The Ayton Plan

[overseascardfan]

That stat is terrible as an individual metric.

It has Kevin love among the leagues best defenders, it has Saric above AD and Capela and the list is largely guys who never see the court.

Look at defensive win share totals. Last year Ayton posted significantly more in significantly less playing time. Ayton is one of the most versatile defensive bigs in the league, he chases out perpetrators and can switch and defend the perimeter as well as any big in the league.

Has Deandre Ayton’s defense regressed?

The Suns are still among the best defensive teams in the NBA, but statistics seem to show that Ayton hasn’t been the force he was last season.

www.brightsideofthesun.com

They include everyone instead of setting a minimum but the one thing you should be taking out of it is in no category Ayton ahead of Capela. Capela's calling card is his defense and rebounding always has been, that is what I am challenging you about since you said Ayton was a better defender. Article above shows his defensive efficiency numbers have regressed this year.

 

[Phrazbit]

Has Deandre Ayton’s defense regressed?

The Suns are still among the best defensive teams in the NBA, but statistics seem to show that Ayton hasn’t been the force he was last season.

www.brightsideofthesun.com

They include everyone instead of setting a minimum but the one thing you should be taking out of it is in no category Ayton ahead of Capela. Capela's calling card is his defense and rebounding always has been, that is what I am challenging you about since you said Ayton was a better defender. Article above shows his defensive efficiency numbers have regressed this year.

It's still early in the year and last year Ayton crushed Capela.

 

[overseascardfan]

It's still early in the year and last year Ayton crushed Capela.

Agree to disagree. Capela has been in running for DPOY twice in his career, none for Ayton. Ayton has never been known for his defense since arriving in NBA.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That stat is terrible as an individual metric.

It has Kevin love among the leagues best defenders, it has Saric above AD and Capela and the list is largely guys who never see the court.

Look at defensive win share totals. Last year Ayton posted significantly more in significantly less playing time. Ayton is one of the most versatile defensive bigs in the league, he chases out perpetrators and can switch and defend the perimeter as well as any big in the league.

Can, and can effectively, are two different things. I can’t recall the last time someone didn’t just drop a jumper right over Ayton on the perimeter bc he plays in no man’s land.

 

[Bufalay]

If you’re still on the trade Ayton bandwagon then you just don’t like him.

Correct.

 

[Proximo]

KD was just one of the rumors. I don’t see how you can continue to cape for him when it was obvious to everyone that this team had real legit issues after the way last season ended and not one was addressed in the offseason.

If he feels this team isn’t going anywhere then you should blow it up. Being in the middle of the pack is the worst position you can be in. You either want to be a contender or be in the lottery stock piling draft picks.

Making a bad deal just to make a deal would piss me off a lot more than doing nothing.

You have to be patient and pounce when the right deal presents itself, you can't force it.

 

[Finito]

Agree to disagree. Capela has been in running for DPOY twice in his career, none for Ayton. Ayton has never been known for his defense since arriving in NBA.

I think Ayton finished 2nd last year in perimeter defense for a center and top 5 in the paint.

Ayton is really good when it comes to switching a something that is a must in todays NBA. Capela is a good weak side defender like a better McGee.

But at this point Capela isn’t in the same class as Ayton

 

[AzStevenCal]

Making a bad deal just to make a deal would piss me off a lot more than doing nothing.

You have to be patient and pounce when the right deal presents itself, you can't force it.

Agreed but I don't think the right deal really exists for us until we move on from Sarver. The last thing this league wants is for Phoenix to be in the limelight while Robert's name is still attached to the organization. I'm not suggesting there's an organized conspiracy against us but the foul discrepancy last year and this year isn't a coincidence IMO. I also find it doubtful that JJ has much leeway until the sale is finalized.

 

[Superbone]

Making a bad deal just to make a deal would piss me off a lot more than doing nothing.

You have to be patient and pounce when the right deal presents itself, you can't force it.

Jones is nothing if not patient.

 

[Superbone]

Agreed but I don't think the right deal really exists for us until we move on from Sarver. The last thing this league wants is for Phoenix to be in the limelight while Robert's name is still attached to the organization. I'm not suggesting there's an organized conspiracy against us but the foul discrepancy last year and this year isn't a coincidence IMO. I also find it doubtful that JJ has much leeway until the sale is finalized.

I'm wondering the same thing.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Agreed but I don't think the right deal really exists for us until we move on from Sarver. The last thing this league wants is for Phoenix to be in the limelight while Robert's name is still attached to the organization. I'm not suggesting there's an organized conspiracy against us but the foul discrepancy last year and this year isn't a coincidence IMO. I also find it doubtful that JJ has much leeway until the sale is finalized.

You guys are ridiculous with the conspiracy theories.

We are a perimeter team who also thrives on the midrange game. We have literally NO ONE who attacks the basket with force, including our own Center who shies away from contact his entire career.

As to the league has an ulterior motive and would somehow be pulling strings to keep a trade from being made to help the Suns stay in the limelight, Sarver is a complete non-factor for the Suns. He’s suspended from being around the team and has announced he’s selling. Hell, if that theory was true, Hamstringing the team from making any moves to help them would only PROLONG Sarver sticking around because the team would be looked at as a distressed asset from outside buyers. So that theory makes zero sense in any way shape to me either.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You guys are ridiculous with the conspiracy theories.

We are a perimeter team who also thrives on the midrange game. We have literally NO ONE who attacks the basket with force, including our own Center who shies away from contact his entire career.

As to the league has an ulterior motive and would somehow be pulling strings to keep a trade from being made to help the Suns stay in the limelight, Sarver is a complete non-factor for the Suns. He’s suspended from being around the team and has announced he’s selling. Hell, if that theory was true, Hamstringing the team from making any moves to help them would only PROLONG Sarver sticking around because the team would be looked at as a distressed asset from outside buyers. So that theory makes zero sense in any way shape to me either.

I don't think there is an organized conspiracy that's why I said I don't believe there's an organized conspiracy. But yes, I believe we are not getting the benefit of the doubt that we'd normally get. I don't believe that Dick Bavetta was the only referee that operated that way, that made calls that support what he believed was best for the league. Suns winning while Sarver is still attached to this team is bad PR for the league. And no, I don't believe there has been a directive telling them to single us out.

 

[Yuma]

You guys are ridiculous with the conspiracy theories.

We are a perimeter team who also thrives on the midrange game. We have literally NO ONE who attacks the basket with force, including our own Center who shies away from contact his entire career.

As to the league has an ulterior motive and would somehow be pulling strings to keep a trade from being made to help the Suns stay in the limelight, Sarver is a complete non-factor for the Suns. He’s suspended from being around the team and has announced he’s selling. Hell, if that theory was true, Hamstringing the team from making any moves to help them would only PROLONG Sarver sticking around because the team would be looked at as a distressed asset from outside buyers. So that theory makes zero sense in any way shape to me either.

When you look back at other great Suns teams, there was always a Ceballos, Thunder Dan, Amare, etc., who drove to the basket and attacked it with force.

 

[Cheesebeef]

When you look back at other great Suns teams, there was always a Ceballos, Thunder Dan, Amare, etc., who drove to the basket and attacked it with force.

I don’t know that I’d put Ceballos or Thunder in there as much as I’d say Barkley was the one who forced the action and got fouls inside on those teams.

KJ also attacked the rim consistently… when on the court.

We don’t have a KJ or a Barkley/Amare type who puts pressure on the D that way.

 

[Superbone]

I don’t know that I’d put Ceballos or Thunder in there as much as I’d say Barkley was the one who forced the action and got fouls inside on those teams.

KJ also attacked the rim consistently… when on the court.

We don’t have a KJ or a Barkley/Amare type who puts pressure on the D that way.

Thunder Dan did in his early years for sure. That's how he got the nickname.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Thunder Dan did in his early years for sure. That's how he got the nickname.

The Thunder went away pretty quickly...Dan learned to love the 3.

 

[Superbone]

The Thunder went away pretty quickly...Dan learned to love the 3.

I got to go to a game early in Majerle's career when Barkley was still on the Sixers. Dan guarded Barkley and was in his shirt. Barkley didn't like it one bit but Dan never backed off. He was a defensive pest in those days. And he was very aggressive at taking it to the rim and dunking hard. But yeah, he did become mainly a three point shooter later in his career.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Thunder Dan did in his early years for sure. That's how he got the nickname.

from 1988-1992, agree. But "Thunder" got replaced by Crazy Dan Majerle range almost the moment Barkley showed up when he had to become a much better 3 point shooter to spread the floor.

 

[Muggz]

DA needs to see this!

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The original Lob City

 

[elindholm]

DA needs to see this!

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The original Lob City

People will say that Ayton doesn't have this in his personality, but it's so much more than that. Ayton also doesn't have the strength, quickness, or leaping ability. You could give him an attitude transplant and it wouldn't make that much difference.

 

[Cheesebeef]

People will say that Ayton doesn't have this in his personality, but it's so much more than that. Ayton also doesn't have the strength, quickness, or leaping ability. You could give him an attitude transplant and it wouldn't make that much difference.

He also doesn’t have Kemp’s natural handles, instincts.

 

[boisesuns]

He also doesn’t have Kemp’s natural handles, instincts.

Or number of children!

 

[Sparky16]

Ayton is utter trash, another solid 5-18 (-11) for those that used to preach about his shooting %. I pray to God he is slacking cause he knows he is on his way out - the other waste of space Shamet can be shipped out also. Lee can be the back up 2 who doesnt shrivel up we needed to hit a shot.

 

[Chaplin]

Ayton is utter trash, another solid 5-18 (-11) for those that used to preach about his shooting %. I pray to God he is slacking cause he knows he is on his way out - the other waste of space Shamet can be shipped out also. Lee can be the back up 2 who doesnt shrivel up we needed to hit a shot.

Yeah that would make sense. If you WANT to leave, you don't guarantee anything if you play like crap. Come on.

 

[Yuma]

Ayton is trade eligible today, and the clock is ticking louder on James Jones' desk

This is a good article by Bright Side Of The Suns with some insights from having covered the Suns on Ayton. I do think he's right that Ayton has checked out on the Suns. Ayton really doesn't espouse the goals and drive he once did in interviews. It seems he is just lacing them up and playing without much thought on playing with force.