpg (2.8) and has a PER of 16.94 (Tatum: 17.10, Fox: 15.76, Lauri: 13.36). The 22 year old keeps getting better and better. Shooting has been his weak spot. (and Zach Collins got injured just as he was starting to show promise)

I was solidly in the camp that thought that 2017 draft was average-ish. I had JJ first mostly because I thought Ball and Fultz were trash (didn't have them in my top 10). Tatum was a superior offensive prospect who had a reciprocated defensive effort level; and a tweener game. Fox was a Defensive stud who attacked the rim but had a suspect shot.

Just to maintain a semblance of integrity I checked the archives before the draft and I wrote that my top 3 were: JJ, Fox, then Isaac. I thought the entire top 10 had major red flags including JJ. So I thought just like AzStevenCal that you might as well pick the greatest athlete who showed hustle and potential defensive prowess... aka JJ.

As we all know, JJ turned out to have zero common sense (which should now be one of the measurements acquired at the combine) and let our franchise and fan base down. He could still turn it around as his G league stats might attest, but he needs better people around him and a massive dose of maturity or he'll stay stupid. Waste of talent.

A few years later and it turns out we would have been better of drafting in the teens: Donovan, Bam, and John Collins.

BTW, I was probably Ball's harshest critic on here with that hideous shot and his lackluster defense. Turns out, he fixed both of them. That gives me a lot more hope for him to become a very good player. He even improved his FT% by about 20%. He still needs to prove he can increase his availability and become consistent, but his needle seems to be on the rise. I've been adamantly against trading for him, but I could be persuaded now. He would be a great back up to Ricky.

Like any draft it's getting the BPA. Teams really need to stick to this formula no matter the position.

I was in the Fox camp until it became clear the Suns were not gong to draft him. IIRC, AzStevenCal liked Markkanen. Anyway, it is what it is. Jackson could still end up being the player we thought he would be if he ever matures.

 

[Superbone]

He still needs to prove he can increase his availability and become consistent, but his needle seems to be on the rise.

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