The 2nd Team Defense: A Handful of Veterans and a Plethora of Youth

Mitch

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With yesterday's surprising releases of messers Hood and LaBoy, this is what the 2 Deep depth chart is behind the starters (with years of NFL experience):

LOLB: Haggans (9); Hobson (6)

LDE: Robinson (12); Leisle (3)

NT: Branch (2); Dykes (1)

RDE: Iwebema (1); Banks (1)

ROLB: Brown (R); Davis (R)

SILB: Togafau (2); Bullock (R)

WILB: Highsmith (1); Walker (R)

LCB: Toler (R); Fontenot (1)

FS: Johnson (R); Keyes (1)

SS: Francisco (4); Lewis (5)

RCB: Brown (9); Adams (2)

It's amazing what losing two of last year's starters does to the depth of this defense.

The questions I have at this point:

1. Is Bertrand Berry, at his age, going to be able to hold up as the starter at ROLB? It would seem that the ideal situation for him is to enter the game as a situational pass rusher. But, behind him are two rookies.

This scenario would suggest to me that the Cardinals desperately need to sign another potential starter at ROLB. Like DRC maybe Cody Brown can be ready to start about mid-season, but it's going to be harder for him one would think because he is learning a new position. By mid-season would Bertrand Berry be drained?

2. The depth at ILB is extremely thin. Can Pago Togafau start at SILB if Hayes gets hurt? Can Ali Highsmith start for Dansby in the same scenario? Neither one of those players has ever started an NFL game. Can Clark Haggans and/or Victor Hobson start on the inside if needed?

3. In the secondary I feel reasonably comfortable with Johnson, Francisco and Lewis as the backup safeties...that is...with Rashad Johnson at FS and Aaron Francisco where he belongs at SS. BTW, I think that Francisco was without question playing out of position last year as the nickel FS...because the Cardinals had noone else better when they wanted to move Rolle up to the nickel. AF plays much better when he's closer to the box and is still one of the best tacklers on the team.

However, how comfortable should we feel with Ralph Brown as the primary backup CB? It is going to take Greg Toler some time, most likely much more than DRC to be ready to start in a pinch, or so one would think. With Hood gone should the Cardinals pursue an experienced backup CB?

4. On the interior line...now that one looks at the depth it probaby makes sense to hold onto Bryan Robinson. I think I will need to redo my roster prediction (several of you--Garth, for one--made this good point yesterday)...unless Rodney Leisle has a very good camp and proves to be more productive than Robinson. I had somewhat forgotten about Leisle.

Messers Dykes and Banks are still PS eligible this year.

We might be debating this for a while but if you had known before and during the draft that Travis LaBoy was going to be released would you have wanted to address the pass rushing situation more aggressively in this draft? Carolina gave up their 2010 1st rounder to move into the middle of round 2 to take DE/OLB Everette Brown...and in the middle of that round other pass rushing 34OLBers like Connor Barwin, Paul Kruger and David Veikune were there as well. I am thinking that especially since the Cardinals elected to take Beanie Wells in the first round, they really needed to make a move the way Carolina did to take another 34OLB, even if it meant offering up their 2010 1st rounder.

Cody Brown was the best pick at #63...but waiting to take Will Davis deep into the 6th round is simply not enough to address the team need, IMO, especially knowing that LaBoy, the one younger OLB, was going to be released. Will Davis may develop nicely in a year or two, but he was struggling so much in one-on-one pass rushing drills at the Senior Bowl that it's hard to imagine Davis being ready to attack the edge versus NFL tackles anytime soon. Sure hope that's wrong...but it's most likely the case.

Right now, if the Cardinals really are in earnest about their chances this season, they need to make some creative moves...or get extremely lucky on the waiver wire during cuts...but...let's remember the Cardinals are next to last in the ability to make waiver wire claims, which means 30 teams will need to pass on a good player in order for the Cardinals to get lucky. The odds are not even close to being in their favor there---in fact, they should rule it out...which puts all the more pressure on being creative sooner rather than later.

The first two calls I would make would be to Jason Taylor and Roosevelt Colvin. Colvin as a starter at ROLB with Berry coming in in passing downs would be solid. And Taylor would be by far the best edge roster on the roster, and would be great for the rookies to learn from. And signing an ILB like Larry Foote would seem paramount....and would give the Cardinals some flexibility to move Dansby to WOLB at times to rush the edge.

Now that the CB depth has been compromised as well, the need for a pass rush is even more imminent. Hopefully the Cardinals have a couple of aces up their sleeve, because the defense this year has to be stronger, and not by just a little.
 
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LoyaltyisaCurse

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Its funny how it feels like our team is dominated by vets, but I think I saw something last month that stated the Cardinals were the 3rd or 4th youngest team even before yesterday's cuts (based on average age) in the entire NFL...
 

LoyaltyisaCurse

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This is also a reason I was so dismayed that we did not draft more help at the LB position... I pray they are going after Foote/Hill/Taylor/Colivin or a combination... The team will need to sign one more CB too IMO. But, where is the $$$ going to come from?
 
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Mitch

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Update: Darren Urban reported today that Clark Haggans is the projected starter opposite Okeafor and that in the Steelers' tradition they would stay on their respective sides and not flip-flop to strength of formation.

If that's the case, I think the better pass rusher Okeafor would be better utilized at ROLB, the backside pass rusher. When berry got hurt two years ago and they moved Chike over to the right side, he played very well there.

Man...we HAVE to sign Larry Foote...he want to play in Detroit, but they just drafted James Laurinaitis...and they don't play the 34.

Having Foote in the mix would be just what we need...and would give us the added veteran depth, a far greater comfort zone and the flexibility to move Karlos Dansby around, to send him after the QB.

We need a pass rush my friends.
 
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Mitch

Mitch

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This is also a reason I was so dismayed that we did not draft more help at the LB position... I pray they are going after Foote/Hill/Taylor/Colivin or a combination... The team will need to sign one more CB too IMO. But, where is the $$$ going to come from?

Exactly pal. Where oh where? But...we will see how seriously the FO takes us as contenders...moves HAVE to be made...
 

Duckjake

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Its funny how it feels like our team is dominated by vets, but I think I saw something last month that stated the Cardinals were the 3rd or 4th youngest team even before yesterday's cuts (based on average age) in the entire NFL...

What's even funnier is that during the two weeks before the Super Bowl I heard that the Cards had the most players who had been with the same team for the longest time in the entire NFL.

Maybe we just have younger veterans. Could happen if you draft a lot of guys who left school early.

Larry Fitzgerald is only 25 and is a five year veteran for instance.
 
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Man...we HAVE to sign Larry Foote...he want to play in Detroit, but they just drafted James Laurinaitis...and they don't play the 34.
Laurinaitis went to St. Louis Rams...

Foote would be a good pick-up!
 

Arizona's Finest

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Update: Darren Urban reported today that Clark Haggans is the projected starter opposite Okeafor and that in the Steelers' tradition they would stay on their respective sides and not flip-flop to strength of formation.

If that's the case, I think the better pass rusher Okeafor would be better utilized at ROLB, the backside pass rusher. When berry got hurt two years ago and they moved Chike over to the right side, he played very well there.

Man...we HAVE to sign Larry Foote...he want to play in Detroit, but they just drafted James Laurinaitis...and they don't play the 34.

Having Foote in the mix would be just what we need...and would give us the added veteran depth, a far greater comfort zone and the flexibility to move Karlos Dansby around, to send him after the QB.

We need a pass rush my friends.

Our division rivals the Rams just drafted Lauranitis. The Lions have Sims, and Peterson and then a bunch of floatsam. It would be nice if they had drafted Curry instead.

They did draft Deandre Levy and Zack Follett as MLB and OLB respectively but I am not sure thats not enough to not bring in Foote.
 
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Mitch

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Laurinaitis went to St. Louis Rams...

Foote would be a good pick-up!

You're right, my b.

Oh well...still want to outbid the Lions for Foote...that would be a great signing at this point...AND...if we could ink him to a 3 year deal, it would make it easier to absorb the dansby "splash" next year.
 
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Mitch

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Our division rivals the Rams just drafted Lauranitis. The Lions have Sims, and Peterson and then a bunch of floatsam. It would be nice if they had drafted Curry instead.

They did draft Deandre Levy and Zack Follett as MLB and OLB respectively but I am not sure thats not enough to not bring in Foote.

Thanks AF...good correction, you and Card Logic...
 

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Maybe they plan to bring AW down as OLB and use Rolle @ SS & Rashad @ FS Who knows.
 

Crazy Canuck

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How many sacks did Washington have last season?

How many sacks did Taylor have last season?

Why is Taylor still out of work?

When was Colvin released from the "chronic care" hospital?
 

cgolden

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Update: Darren Urban reported today that Clark Haggans is the projected starter opposite Okeafor and that in the Steelers' tradition they would stay on their respective sides and not flip-flop to strength of formation.

If that's the case, I think the better pass rusher Okeafor would be better utilized at ROLB, the backside pass rusher. When berry got hurt two years ago and they moved Chike over to the right side, he played very well there.

Man...we HAVE to sign Larry Foote...he want to play in Detroit, but they just drafted James Laurinaitis...and they don't play the 34.

Having Foote in the mix would be just what we need...and would give us the added veteran depth, a far greater comfort zone and the flexibility to move Karlos Dansby around, to send him after the QB.

We need a pass rush my friends.

YIKES!!:eek:

Haggans was not a very good starter his last year in Pittsburgh and they'll have to find a way to limit his snaps or he'll wear down really quickly. Hopefully Berry and Brown rotate with Haggans enough to keep him fresh.
 

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If that's the case, I think the better pass rusher Okeafor would be better utilized at ROLB, the backside pass rusher. When berry got hurt two years ago and they moved Chike over to the right side, he played very well there.

Very, very good point. Chike was a beast the last half of the seasons when Berry would do his annual trip to the IR list.
 

joeshmo

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YIKES!!:eek:

Haggans was not a very good starter his last year in Pittsburgh and they'll have to find a way to limit his snaps or he'll wear down really quickly. Hopefully Berry and Brown rotate with Haggans enough to keep him fresh.

I have no doubt there will be a heavy rotation keeping the whole front 7 fresh, except for maybe the ILB spots who have no one to rotate with.

But here is why it makes sense for Haggans to be the starter over Berry and the rookie Brown right now. We no longer line up are OLB's based on where the TE is at. They will just line up left and right, meaning both OLB's are going to have to have some coverage abilities becuase no longer do we have the predator LB line up opposite of the TE having to not worry about coverage duties. Both LB's now have to worry about it. So it makes sense they start their more complete LB's in Haggans and Okeafer, where Berry and Brown at this point in time are one dimensional pass rushers.
 

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I have no doubt there will be a heavy rotation keeping the whole front 7 fresh, except for maybe the ILB spots who have no one to rotate with.

But here is why it makes sense for Haggans to be the starter over Berry and the rookie Brown right now. We no longer line up are OLB's based on where the TE is at. They will just line up left and right, meaning both OLB's are going to have to have some coverage abilities becuase no longer do we have the predator LB line up opposite of the TE having to not worry about coverage duties. Both LB's now have to worry about it. So it makes sense they start their more complete LB's in Haggans and Okeafer, where Berry and Brown at this point in time are one dimensional pass rushers.

Yea, I figured it made sense but it's scary to think that our OLBs, which is arguably the most important position in a 3-4, are a combined 65 years old. Haggans and Okeafor as really the only options though so they don't really have any other choice.

I do wonder how they'll use Berry and Brown though. Will they just be on the field in obvious pass situations, because surely teams will pick on the fact that they're not going to drop into coverage (or at least are very poor at doing so). Maybe Bill Davis should study how the Steelers used LaMarr Woodley a couple of years ago when he was a second round pick and Haggans backup.
 

JeffGollin

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Wait a minute here...

Mitch - Your analysis is extremely well-done and thorough but it sets up a meaningless comparison - i.e. Youth vs. Veteran Experience.

Consider the probable Cardinals' offensive and defensive starting lineup: It's a mixture of older vets, younger vets and 3 rookies from last year.

The way Wiz does business, it doesn't matter if you're a seasoned veteran or a rookie - best guy starts. Hightower, Campbell and DRC were all rooks. Breaston, Deuce, Levi B had less than three-years experience. If KW hadn't played so well, Leinart would be our starter.

Youth or age doesn't matter.

I'm assuming you set up your chart to support your position that the Cardinals need to make more moves to improve their roster, but your 2nd and 3rd level depth chart would be better served if it somehow classified players as having A, B, C or D talent for the position.

The observation that the loss of LaBoy and Hood hurts our depth is, perhaps, a valid one. The reason I say "perhaps" is because we won't know how well draft picks like Cody Brown, Will Smith or Toler will do...or for that matter, if any UDFA's may pleasantly surprise us.

But, given our need to redo the contracts of a few core players, given our cap situation, I'm inclined to believe that in this unique situation: "contracts trump depth" (if indeed, depth turns out to be a problem).
 
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