The Ayton Plan

[95pro]

Take the source with an iceberg sized grain of salt:
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Wasn’t there already reports on his character and that’s the reason why they didn’t sign his extension?

I mean not to mention the suspension and the eye test. Oh and the weird interviews his given before last year, he did get better at saying the right things but we haven’t seen it on the court.

 

[Mainstreet]

I agree. We don’t have a lot of leverage.

Hopefully there will be a lot of competition for Ayton. Some teams don't have anyone to build around. It's not like Ayton hasn't put up decent numbers. We may have to deal with teams like the Kings and Pacers though.

However, for all we know, the Suns may have been spoon feeding Ayton all these years.

He did play well in the postseason last year.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Seeing some of these posts y’all gonna be real disappointed with what we get for Ayton lol.

Agreed.

 

[Cheesebeef]

We’re all such gluttons for punishments for even caring what we get for Ayton after that legendary dump the Suns just took in our collective mouths.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Remember when ALL of us compared this Suns teams to the 5 time Champion Spurs?

My lord… reading back some of these threads would be hilarious with how ludicrously wrong we were about this team. And I FULLY INCLUDE myself in all of it.

 

[JerkFace]

Since the main thing we want Ayton to do is play defense and dunk the ball I wonder if Utah would be interested in a Gobert/Ayton trade.

 

[Phrazbit]

Seeing some of these posts y’all gonna be real disappointed with what we get for Ayton lol.

Something like Nurkic, one of the Blazers young serviceable guys and the #6 pick seems like a realistic and disappointing return.

Or Valanciunas, Larry Nance and a Pelicans draft pick.

 

[Western Font]

I think we are understandably down on Ayton right now, but if he’s actually available, other GMs are going to be looking at a lot of consistent numbers and weighing those against potential and motivational concerns. Teams talk themselves into a change of scene all the time, and sometimes they’re right.

 

[Finito]

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Turns out Ayton was our best defender in both the Pelicans and Dallas series

 

[elindholm]

Turns out Ayton was our best defender in both the Pelicans and Dallas series

I'm not surprised.

Ayton is a really good player. The fact that he could be even better is the problem not because, gee, it would be nice if he were better, but because of the message it sends to his teammates. You can't have a culture of everyone working their hardest and then one guy strolls in at 80%, does his part, and then wanders off to play video games. He's not honoring the effort of his teammates, and that means that, over time, they will either resent him or stop working so hard themselves.

You see the opposite when a team's best offensive player works very hard on defense, or dives to the floor for a loose ball. They could be a very good player without doing those things, but they make a statement: If I'm doing everything I can to help us win, then you sure better fall in line.

In terms of personality, Ayton is similar to Shaquille O'Neal. O'Neal was so much the better player that he could be an all-time great without ever being much of a defender or learning to shoot free throws. But when the Lakers had their rocky stretches, which was often, it was typically because Bryant and O'Neal's other teammates were fed up with O'Neal's reluctance to work hard. But, he was a great player in spite of that, and the rest of the roster was talented enough to win titles even without their star center's full effort.

If the Suns had more elite talent around Ayton, his problems would be less magnified. But it's a roster of over-achievers, and that's exhausting to keep up over a long season. To keep that energy going, you need to be inspired by a culture of everyone doing it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm not surprised.

Ayton is a really good player. The fact that he could be even better is the problem not because, gee, it would be nice if he were better, but because of the message it sends to his teammates. You can't have a culture of everyone working their hardest and then one guy strolls in at 80%, does his part, and then wanders off to play video games. He's not honoring the effort of his teammates, and that means that, over time, they will either resent him or stop working so hard themselves.

You see the opposite when a team's best offensive player works very hard on defense, or dives to the floor for a loose ball. They could be a very good player without doing those things, but they make a statement: If I'm doing everything I can to help us win, then you sure better fall in line.

In terms of personality, Ayton is similar to Shaquille O'Neal. O'Neal was so much the better player that he could be an all-time great without ever being much of a defender or learning to shoot free throws. But when the Lakers had their rocky stretches, which was often, it was typically because Bryant and O'Neal's other teammates were fed up with O'Neal's reluctance to work hard. But, he was a great player in spite of that, and the rest of the roster was talented enough to win titles even without their star center's full effort.

If the Suns had more elite talent around Ayton, his problems would be less magnified. But it's a roster of over-achievers, and that's exhausting to keep up over a long season. To keep that energy going, you need to be inspired by a culture of everyone doing it.

Great post

 

[TRW]

Does Stix come up because he is an ex-Sun? Why is there always the desire to bring back players who were jettisoned? Smh

 

[Folster]

Does Stix come up because he is an ex-Sun? Why is there always the desire to bring back players who were jettisoned? Smh

He was jettisoned because JJ screwed up in assessing him. His option should have been picked up. He was showing potential to be the 4 we need next to Ayton and replace Crowder. We were forced to trade him to get some value in return after the contract flub.

 

[Finito]

I'm not surprised.

Ayton is a really good player. The fact that he could be even better is the problem not because, gee, it would be nice if he were better, but because of the message it sends to his teammates. You can't have a culture of everyone working their hardest and then one guy strolls in at 80%, does his part, and then wanders off to play video games. He's not honoring the effort of his teammates, and that means that, over time, they will either resent him or stop working so hard themselves.

You see the opposite when a team's best offensive player works very hard on defense, or dives to the floor for a loose ball. They could be a very good player without doing those things, but they make a statement: If I'm doing everything I can to help us win, then you sure better fall in line.

In terms of personality, Ayton is similar to Shaquille O'Neal. O'Neal was so much the better player that he could be an all-time great without ever being much of a defender or learning to shoot free throws. But when the Lakers had their rocky stretches, which was often, it was typically because Bryant and O'Neal's other teammates were fed up with O'Neal's reluctance to work hard. But, he was a great player in spite of that, and the rest of the roster was talented enough to win titles even without their star center's full effort.

If the Suns had more elite talent around Ayton, his problems would be less magnified. But it's a roster of over-achievers, and that's exhausting to keep up over a long season. To keep that energy going, you need to be inspired by a culture of everyone doing it.

But that’s the thing right. It’s always something.

I’ve heard over and over about how Ayton was bad in this series. About how he got “Gobert’ed” but the reality was he was our best defender and it was our perimeter defense that fell about. Wasn’t Bridges runner up for DPOY? I thought Book was the #2 rated defensive SG in the NBA.

Ayton is our 3rd option right. Not one person here would say he’s more important than Booker or Paul we can all agree on that.

Ayton on offense had games of
25/8
16/11
14/11
20/9
21/11

If this is my #3 guy and he’s giving me this on offense and being my best defender I’m pretty happy. See I hear a lot about how Bridges offense suffered because he was working so hard on defense, but why isn’t that extended to Ayton, but Ayton didn’t struggle like Bridges.

I got into a fun convo with main about how Paul was “sacrificing for the team” because all his energy was going towards defense, but Ayton doesn’t get that courtesy.

Your asking your 7 footer to chase guys around the perimeter every time and he did play great defense all while being productive on offense and still really efficient and he was, but it’s still he’s not working hard enough. It’s always something. It’s never enough but the reality is your going to have a real hard time finding a guy that gives you what he gives you.



His two worst games. He was in foul trouble early
Game 2
9/3 18 minutes( this was a blowout we didn’t need him)

Game 7
5/4 17 minutes ( we all know what happened in game 7 with this entire team)

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

But that’s the thing right. It’s always something.

I’ve heard over and over about how Ayton was bad in this series. About how he got “Gobert’ed” but the reality was he was our best defender and it was our perimeter defense that fell about. Wasn’t Bridges runner up for DPOY? I thought Book was the #2 rated defensive SG in the NBA.

Ayton is our 3rd option right. Not one person here would say he’s more important than Booker or Paul we can all agree on that.

Ayton on offense had games of
25/8
16/11
14/11
20/9
21/11

If this is my #3 guy and he’s giving me this on offense and being my best defender I’m pretty happy. See I hear a lot about how Bridges offense suffered because he was working so hard on defense, but why isn’t that extended to Ayton, but Ayton didn’t struggle like Bridges.

I got into a fun convo with main about how Paul was “sacrificing for the team” because all his energy was going towards defense, but Ayton doesn’t get that courtesy.

Your asking your 7 footer to chase guys around the perimeter every time and he did play great defense all while being productive on offense and still really efficient and he was, but it’s still he’s not working hard enough. It’s always something. It’s never enough but the reality is your going to have a real hard time finding a guy that gives you what he gives you.



His two worst games. He was in foul trouble early
Game 2
9/3 18 minutes( this was a blowout we didn’t need him)

Game 7
5/4 17 minutes ( we all know what happened in game 7 with this entire team)

Getting in foul trouble doesn’t excuse him though. Weird that you argue that it does. It directly impacts the game. He averaged 15/8.7 in the series. A series in which Paul was clearly compromised and ineffective. We needed more from him and he didn’t provide it. And the narrative seems to be he bailed on the team. Kinda surprised a guy like you that struts around lauding toughness is cool with a player abandoning his squad.

 

[AzStevenCal]

He was jettisoned because JJ screwed up in assessing him. His option should have been picked up. He was showing potential to be the 4 we need next to Ayton and replace Crowder. We were forced to trade him to get some value in return after the contract flub.

That's not accurate. He was showing ZERO potential to be the 4 next to Ayton when JJ declined to pick up the option.

He didn't show any real NBA potential until after we were shorthanded at the 5 and Monty was forced to use him at a position he didn't want him in. Stix showed well then but it was too late.

Also, according to Ayton, part of Smith's poor early performance was because he didn't understand how hard he needed to work at his job. Granted, I don't know how much credence to give to that comment by DA considering how much that sounds like the same complaints we've heard about him.

 

[Mainstreet]

He was jettisoned because JJ screwed up in assessing him. His option should have been picked up. He was showing potential to be the 4 we need next to Ayton and replace Crowder. We were forced to trade him to get some value in return after the contract flub.

Of course I wanted the Suns to draft Haliburton but the Suns not picking up the option on Stix perplexed me more.

Now the Suns have another season of Torrey Craig's contract so no financial gain was realized.

Actually they gave up a 2nd round pick as well.

 

[Folster]

That's not accurate. He was showing ZERO potential to be the 4 next to Ayton when JJ declined to pick up the option.

He didn't show any real NBA potential until after we were shorthanded at the 5 and Monty was forced to use him at a position he didn't want him in. Stix showed well then but it was too late.

Also, according to Ayton, part of Smith's poor early performance was because he didn't understand how hard he needed to work at his job. I don't know how much credence to give to that comment by DA considering how much that sounds like the same complaints we've heard about him.

This was a failure in talent assessment. He was in our building every day. Ultimately, Smith's option was not that much. You always give a young big at least 3 years to develop.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Getting in foul trouble doesn’t excuse him though. Weird that you argue that it does. It directly impacts the game. He averaged 15/8.7 in the series. A series in which Paul was clearly compromised and ineffective. We needed more from him and he didn’t provide it. And the narrative seems to be he bailed on the team. Kinda surprised a guy like you that struts around lauding toughness is cool with a player abandoning his squad.

Those great stats by Ayton don't include the times when he gets lost on defense and isn't guarding anyone. Or the times when he loses focus or plays soft allowing the opponent to get the offensive rebound. Ayton wasn't the reason we lost, that was due to the horrible play of CP3. If that was from injury, a big part of the blame falls on Monty too. But Ayton could have made much more of a difference for us in that series.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This was a failure in talent assessment. He was in our building every day. Ultimately, Smith's options was not that much. You always give a young big at least 3 years to develop.

I think they made a mistake too but it was understandable IMO. And the mistake primarily falls on Monty. He's the one that would not play him.

Covid and Smith's first year injury really stunted his development, witness his abject failure when we sent him to the G League. Those facts along with his reported lack of work ethic led to the dismissal but most of that error falls on Monty or Smith. And let's face it, we needed every penny of Cap room in our quest for a second round playoff ousting.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That's not accurate. He was showing ZERO potential to be the 4 next to Ayton when JJ declined to pick up the option.

He didn't show any real NBA potential until after we were shorthanded at the 5 and Monty was forced to use him at a position he didn't want him in. Stix showed well then but it was too late.

Also, according to Ayton, part of Smith's poor early performance was because he didn't understand how hard he needed to work at his job. Granted, I don't know how much credence to give to that comment by DA considering how much that sounds like the same complaints we've heard about him.

We gave stix a year, right? That doesn’t seem enough time to analyze any player unless they’re flat spitting in your face.

 

[Finito]

Those great stats by Ayton don't include the times when he gets lost on defense and isn't guarding anyone. Or the times when he loses focus or plays soft allowing the opponent to get the offensive rebound. Ayton wasn't the reason we lost, that was due to the horrible play of CP3. If that was from injury, a big part of the blame falls on Monty too. But Ayton could have made much more of a difference for us in that series.

But that’s the thing. You can’t have great stats and suck. If your looking for this flawless player who never lets a rebound get by him or never gives up a basket during a game your gonna be looking for a long time. Those guys don’t exist.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

But that’s the thing. You can’t have great stats and suck. If your looking for this flawless player who never lets a rebound get by him or never gives up a basket during a game your gonna be looking for a long time. Those guys don’t exist.

I think it paints a pretty clear picture that at a time where the entire team and coaching staff is coming under fire by every member of our forum - with no one defending anyone - you’re still coming to the rescue of Ayton.

 

[AzStevenCal]

But that’s the thing. You can’t have great stats and suck. If your looking for this flawless player who never lets a rebound get by him or never gives up a basket during a game your gonna be looking for a long time. Those guys don’t exist.

I've never said he sucked and there's a lot of space in between horrible and flawless.

He shows how dominant he can be in almost every game but he rarely actually dominates the game. Our defense, when CP3 can hold his own, is often incredible and Ayton is a big reason if not the main reason. Which makes those stretches even more inexplicable where he stands around looking lost while the other team grabs offensive board after offensive board.

I think the situation is such that we have to trade him and I don't believe it will make us better. Losing what he has been to date is going to hurt more than a lot of fans realize - losing what he still could become could easily become the worst mistake this franchise has ever made.

OTOH, if he's high all the time (as speculated) and spending most of his energy playing Fortnite or whatever, avoiding his max contract might end up being one of our best decisions. Regardless, I'm disappointed that we failed in making it work even if some/most of it falls on Ayton.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Those great stats by Ayton don't include the times when he gets lost on defense and isn't guarding anyone. Or the times when he loses focus or plays soft allowing the opponent to get the offensive rebound. Ayton wasn't the reason we lost, that was due to the horrible play of CP3. If that was from injury, a big part of the blame falls on Monty too. But Ayton could have made much more of a difference for us in that series.

When did 15.8/8.7 become great stats? Especially when they’re literally WORSE than his regular season average which was merely good, but not great.