The Ayton Plan

[dscher]

Because the Suns have such a bad history with Centers doesn't mean we should pay top dollar for someone who is above average. Above average is our best ever, which is more of an indictment of previous talent than praise to DA.

I get it that he shows up in big moments like he did in the playoffs last year but a lot of good that will do if we don't get there. He's been little help in us being the best team in the league this year. His impact this season has been about the same as McGee, Biyombo, or Jalen Smith when he was given time. That's not worth max money. I know it'll be hard to replace but I trust the front office if that's what they decide to do.

This. Also, this time without Paul will help show what we have out there moving forward. Because Paul cleans up so much of any weakness out there it will really put pressure on our young guys like ayton to show what they will be without Paul at some point in the future. It's short sighted IMO to not look at this scenario. A life without Paul and what ayton will be in that capacity.

Edit. Scroll down and this was said.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Are NBA teams able to add poison pills to contracts similar to what happened in the NFL with Steve Hutchinson?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Are NBA teams able to add poison pills to contracts similar to what happened in the NFL with Steve Hutchinson?

I don't think they are any more. I know most of what they could do like that has been prohibited.

 

[elindholm]

with cap going up, would it look as bad? i know all contracts will go up accordingly but if we get him at the MAX before the cap goes up, we get a little better deal, no?

I believe it's true that maximum contracts can be defined as a percentage of the salary cap, so that when the cap goes up, the salaries go up automatically.

 

[Mainstreet]

with cap going up, would it look as bad? i know all contracts will go up accordingly but if we get him at the MAX before the cap goes up, we get a little better deal, no?

These are my thoughts. When a player signs a contract they sign with the existing salary cap in place.

I haven't seen existing contracts change with increased revenue.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

These are my thoughts. When a player signs a contract they sign with the existing salary cap in place.

I haven't seen existing contracts change with increased revenue.

There’s no reason they couldn’t be drawn up that way but I have no idea why any team would ever agree to that unless it’s Michael Jordan or Lebron or Durant.

 

[elindholm]

There’s no reason they couldn’t be drawn up that way but I have no idea why any team would ever agree to that unless it’s Michael Jordan or Lebron or Durant.

The same reason they give max deals in the first place: either they need to match the market, or they're trying to build good will with the player and his agent. How come you never see contracts for 95% of the max, or how come first-round picks always sign for 120% of scale, which is their maximum?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The same reason they give max deals in the first place: either they need to match the market, or they're trying to build good will with the player and his agent. How come you never see contracts for 95% of the max, or how come first-round picks always sign for 120% of scale, which is their maximum?

You want to be the first team to offer a contract with no cost control or foreseeability? It would be bad team and cap management (not that that has ever stopped the poorer teams from mishandling contracts and cap). At the end of the day, there’s no reason to do so unless the rest of league has gone the route of stupid too.

 

[Mainstreet]

You want to be the first team to offer a contract with no cost control or foreseeability? It would be bad team and cap management (not that that has ever stopped the poorer teams from mishandling contracts and cap). At the end of the day, there’s no reason to do so unless the rest of league has gone the route of stupid too.

I have to believe there are rules concerning it in the CBA.

 

[Hoop Head]

I have to believe there are rules concerning it in the CBA.

I think there is. I can see both sides. Not that the cap is likely to go down but can you imagine players being OK with max deals shrinking if it did? That's a concession they'd have to make if they wanted them to also increase with the cap.

The whole deal is structured when its signed. There are incentives and such but not that much flexibility. The max amounts are determined when the player signs also. That first year is what sets things up down the line. The whole salary is based on that first year and then increases a set percentage from there, not a percentage of the cap.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think there is. I can see both sides. Not that the cap is likely to go down but can you imagine players being OK with max deals shrinking if it did? That's a concession they'd have to make if they wanted them to also increase with the cap.

The whole deal is structured when its signed. There are incentives and such but not that much flexibility. The max amounts are determined when the player signs also. That first year is what sets things up down the line. The whole salary is based on that first year and then increases a set percentage from there, not a percentage of the cap.

I think we agree. Contracts are negotiated by the CAP in existence.

If players want to earn more money they can sign shorter contracts or have player options years built into the contract to take advantage of increased revenue.

 

[AzStevenCal]

with cap going up, would it look as bad? i know all contracts will go up accordingly but if we get him at the MAX before the cap goes up, we get a little better deal, no?

I'm not sure if the contract goes up, I keep hearing it both ways. But the annual raises are based on the cap so from that perspective, it does go up. And the real reason people talk about contracts starting to look better is because with a larger cap all future contracts go up - especially when the new TV deals come out.

 

[SunsTzu]

I believe it's true that maximum contracts can be defined as a percentage of the salary cap, so that when the cap goes up, the salaries go up automatically.

I might be misreading but max contracts are just a % of the cap from the date it is signed, the raises on the contract are capped at either 7.5% or 5% depending if the player signs with the home team or a different team.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ayton played the way Ayton should play against a small weak lakers team.

 

[elindholm]

I might be misreading but max contracts are just a % of the cap from the date it is signed, the raises on the contract are capped at either 7.5% or 5% depending if the player signs with the home team or a different team.

Yeah it looks like I was wrong about that.

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

I love his comment that he felt disrespected being guarded by someone half his size, and responded by having a huge game. Ayton from a year or two ago would've let the smaller guy bully him, so it was refreshing to see him be DominAyton.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Oddly enough Ayton has been better on offense with Paul out. His rebounding hasn’t been great, but since acknowledging his poor rebounding he has averaged 22 and 12 on 71% shooting in his last 5 games.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I wish contracts could be front loaded for the max. Pay him the max because what I worry about with Ayton the most is when Chris Paul is gone.

Offensively, he’s been flat out great sans CP3, consistently being a contributor there. That can’t be denied and it’s a huge weapon moving forward after Paul is gone. And he’s already decent to good on D when you average out his bad games and great games.

And he’s only 22. Look... Ayton frustrates me without a doubt but that’s because I want him at age 27... NOW. But he still has so much growth and maturity to go and I think in th right culture and coaching... which we have... he is going to get better. Maybe not reach that peak of his possible powers, but even a notch up from here goes from a good player to a perennial All-Star.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Offensively, he’s been flat out great sans CP3, consistently being a contributor there. That can’t be denied and it’s a huge weapon moving forward after Paul is gone. And he’s already decent to good on D when you average out his bad games and great games.

And he’s only 22. Look... Ayton frustrates me without a doubt but that’s because I want him at age 27... NOW. But he still has so much growth and maturity to go and I think in th right culture and coaching... which we have... he is going to get better. Maybe not reach that peak of his possible powers, but even a notch up from here goes from a good player to a perennial All-Star.

I agree with this. His main thing seems to be conditioning sometimes.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

It's crazy that there is any debate at this point. Ayton's floor alone makes the risk well worth it.

 

[Ronin]

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[Finito]

Oddly enough Ayton has been better on offense with Paul out. His rebounding hasn’t been great, but since acknowledging his poor rebounding he has averaged 22 and 12 on 71% shooting in his last 5 games.

He was already supper efficient but 71% is flat out freakish

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He was already supper efficient but 71% is flat out freakish

Yeah it’s absolutely ridiculous. His touch has become crazy good.

 

[Ronin]

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[Big Al]

I’d take that as a valid excuse if we didn’t see other players still grab volume rebounds when they’re the biggest guy on the floor and no one is helping. Not to mention, this 7 rebound game is not far removed from his spate of 16 games averaging 8 per game. Makes the 19 and 10 of the last two games outliers.

All that said, I didn’t watch the game, so I have no real idea the effort. And I know you don’t shrink from criticizing Ayton, so I’ll take your word.

Ayton is playing next to two very weak rebounders forwards in Crowder & Mikal. Although Mikal has improved his rebetter. & scoring of late but Crowder is so inconsistent rebounding and at 6-6 235 pounds so Crowder should be able to muscle in for more rebounds. You need more than one that just one guy consistently expected to rebounding on the boards and Crowder is the one not holding up his end of the rebounding load if you want to point fingers. Also Ayton is setting a lot high picks taking him from the basket so to help create shots for teammates and he probably could roll to the basket after setting those picks quicker to gather in additional rebounds. And on defense he does a good job on switching to lane delivering guards coming at the basket as he is very mobile. But some on this board are so critical of Ayton that if or when he is traded their regrets will surface. Sure his rebounding needs to be more consistent, his free attempts increased by aggressively attacking the basket more but he's still young and talented and he and the coaching staff need to work together to help him get better and reach his ceiling. We got a good center he just needs to work to be a great one. At least the potential there. He played 23 minutes last night and got 6 rebounds with 18 points & he could have done better rebounding but you can't rebound from the bench or at least I don't think you can. McGhee had a good game of 19 points not sure of his rebound total but it was more than 6 so together they got the job done and a win. Maybe if Biz could play some power forward minutes and get some more boards but I don't know if that he can or if that's even in the Suns plans. But give Ayton some slack because he'll get bettter.I wished we could have kept Jaden Smith's rebounding but the Suns know more about the talent & situation than we do.