The Athletic ranks NFL offenses for 2020

[daves]

https://theathletic.com/1965728/202...fense-from-1-to-32-going-into-the-2020-season

1. Kansas City Chiefs
Last year: 3rd

2. Baltimore Ravens
Last year: 1st

3. New Orleans Saints
Last year: 4th

4. Dallas Cowboys
Last year: 2nd

5. Seattle Seahawks
Last year: 5th

6. San Francisco 49ers
Last year: 7th

7. Arizona Cardinals
Last year: 13th
You didn’t think we were just going to go chalk, did you? This ranking will surprise some, but it shouldn’t. Last year, Kliff Kingsbury was getting used to life in the NFL, Kyler Murray was a rookie, Kenyan Drake played only half the season, and the Cardinals had a below-average group of receivers. Yet they still finished 13th in efficiency. Year two with Kingsbury and Murray brings the addition of a true number one wide receiver in DeAndre Hopkins. In some ways, the Cardinals are built like a modern NBA offense. Instead of layups and three-pointers, it’s wide receiver screens combined with an efficient run game and downfield bombs. Murray threw perhaps the most aesthetically-pleasing deep ball in the league last year, and Kingsbury moved from 10 personnel (one RB, no TEs, four WRs) to more 11 (one RB, one TE, three WRs) and 12 (one RB, two TEs, two WRs) personnel in the second half of the season. It’s reasonable to think that Kingsbury and Murray will continue to improve, and Hopkins will make everyone around him better. This group is poised for a big leap in 2020.

19. Los Angeles Rams
Last year: 17th

...dave

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Our division is so stupid good

 

[TaylorSwift]

I will say this, it feels different than the Browns hype. Cardinals seem a bit more focused. Larry doesn't have forever so I believe there is a sense of urgency

 

[daves]

Our division is so stupid good

Indeed! I edited my original post to add in the Rams' ramking.

...dave

 

[Zeno]

The potential is there for this team, that is for certain. I hope we have a entertaining season.

 

[Chopper0080]

I will say this, it feels different than the Browns hype. Cardinals seem a bit more focused. Larry doesn't have forever so I believe there is a sense of urgency

We dont have a new HC, new-ish system, and a bunch of new pieces. Organizational dysfunction is what derailed the Browns.

 

[football karma]

flip side: the Cards play a lot of bad offenses ( AFC east and NFC East)

 

[Solar7]

We dont have a new HC, new-ish system, and a bunch of new pieces. Organizational dysfunction is what derailed the Browns.

I disagree on most points here.

Our HC and system are still very new. One season is barely anything. I think we have a bunch of new pieces. Hopkins, Drake only has 8 games under his belt, our LB corps is very different, our DL is very different, our starting CBs will be very different...

Now, I don't think we have the potentially negative personalities the Browns did, so that's something, but still.

 

[Chopper0080]

I disagree on most points here.

Our HC and system are still very new. One season is barely anything. I think we have a bunch of new pieces. Hopkins, Drake only has 8 games under his belt, our LB corps is very different, our DL is very different, our starting CBs will be very different...

Now, I don't think we have the potentially negative personalities the Browns did, so that's something, but still.

1 year experience vs 0.

Same offensive system vs new offensive system.

Hopkins vs Odell...I would argue there is a documented difference in behavior and drama there.

We didn't trade our best lineman...the Browns did.

Stayed a 3-4 vs changed to a 4-3 from a 3-4.

If you are disagreeing you are being disingenuous because the situations are very different.

And if your argument is that having a year of learning something isn't a significant advantage over learning something completely new...I think you are looking to be argumentative as well.

How are our starting CBs different, the same top 3 CBs are on our roster now that were on our roster at this time last year but with a year spent learning the system.

LBs...Reddick, Jones, Hicks, and all of the backups are the same.

We have essentially three starters, Kennard, Campbell, and Phillips on defense who were not on our roster last year.

On offense, it is just Hopkins who is new and Cole taking on a larger role.

Come on.

 

[GuernseyCard]

I disagree on most points here.

Our HC and system are still very new. One season is barely anything. I think we have a bunch of new pieces. Hopkins, Drake only has 8 games under his belt, our LB corps is very different, our DL is very different, our starting CBs will be very different...

Now, I don't think we have the potentially negative personalities the Browns did, so that's something, but still.

Our HC and system is relatively new, not "very" and a training camp, and a full season under that system can't be described as "barely" anything. All your other "differences" are in fact major improvements until proven differently.

 

[Solar7]

1 year experience vs 0.

Same offensive system vs new offensive system.

Hopkins vs Odell...I would argue there is a documented difference in behavior and drama there.

We didn't trade our best lineman...the Browns did.

Stayed a 3-4 vs changed to a 4-3 from a 3-4.

If you are disagreeing you are being disingenuous because the situations are very different.

And if your argument is that having a year of learning something isn't a significant advantage over learning something completely new...I think you are looking to be argumentative as well.

How are our starting CBs different, the same top 3 CBs are on our roster now that were on our roster at this time last year but with a year spent learning the system.

LBs...Reddick, Jones, Hicks, and all of the backups are the same.

We have essentially three starters, Kennard, Campbell, and Phillips on defense who were not on our roster last year.

On offense, it is just Hopkins who is new and Cole taking on a larger role.

Come on.

Alright, you laid out "a bunch of new pieces" for the Browns. Let's be realistic here. Who are the major new pieces they added?

Odell Beckham Jr.
Kareem Hunt
Sheldon Richardson
Olivier Vernon

Am I missing anyone? They didn't have a 1st round pick, so...

Odell is on a similar level to Hopkins.
Hunt played in as many games as Kenyan Drake, and has much more of a resume, but still wasn't their starting RB.
Sheldon Richardson was on his 4th team. We're starting a $10m/year DT that got cut from Miami and had one good year.
Olivier Vernon is better than Devon Kinnard, barely but we also added Isaiah Simmons at LB.

The Browns played 2019 under a coach who had been a part of the team for all of 2018. It's not a huge difference.

We lost who is potentially our best lineman to an opt-out. Brand new center snapping the ball to our young QB.

We didn't change systems, but we were the worst defense in the NFL last year.

Our starting CBs are different in that Patrick Peterson played 10 games, our #2 played zero snaps (new). Byron Murphy is still unproven and will be a nickel back.

LBs. Kennard (new), Jones, Hicks, and either Simmons (new) or Campbell (new). We're replacing 50% of our linebackers.

Both of our DEs, whoever they turn out to be, have barely any experience playing in the system.

Our HC and system is relatively new, not "very" and a training camp, and a full season under that system can't be described as "barely" anything. All your other "differences" are in fact major improvements until proven differently.

No, they're non-factors until proven that it works, just like the Browns. People thought they'd be great, and they proved not to be. This was a 5-11 team with only two good wins.

Anything else is kool-aid. I want this team to win, and I think we'll be improved, but pretending we're leaps and bounds above the Browns of last year is nonsensical.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Alright, you laid out "a bunch of new pieces" for the Browns. Let's be realistic here. Who are the major new pieces they added?

Odell Beckham Jr.
Kareem Hunt
Sheldon Richardson
Olivier Vernon

Am I missing anyone? They didn't have a 1st round pick, so...

Odell is on a similar level to Hopkins.
Hunt played in as many games as Kenyan Drake, and has much more of a resume, but still wasn't their starting RB.
Sheldon Richardson was on his 4th team. We're starting a $10m/year DT that got cut from Miami and had one good year.
Olivier Vernon is better than Devon Kinnard, barely but we also added Isaiah Simmons at LB.

The Browns played 2019 under a coach who had been a part of the team for all of 2018. It's not a huge difference.

We lost who is potentially our best lineman to an opt-out. Brand new center snapping the ball to our young QB.

We didn't change systems, but we were the worst defense in the NFL last year.

Our starting CBs are different in that Patrick Peterson played 10 games, our #2 played zero snaps (new). Byron Murphy is still unproven and will be a nickel back.

LBs. Kennard (new), Jones, Hicks, and either Simmons (new) or Campbell (new). We're replacing 50% of our linebackers.

Both of our DEs, whoever they turn out to be, have barely any experience playing in the system.



No, they're non-factors until proven that it works, just like the Browns. People thought they'd be great, and they proved not to be. This was a 5-11 team with only two good wins.

Anything else is kool-aid. I want this team to win, and I think we'll be improved, but pretending we're leaps and bounds above the Browns of last year is nonsensical.

You evidently are confusing me with someone else.

I don't do "leaps and bounds", nor couch my opinions as if they are the final word as is your tendency.

To say that this team is better on paper than last year's 5-11 squad is self-evident and defensible.

 

[Solar7]

You evidently are confusing me with someone else.

I don't do "leaps and bounds", nor couch my opinions as if they are the final word as is your tendency.

To say that this team is better on paper than last year's 5-11 squad is self-evident and defensible.

Sorry, it was a combined reply to you and Chopper. I moderate on another board system, and combining posts is the way to go. It might not have made sense here.

I also think we'll be a lot better than last year. But I'm wary of situations where we can't possibly be the Browns. We're a bit of a darling right now, and I'd like to at least put a win on the board before we get too much into it.

 

[Chopper0080]

Alright, you laid out "a bunch of new pieces" for the Browns. Let's be realistic here. Who are the major new pieces they added?

Odell Beckham Jr.
Kareem Hunt
Sheldon Richardson
Olivier Vernon

Am I missing anyone? They didn't have a 1st round pick, so...

Odell is on a similar level to Hopkins.
Hunt played in as many games as Kenyan Drake, and has much more of a resume, but still wasn't their starting RB.
Sheldon Richardson was on his 4th team. We're starting a $10m/year DT that got cut from Miami and had one good year.
Olivier Vernon is better than Devon Kinnard, barely but we also added Isaiah Simmons at LB.

The Browns played 2019 under a coach who had been a part of the team for all of 2018. It's not a huge difference.

We lost who is potentially our best lineman to an opt-out. Brand new center snapping the ball to our young QB.

We didn't change systems, but we were the worst defense in the NFL last year.

Our starting CBs are different in that Patrick Peterson played 10 games, our #2 played zero snaps (new). Byron Murphy is still unproven and will be a nickel back.

LBs. Kennard (new), Jones, Hicks, and either Simmons (new) or Campbell (new). We're replacing 50% of our linebackers.

Both of our DEs, whoever they turn out to be, have barely any experience playing in the system.



No, they're non-factors until proven that it works, just like the Browns. People thought they'd be great, and they proved not to be. This was a 5-11 team with only two good wins.

Anything else is kool-aid. I want this team to win, and I think we'll be improved, but pretending we're leaps and bounds above the Browns of last year is nonsensical.

I will give you that "a bunch of new pieces" for the Browns is not significantly different from what the Cardinals have done. Concession made.

Past that, you are out your damn mind.

1 - "The Browns played 2019 under a coach who had been a part of the team for all of 2018. It's not a huge difference." It is a huge difference. Hue Jackson started that season as the HC. It was his system that was being run, Kitchens just used what he liked out of it and still had to appease interim HC Gregg Williams. Kitchens then took over but added Todd Monken as his OC. Different system and then a new OC.

2 - Gilbert was our best linemen? You are going to equate losing a guy who didn't play the previous year to the Browns trading away Kevin Zeitler?

3 - re: defenses...lol. I don't know where you are going with this. Yes we had a bad defense, but that is no where close to being the same as taking a good defense, changing DCs, and changing schemes.

4 - Of our 22 "starters" on offense and defense, only Hopkins, Cole, Phillips, Kennard and Campbell are new. 5 of 22. Your comment of "very different" is greatly exaggerated similar to my comment of "a bunch of new pieces".

I am tempted to also point out the our new max-hype offensive weapon in Hopkins comes with a much lower drama and risk than Beckham. That however is an opinion that can't be proven at this point.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Odell is on a similar level to Hopkins.

I think OBJ is one of the most overrated players in the NFL.

Yes he makes the occasional spectacular one handed catches. However he is more likely to drop an easy pass that hits him square in both hands. He is on the smaller frailer side of things and gets beat up. He is a whiny bitch and not a very good teammate. His production went down the minute he got his big payday.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I will give you that "a bunch of new pieces" for the Browns is not significantly different from what the Cardinals have done. Concession made.

Past that, you are out your damn mind.

1 - "The Browns played 2019 under a coach who had been a part of the team for all of 2018. It's not a huge difference." It is a huge difference. Hue Jackson started that season as the HC. It was his system that was being run, Kitchens just used what he liked out of it and still had to appease interim HC Gregg Williams. Kitchens then took over but added Todd Monken as his OC. Different system and then a new OC.

2 - Gilbert was our best linemen? You are going to equate losing a guy who didn't play the previous year to the Browns trading away Kevin Zeitler?

3 - re: defenses...lol. I don't know where you are going with this. Yes we had a bad defense, but that is no where close to being the same as taking a good defense, changing DCs, and changing schemes.

4 - Of our 22 "starters" on offense and defense, only Hopkins, Cole, Phillips, Kennard and Campbell are new. 5 of 22. Your comment of "very different" is greatly exaggerated similar to my comment of "a bunch of new pieces".

I am tempted to also point out the our new max-hype offensive weapon in Hopkins comes with a much lower drama and risk than Beckham. That however is an opinion that can't be proven at this point.

I have another, Kyler Murray is a better QB and prospect than Baker Mayfield. More level headed, better runner with his athletic gifts and also a superior passer in arm strength/accuracy range

 

[daves]

https://theathletic.com/1973853/202...fense-from-1-to-32-going-into-the-2020-season

Some big moves predicted!

1. Baltimore Ravens
Last year: 4th

2. Los Angeles Chargers
Last year: 21st

3. Pittsburgh Steelers
Last year: 3rd

4. New Orleans Saints
Last year: 11th

5. Chicago Bears
Last year: 8th

6. San Francisco 49ers
Last year: 2nd

7. Denver Broncos
Last year: 13th

8. Buffalo Bills
Last year: 6th

9. New England Patriots
Last year: 1st

10. Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Last year: 5th

...

14. Seattle Seahawks
Last year: 18th

...

17. Los Angeles Rams
Last year: 9th

...

21. Arizona Cardinals
Last year: 23rd
They were active in the offseason, signing defensive tackle Jordan Phillips, edge rusher Devon Kennard and off-ball linebacker De’Vondre Campbell. The Cardinals’ biggest move on defense was drafting hybrid safety/linebacker Isaiah Simmons eighth overall. Chandler Jones had 19 sacks and 26 QB hits last year and has been a consistently great pass rusher. Budda Baker is one of the best young safeties in the game. But the Cardinals have questions at corner. Patrick Peterson is 30 and didn’t look like himself after returning from suspension last season. Defensive coordinator Vance Joseph employed a blitz-heavy, man-coverage scheme without much success. Unless Simmons is generating Defensive Player of the Year buzz, this group is likely headed for mediocrity.

...dave

 

[football karma]

my flip side look:

Cards O will face a lot of bad defenses next year

6 in the bottom third (ranked 23-32)
6 in the middle third (ranked 12-22)
4 in the top third

 

[SECTION 11]

The Saints at 4?

 

[Jetstream Green]

Fair assessment... I'm still watching the tape and can't argue with him

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Chopper0080]

I think Vance Joseph will prevent this defense from being anything more than average. That said, I believe it is fair to expect improvement. IMO, we have the talent to be an average defense.

 

[Solar7]

I will give you that "a bunch of new pieces" for the Browns is not significantly different from what the Cardinals have done. Concession made.

Past that, you are out your damn mind.

1 - "The Browns played 2019 under a coach who had been a part of the team for all of 2018. It's not a huge difference." It is a huge difference. Hue Jackson started that season as the HC. It was his system that was being run, Kitchens just used what he liked out of it and still had to appease interim HC Gregg Williams. Kitchens then took over but added Todd Monken as his OC. Different system and then a new OC.

2 - Gilbert was our best linemen? You are going to equate losing a guy who didn't play the previous year to the Browns trading away Kevin Zeitler?

3 - re: defenses...lol. I don't know where you are going with this. Yes we had a bad defense, but that is no where close to being the same as taking a good defense, changing DCs, and changing schemes.

4 - Of our 22 "starters" on offense and defense, only Hopkins, Cole, Phillips, Kennard and Campbell are new. 5 of 22. Your comment of "very different" is greatly exaggerated similar to my comment of "a bunch of new pieces".

I am tempted to also point out the our new max-hype offensive weapon in Hopkins comes with a much lower drama and risk than Beckham. That however is an opinion that can't be proven at this point.

1. There was still some degree of continuity, especially most importantly, with Baker Mayfield (whose underwhelming play is mainly to blame for the failure of the team).

2. I mean, he looked to play a significant role. He's not the same as Zeitler, but we're also moving on to Mason Cole. It's not like our line is an unstoppable force. Also, they lost Zeitler for a dynamic talent. It's not like he departed in free agency or got injured. Even without Zeitler, Nick Chubb had an amazing year. I'll eat my hat if we have a 1,500 yard rusher this year.

3. Our defense has the potential to be terrible, is my point. Our DC is still Vance Joseph. We have a bunch of guys who haven't played together and will take time to gel. I think its improved, but we'll see if it turns out to be as good as 20, which is where the Browns were.

4. You're forgetting Alford, the unsettled RT spot, and that Jalen Thompson, Maxx Williams, and Kenyan Drake started 9, 10, and 8 games respectively, not due to injury. As full time starters, what will their efficiency be?

And of course, I'd rather have Hopkins than Beckham, but Odell still dropped a 74 reception, 1,000 yard season last year.

My goal isn't to trash talk our team, just to point out the potential that all of our hype doesn't translate into guaranteed wins. The Browns were 6-10, and that's still a 1 game improvement over what we did last year.

 

[Solar7]

I have another, Kyler Murray is a better QB and prospect than Baker Mayfield. More level headed, better runner with his athletic gifts and also a superior passer in arm strength/accuracy range

Mayfield's rookie year numbers were either similar or better than Kyler's, sans some rushing. And with 3 less games.

It's pure homerism to say Kyler can't regress like Mayfield did.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I think OBJ is one of the most overrated players in the NFL.

Yes he makes the occasional spectacular one handed catches. However he is more likely to drop an easy pass that hits him square in both hands. He is on the smaller frailer side of things and gets beat up. He is a whiny bitch and not a very good teammate. His production went down the minute he got his big payday.

Odell is a product of playing with the NY media

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Mayfield's rookie year numbers were either similar or better than Kyler's, sans some rushing. And with 3 less games.

It's pure homerism to say Kyler can't regress like Mayfield did.

It is in the range of outcomes for sure but the mental makeup between the two is dramatically different