The Ayton Plan

[Finito]

This is all I could find in regard to an actual meeting is this article discussing Ayton and Sarver having a drink at a restaurant.

DeAndre Ayton Meets W/ Suns Owner At Fancy AZ Resort Amid Contract Feud

DeAndre Ayton and Suns owner Robert Sarver have met this week amid an ugly contract feud ... TMZ Sports has learned.

www.tmz.com

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“For a multitude of reasons but ultimately when we looked at it from a team-building or roster construction standpoint, it just wasn’t our preference,” Jones said. “And we decided that that wasn’t something we wanted to do. That’s really what it came down to.”

“We had great discussions initially, he added. “We discussed a multitude of things” - James Jones

If it was a sit down, Skype, Phone, Carrier Pigeon. That’s debating details that don’t matter.

 

[Mainstreet]

There are 3 Max’s right

Your rookie max, the Luka rookie max with incentives

The Max Booker is coming up on is the super max. It’s the max after the other max

I'm not an agent or accountant who deals with these things but Luka received what is described as the rookie supermax of $207 million.

Then I understand there is max contract of what the Suns can offer with higher yearly raises compared to a contract another team can offer in restricted free agency which has slightly lower yearly raises.

I'm not sure if there is a super super max but I do think Booker will get every penny available when he is eligible.

 

[Mainstreet]

“

“For a multitude of reasons but ultimately when we looked at it from a team-building or roster construction standpoint, it just wasn’t our preference,” Jones said. “And we decided that that wasn’t something we wanted to do. That’s really what it came down to.”

“We had great discussions initially, he added. “We discussed a multitude of things” - James Jones

If it was a sit down, Skype, Phone, Carrier Pigeon. That’s debating details that don’t matter.

So are you debating the meaning of discussions versus negotiations? If so, I'm really not interested.

Ayton's side didn't budge from it's position in regard to contract talks. If you want to call it negotiations, that's fine by me.

 

[AzStevenCal]

There are 3 Max’s right

Your rookie max, the Luka rookie max with incentives

The Max Booker is coming up on is the super max. It’s the max after the other max

You're talking about the Veteran extension Supermax, only available after 7 or 8 years of service and can only be offered by the team that held his rookie contract (through the first extension).

IMO, giving up 35% of your cap to one player is almost a death sentence. We may have to do it with Devin if he qualifies but it's quite a challenge to build a real contender once you do it unless you're building around a Lebron level player.

 

[Finito]

So are you debating the meaning of discussions versus negotiations? If so, I'm really not interested.

Ayton's side didn't budge from it's position in regard to contract talks. If you want to call it negotiations, that's fine by me.

I’m not debating anything

 

[Mainstreet]

There are only 9 supermax players and Luka is one of them. He apparently qualifies because he made two First Team All-NBA appearances

Listing the 9 NBA players who are currently on supermax contracts

Russell Westbrook is one of three players in the NBA who are in the final year of their supermax deal.

www.sportskeeda.com

 

[Chaplin]

I'd love to know if James Jones has changed his stance on Ayton since last summer. I give him the benefit of the doubt, so hopefully he has.

 

[JCSunsfan]

With Ayton, they simply did not HAVE to offer him a max deal last summer. If he wanted the deal wrapped up early, he would have to give a little discount. DA could have had a massive injury this year, or regressed, or whatever. They still control him. He is not going to sign the QO. He will still get a max, maybe even a 5 year max. The Suns used up their insurance year. This is sports negotiating. It's the business. If you live in fear of players not being happy with their contracts, you will forever be in cap hell.

 

[DJ Tabooh]

I'm not an agent or accountant who deals with these things but Luka received what is described as the rookie supermax of $207 million.

Then I understand there is max contract of what the Suns can offer with higher yearly raises compared to a contract another team can offer in restricted free agency which has slightly lower yearly raises.

I'm not sure if there is a super super max but I do think Booker will get every penny available when he is eligible.

There’s a rookie Supermax and then a years of service 7-8 Super Max that you qualify for. Both are qualified for if you make an All-NBA team, Win MVP or DPOY.

So let’s say in 4 years, Luka could hypothetically receive another Supermax which is 5 years/250 million plus as it goes up. Book can sign a Supermax this summer since he’ll most likely make All-NBA at 4 years/210 million.

Does Book take less money so the Suns can keep DA and Cam without having to pay the luxury tax? Who knows.

 

[Carolinacacti]

There’s a rookie Supermax and then a years of service 7-8 Super Max that you qualify for. Both are qualified for if you make an All-NBA team, Win MVP or DPOY.

So let’s say in 4 years, Luka could hypothetically receive another Supermax which is 5 years/250 million plus as it goes up. Book can sign a Supermax this summer since he’ll most likely make All-NBA at 4 years/210 million.

Does Book take less money so the Suns can keep DA and Cam without having to pay the luxury tax? Who knows.

I never thought Book was a Supermax player when they gave him the Max. He proved me wrong but he is boarder line SuperMax. He should stay on the regular Max for the team HA never happen.

 

[Covert Rain]

Booker and Ayton will get every dollar available. The question is really is after Ayton's contract is done will Sarver be willing to spend enough money to field a team that can compete for a title. To me that is a bigger question mark than if Ayton will get his money and/or will Booker get another max deal.

 

[elindholm]

Sign-and-trade Ayton for an aggressive, if less talented, center, plus a mid-starting-level PG? What are the options out there? Like it or not, the Suns' window closes once Paul retires. Even if he's in decline, there just isn't enough other talent on the roster. So it's now or never.

 

[Hoop Head]

Sign-and-trade Ayton for an aggressive, if less talented, center, plus a mid-starting-level PG? What are the options out there? Like it or not, the Suns' window closes once Paul retires. Even if he's in decline, there just isn't enough other talent on the roster. So it's now or never.

Orlando has Wendell Carter Jr and Cole Anthony. Both midtier players. I like both but think we'd need a pick or at least the ability to swap picks if we did that. I also like Franz Wagner. Not sure if they'd part with all 3 for Ayton. It'd be a gamble on both sides.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Orlando has Wendell Carter Jr and Cole Anthony. Both midtier players. I like both but think we'd need a pick or at least the ability to swap picks if we did that. I also like Franz Wagner. Not sure if they'd part with all 3 for Ayton. It'd be a gamble on both sides.

I don’t love being the team that trades the one star for multiple lower tier players, but that’s an interesting proposal if they’d consider it.

 

[Finito]

Ayton is an odd player.

He’s actually really good, but people no matter what he does never think it’s enough. He’s literally the only player in Suns history who can get you 20/10 and only miss 4 shots and people are screaming he sucks.

All while being one of the
4 best defensive bigs in basketball( Embiid, Rudy, Bam) and when it comes to switching Bam and Ayton are head and shoulders above everyone.

If you think those guys grow on trees good luck. However I’m down to trade anyone if the offer is right and if we lose Sunday.

A sign and trade for Ayton/Crowder for Sabonis/Fox?

I would. Got to blow it up.

 

[Superbone]

Nobody is saying Ayton sucks. We just know he has the potential to be so much more. We would love to see an aggressive Ayton that dunks the ball with authority through contact but we probably never will. It's a case of he is what he is. He is a finesse player. A very efficient, skilled big man. I don't think anybody is denying that.

Book, Doncic, Young are all alphas. Ayton is not. Alphas are the ones who get max contracts.

 

[Finito]

Nobody is saying Ayton sucks. We just know he has the potential to be so much more. We would love to see an aggressive Ayton that dunks the ball with authority through contact but we probably never will. It's a case of he is what he is. He is a finesse player. A very efficient, skilled big man. I don't think anybody is denying that.

Book, Doncic, Young are all alphas. Ayton is not. Alphas are the ones who get max contracts.

Guys say he sucks all the time. Check any of the recent game threads. It’s always Ayton’s fault

I don’t consider Luka or Young “alphas” AT ALL. Did you see Young in the playoffs this year? Luka for all his talent already has the reputation of someone who doesn’t work hard and let’s his body go in the offseason.

His market is the Max. Like it I said 7 footers who are 20/10 guys and are elite defensively don’t grow on trees.

The term “the max” gets guys in there feelings. When all this gambling money comes into play the next TV contract these max deals today are going to seem like bargains

 

[overseascardfan]

I think Ayton needs help at PF with rebounding and defense. We have wing defenders but no one to help defend the post. As tight up against the cap as PHX will be it will be hard to find that player close to that unless they can get a guy like Chris Boucher or Larry Nance Jr on a mid level exception. They do have a second round pick but the scouting department is really going to have to unearth a gem at that point in the draft. PHX needs to build with Ayton/Booker/Bridges/Johnson core, they are just going to have to find complementary pieces in draft and mid level/biannual/vet minimum deals.

I wouldn't look to deal any of the core unless you are getting equal or greater value.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Guys say he sucks all the time. Check any of the recent game threads. It’s always Ayton’s fault

I don’t consider Luka or Young “alphas” AT ALL. Did you see Young in the playoffs this year? Luka for all his talent already has the reputation of someone who doesn’t work hard and let’s his body go in the offseason.

His market is the Max. Like it I said 7 footers who are 20/10 guys and are elite defensively don’t grow on trees.

The term “the max” gets guys in there feelings. When all this gambling money comes into play the next TV contract these max deals today are going to seem like bargains

No one says he sucks all the time. You just become Michael Stone’s mom any time someone dares to say a negative word about him. Most everyone is putting this series blame on CP3, and Bridges has gotten trashed for his Shawn Marion-impression, but yeah… Ayton deserves criticism too. He wants a MAX deal but has only shown up in 2 games (Game 1 and 6) and 1 great quarter in Game 5, but was so shaky in the first half, his coach BENCHED him because he was playing so soft around the rim. He’s supposed to the be third leg of this this team and he still drifts, even in the playoffs.

And you don’t consider Luka an Alpha? He’s the unquestioned leader of that team and the Mavs were atrocious for years before him. Got them into the playoffs his second year, took a healthy Kawai/George team to 7 last year and he’s got them within 1 game of the Conference Finals in year with nothing but role players around him.

He’s definitely an alpha.

And Ayton just isn’t elite defensively, no matter how many times you want to say it. He’s a solid but not spectacular rebounder, a bad shot blocker, is decent defending the perimeter most of the time (although Dallas has had their way Goberting in a lot of this series). And… he didn’t get ONE VOTE to make any All-Defensive team. Not ONE VOTE. You’d think if he was ELITE defensively, someone besides you might have noticed by now. I don’t think he’s EVER gotten ONE vote to make any defensive team.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think Ayton needs help at PF with rebounding and defense. We have wing defenders but no one to help defend the post. As tight up against the cap as PHX will be it will be hard to find that player close to that unless they can get a guy like Chris Boucher or Larry Nance Jr on a mid level exception. They do have a second round pick but the scouting department is really going to have to unearth a gem at that point in the draft. PHX needs to build with Ayton/Booker/Bridges/Johnson core, they are just going to have to find complementary pieces in draft and mid level/biannual/vet minimum deals.

I wouldn't look to deal any of the core unless you are getting equal or greater value.

This is exactly what Ayton needs beside him. A power forward who can defend, rebound and hit the open shot.

 

[Finito]

No one says he sucks all the time. You just become Michael Stone’s mom any time someone dares to say a negative word about him. Most everyone is putting this series blame on CP3, and Bridges has gotten trashed for his Shawn Marion-impression, but yeah… Ayton deserves criticism too. He wants a MAX deal but has only shown up in 2 games (Game 1 and 6) and 1 great quarter in Game 5, but was so shaky in the first half, his coach BENCHED him because he was playing so soft around the rim. He’s supposed to the be third leg of this this team and he still drifts, even in the playoffs.

And you don’t consider Luka an Alpha? He’s the unquestioned leader of that team and the Mavs were atrocious for years before him. Got them into the playoffs his second year, took a healthy Kawai/George team to 7 last year and he’s got them within 1 game of the Conference Finals in year with nothing but role players around him.

He’s definitely an alpha.

And Ayton just isn’t elite defensively, no matter how many times you want to say it. He’s a solid but not spectacular rebounder, a bad shot blocker, is decent defending the perimeter most of the time (although Dallas has had their way Goberting in a lot of this series). And… he didn’t get ONE VOTE to make any All-Defensive team. Not ONE VOTE. You’d think if he was ELITE defensively, someone besides you might have noticed by now. I don’t think he’s EVER gotten ONE vote to make any defensive team.

I don’t know who Micheal Stone or his mom is.

Oh well I mean if votes are the be all end all. Hey let me ask you. Would you consider Bam Adabeyo elite? I mean it’s yes or no is Bam elite?

The reason I ask is because they pretty much finished the season with the same defensive rating 104/105. If I’m not mistaken he was #1 for pretty much the whole year for centers when it came to holding guards on switches.

I’ve been plenty hard on Ayton but what I don’t do and what alot of guys do including you is blame Ayton for everything. I’ve tried to trade him multiple times on this board. It’s low hanging fruit and just wreaks of lack of understanding about Basketball.

Bad pass by Paul? Ayton should of caught it

Booker leaves his man on defense? He’s cheating cause he doesn’t trust Ayton

All you gotta do it look at the game thread.

 

[Finito]

This is exactly what Ayton needs beside him. A power forward who can defend, rebound and hit the open shot.

I’m done with Crowder he’s a huge liability. He’s here to be 3&D but his defense has been horrible and when he’s cold he’s ice cold.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don’t know who Micheal Stone or his mom is.

Oh well I mean if votes are the be all end all. Hey let me ask you. Would you consider Bam Adabeyo elite? I mean it’s yes or no is Bam elite?

The reason I ask is because they pretty much finished the season with the same defensive rating 104/105. If I’m not mistaken he was #1 for pretty much the whole year for centers when it came to holding guards on switches.

I’ve been plenty hard on Ayton but what I don’t do and what alot of guys do including you is blame Ayton for everything. I’ve tried to trade him multiple times on this board. It’s low hanging fruit and just wreaks of lack of understanding about Basketball.

Bad pass by Paul? Ayton should of caught it

Booker leaves his man on defense? He’s cheating cause he doesn’t trust Ayton

All you gotta do it look at the game thread.

If you asked me I'd say Ayton falls somewhere in between where you put him and where his attackers put him. He gets blamed for a lot of things, some deserving and some not.

All told, he's a better than average big man but we really need him to be great and he's shown that kind of ability at times. Being less than great doesn't equal horrible but you'd have a hard time convincing some of his detractors here of this. But just some. Many support him when he earns it and call him out when he's failing us.

 

[Mainstreet]

I’m done with Crowder he’s a huge liability. He’s here to be 3&D but his defense has been horrible and when he’s cold he’s ice cold.

The Suns do not have a lot of options to replace Crowder this summer but they will have future draft picks available.

I think they keep Crowder (expiring contract) but will have to look at whether they want to keep Saric (expiring contract) who is owed around $10 million as well. It would probably take a first round pick to trade him.

Then there is Cam Payne and Torrey Craig (expiring) who are owed about $5-6 million each.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ayton is an odd player.

He’s actually really good, but people no matter what he does never think it’s enough. He’s literally the only player in Suns history who can get you 20/10 and only miss 4 shots and people are screaming he sucks.

All while being one of the
4 best defensive bigs in basketball( Embiid, Rudy, Bam) and when it comes to switching Bam and Ayton are head and shoulders above everyone.

If you think those guys grow on trees good luck. However I’m down to trade anyone if the offer is right and if we lose Sunday.

A sign and trade for Ayton/Crowder for Sabonis/Fox?

I would. Got to blow it up.

That’s a likely better trade but man sabonis is awful defensively.