The Ayton Plan

[Finito]

I think it's a little like moving Ayton although obviously Zion's physical issues are far more problematic. If they can get anywhere near full value for Zion's potential, a trade makes a lot of sense. Otherwise, as with Ayton, you'd be accepting run of the mill replacements to move on from a player with superstar potential.

If it were my call, I'd keep Ayton here but I'd move Zion if a worthy deal came around. But I can understand their reluctance to trade Zion and I can understand the Suns reluctance to pay DA.

And I like Willie Green a lot too, IMO that's the best thing the Pelicans have going for them.

I would feel 10x more confident giving Ayton that rookie max over Zion.

Zion scares the hell out of me if I’m any team. In three years he’s played 85 games and out of shape for about 30 of them but the natural talent is so sky high someone will gamble on him. I just couldn’t do it.

You would think he’s gotta have a weight clause in that new contract

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. I'm certainly not in the group that thinks the Pelicans were horrible, I know they had some injuries and as the team got healthier it showed in their play. But between the two of them there's no contest, the Mavericks were much better than New Orleans.

Dallas closed the season with a 23-7 record, they were no fluke. The Pelicans, as they got healthier, closed the season with a much improved 19-14 record - good enough to deserve that spot in the postseason but they weren't on our level or the Mavericks.

And Dallas, for some reason (injury, Covid, laziness, over-confidence, Kardashian curse, Sarver report, coaching, Martian replacements or whatever) was able to exert their will on us because they all of a sudden seemed quicker at every position.

They weren't the first team to go small against us or to load up with 3 point shooters, we took advantage of that most of the time in the regular season. And then we didn't. Why? Nobody here knows but we'd all like to find out.

I guess I disagree with "the Mavericks were much better than New Orleans" part. Actually I thought the Mavericks would be an easier match-up. The Suns had the superior size advantage.

The Suns should have been able to punish the Mavericks inside and slow them down on offense. They were getting almost anything they wanted. The Suns defense was not there. I suspect it was more a lapse in defensive schemes and game planning than it was personnel. The Suns could never defend those back door cuts.

 

[Big Al]

And yet we had great chemistry all year too. You could just see it in the players reactions and support for each other. I really have no clue what changed but something did and all we know is the final result, not what got us from 64 wins to almost losing to the Pelicans and then being blown out by the Mavericks.

Looking back, it was reported Ayton wanted a 5 year/ $172.5 million max. The Suns were not willing to commit to five year contract so here we are.

If bonuses were not built into the contract, it should have been a much easier decision for the Suns to make.

Actually I think the Suns could still give him this amount of money but there is a designated waiting period before he could be traded.

Yeah, the Suns defensive lapses can't be laid at the foot of one player.

Maybe I missed it, but I don't remember Chris Paul coaching up the players on the sideline and on the court. I'm not sure what happened there but it seemed to help. The Suns were not a hungry team in the playoffs.

It's all about putting in the work. Perhaps the Suns forgot that.

 

[1tinsoldier]

So are you in favor of paying the absolute most posible a guy who has a poor work ethic and has not met his potential?

like everyone else, i have mixed emotions

the only thing i can say for sure, is that i want one more crack at the ring next season
so i don't want any deal that involves a step backwards for future considerations/leverage

if there are no deals that would likely keep us in contention, i'd rather over-pay Ayton

 

[Big Al]

Maybe I missed it, but I don't remember Chris Paul coaching up the players on the sideline and on the court. I'm not sure what happened there but it seemed to help. The Suns were not a hungry team in the playoffs.

It's all about putting in the work. Perhaps the Suns forgot that.

1) What happen to the leadership of CP3 & the coach? I think the Suns forgot about how to earn a win in the playoffs. Now they were humbled in the playoffs by two good but lesser talent teams after being cocky and arrogant during the 2022 regular season when almost everything went the Suns way. But no Finals appearance or Championship to show for it in the end.

2) Now there's speculation talk of the Suns accepting a trade of Ayton for Houston's 6-10 center Christian Woods. Heck we had Woods in camp a little while back and let him go. Some teams can trade for value and some can't.

 

[Mainstreet]

1) What happen to the leadership of CP3 & the coach? I think the Suns forgot about how to earn a win in the playoffs. Now they were humbled in the playoffs by two good but lesser talent teams after being cocky and arrogant during the 2022 regular season when almost everything went the Suns way. But no Finals appearance or Championship to show for it in the end.

2) Now there's speculation talk of the Suns accepting a trade of Ayton for Houston's 6-10 center Christian Woods. Heck we had Woods in camp a little while back and let him go. Some teams can trade for value and some can't.

It's hard to get into the heads of Suns players when we don't know all the facts. Why work hard all season and then slack off in the playoffs? It doesn't make sense to me.

In regard to Ayton, the Suns were 17-3 when Ayton was out during the regular season. Maybe they are thinking he can be replaced with role playing centers. It worked for Boston and Golden State.

If Christian Wood wasn't an expiring contract I might be more interested in him. If the Suns do this trade with the Pistons I'm sure they are valuing the #3 pick a lot.

 

[Finito]

1) What happen to the leadership of CP3 & the coach? I think the Suns forgot about how to earn a win in the playoffs. Now they were humbled in the playoffs by two good but lesser talent teams after being cocky and arrogant during the 2022 regular season when almost everything went the Suns way. But no Finals appearance or Championship to show for it in the end.

2) Now there's speculation talk of the Suns accepting a trade of Ayton for Houston's 6-10 center Christian Woods. Heck we had Woods in camp a little while back and let him go. Some teams can trade for value and some can't.

It’s funny the knock on Woods and Collins are sometimes they play hard sometimes they don’t. Sound familiar?

Man Ayton sure is immature, we should trade for Miles Bridges lol.

Wish we would of pulled the trigger on that Sabonis trade. Now Sabonis and Collins up front I could go for that.

 

[Finito]

It's hard to get into the heads of Suns players when we don't know all the facts. Why work hard all season and then slack off in the playoffs? It doesn't make sense to me.

In regard to Ayton, the Suns were 17-3 when Ayton was out during the regular season. Maybe they are thinking he can be replaced with role playing centers. It worked for Boston and Golden State.

If Christian Wood wasn't an expiring contract I might be more interested in him. If the Suns do this trade with the Pistons I'm sure they are valuing the #3 pick a lot.

Suns had winning records when Paul, Booker or Ayton were out we won 64 games. All 3 missed serious time.

I think we compare to Boston but they might lose this series just like we lost to the Bucks. Golden state works because they have 3 hall of fame players on the roster

 

[Big Al]

It's hard to get into the heads of Suns players when we don't know all the facts. Why work hard all season and then slack off in the playoffs? It doesn't make sense to me.

In regard to Ayton, the Suns were 17-3 when Ayton was out during the regular season. Maybe they are thinking he can be replaced with role playing centers. It worked for Boston and Golden State.

If Christian Wood wasn't an expiring contract I might be more interested in him. If the Suns do this trade with the Pistons I'm sure they are valuing the #3 pick a lot.

Yeah why work hard all season & foil in the playoffs like the Suns. Inexcusable.

And next season when Mikal Bridges gets his 4 rebounds and Crowder gets his 3-5 rebounds a game Monty will be scratching his bald head wondering how to get some boards that Ayton use to consistently get for them in the past.

 

[Mainstreet]

Suns had winning records when Paul, Booker or Ayton were out we won 64 games. All 3 missed serious time.

I think we compare to Boston but they might lose this series just like we lost to the Bucks. Golden state works because they have 3 hall of fame players on the roster

I could accept losing to the Warriors better than losing to the Mavericks who had one All-Star.

Both the Celtics and Warriors are in the Finals without a dominant center. This is not my thinking but I could see where the Suns look at it this way.

 

[Big Al]

I could accept losing to the Warriors better than losing to the Mavericks who had one All-Star.

Warriors have 3 guards who are fantastic shot creators in Curry, Thompson and Poole and now Wiggins is playing out of his mind. Warriors headed for another championship I think.

 

[Mainstreet]

Warriors have 3 guards who are fantastic shot creators in Curry, Thompson and Poole and now Wiggins is playing out of his mind. Warriors headed for another championship I think.

The current trend seems to be to add shot creators, shooters and to play uptempo. With the referees not calling fouls inside it works. The Warriors put up 49 3-point shots in their win. I don't like the trend of the NBA making the game a 3-point shooting contest.

I'm for making the 3-point shot a longer distance shot.

 

[Finito]

I could accept losing to the Warriors better than losing to the Mavericks who had one All-Star.

Both the Celtics and Warriors are in the Finals without a dominant center. This is not my thinking but I could see where the Suns look at it this way.

Robert Williams and Al Horford are a big part of what Boston does and Tatum is 6’8 they have plenty of size up front.

 

[GatorAZ]

Hawks definitely looking for an upgrade over their current frontcourt.
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[Finito]

Hawks definitely looking for an upgrade over their current frontcourt.
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That would be a haul for Gobert.

I’d jump all over that if I were the Jazz. They’ve clearly gone as far as they can with what they have

 

[Mainstreet]

Robert Williams and Al Horford are a big part of what Boston does and Tatum is 6’8 they have plenty of size up front.

I wouldn't call Robert Williams and Al Horford dominant centers. Actually it may be making a case that a dominant center is not needed in today's NBA.

 

[Sunburn]

If advanced stats are credible, Rudy Gobert is undervalued by public perception. In terms of impact stats that identify "winning" players, he's top 10 in the league.

For example, here's 538's RAPTOR.

The Best NBA Players, According To RAPTOR

Our ratings use play-by-play and player-tracking data to calculate the value of every player in the NBA, updated daily.

projects.fivethirtyeight.com

 

[Mainstreet]

Hawks definitely looking for an upgrade over their current frontcourt.
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The Jazz would become the West coast Hawks.

 

[Folster]

That would be a haul for Gobert.

I’d jump all over that if I were the Jazz. They’ve clearly gone as far as they can with what they have

The keyword is "combination". Not all of the players and assets would be included.

 

[Finito]

I wouldn't call Robert Williams and Al Horford dominant centers. Actually it may be making a case that a dominant center is not needed in today's NBA.

They aren’t “dominate” but they are def important to what they do.

I think only two centers in the NBA are dominate Embiid and Joker.

 

[Mainstreet]

They aren’t “dominate” but they are def important to what they do.

I think only two centers in the NBA are dominate Embiid and Joker.

And they are both sitting at home during the Finals.

 

[Finito]

And they are both sitting at home during the Finals.

But not because of them.

Philly is a dumpster fire outside of Embiid(and he broke his face)

Joker is missing his second and third best player on his team.

 

[Mainstreet]

But not because of them.

Philly is a dumpster fire outside of Embiid(and he broke his face)

Joker is missing his second and third best player on his team.

All I'm saying the Suns may look around the league and think, do we need a dominant center?

 

[Finito]

All I'm saying the Suns may look around the league and think, do we need a dominant center?

You don’t need a dominate any one position.

But you do seem to need at least 3 guys who can carry the load no matter what position

And 3 point shooting something we don’t have either

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Hawks definitely looking for an upgrade over their current frontcourt.
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Capela, collins, huerter and 16th looks pretty compelling. I don’t love any of them. But in the aggregate it’s three legit players and a lotto ticket. Step back at center, step forward at PF, step forward at backup SG, and who knows what we reap at #16.