The Biedrins Factor

[George O'Brien]

The Suns need to get bigger. They need guys who can play defense, rebound, block shots, and still score enough to be helpuful. The question is whether they can meet that need in the draft.

I am not inclined toward drafting "projects" who aren't expected to contribute for a long time. The simple truth is that most "projects" don't work out. Someone with enormous potential like Andriuskevicius is intriguing, but he is a long, long way from being even vaguely close to being able to play in the NBA. Likewise, it is hard for me to get excited about Pavel Podkolzine when he has not even started for his team in Italy (not to mention health issues). Ramos is another intriguing guy, but he is incredibly raw and doesn't play defense.

I don't think I am excessively impatient. For example, I still think Carbakapa will be a player, I'm very high on Lampe, I think Barbosa will become a very good player, and I even think Jacobsen will develop into a Steve Kerr type role player. But I can't see waiting three or four years to get ANY productivity from a player which is what I suspect is what taking Andriuskevicius or Podkolzine would mean. Certainly not with a #7 pick.

This brings us to Biedrins. He is commonly called the most NBA ready of the Euros. He dominated Petros in a Euro Leage game (Petros is getting mid first round consideration) and played against adults rather than just under 18's.
People who have seen him say he is very athletic and a good rebounder.

But how "ready" is he? He just turned 18 and reports from the rumor boards is that people question whether he is physically ready to play at the NBA level. Does that mean he would be another Darko and get under 200 minutes for the season? Does that mean he would be ready to contribute in a year after adjusting to the NBA and doing weight training? Or does it mean he is a real project and won't do much for several years.

I'm sure the Suns will give him a workout. If the like his skills and are just concerned about his strength, he would make more sense than a Josh Smith since Biedrins is so much bigger. (BTW, he is nearly 7' tall but has can jump 34"). I can justify waiting longer for a big man than another athletic mid sized guy, but not three or four years.

I can envision it going either way.

 

[JCSunsfan]

But how "ready" is he? He just turned 18 and reports from the rumor boards is that people question whether he is physically ready to play at the NBA level. Does that mean he would be another Darko and get under 200 minutes for the season? Does that mean he would be ready to contribute in a year after adjusting to the NBA and doing weight training? Or does it mean he is a real project and won't do much for several years.
I can envision it going either way.

Seems to me that Marti-vicious is a better comparison to Darko. Still 18 is so young.

 

[JerkFace]

Biedrins is one of three players that i hope the suns draft. Josh Smith and Andre Iguodala are the other two.

 

[Mainstreet]

George O'Brien The Suns need to get bigger. They need guys who can play defense, rebound, block shots, and still score enough to be helpuful. The question is whether they can meet that need in the draft.

I believe the Suns should address the C/PF position in the draft even if the player may take some time to develop... just as long as he is athletic and likely to develop given time. Where else can most teams get a quality NBA center? Few teams are likely to trade a budding star like Jermaine O'Neal as did Portland. However, I do not want another lumbering center like Big Jake. I would, however, like for him to be able to contribute a little his first year perhaps like an Andrew Lang.

If there is no future quality NBA center available to us in this draft, then Best Player Available should rule. I think what the Suns scouts think about the big men in this draft will determine which way the Suns go. If the Suns do not go big then players like a Josh Smith sound intriguing.

I'm counting on free agency or a trade for experienced help to address the C/PF and also the Guard position. I would not mind packing some more help around our current centers Voshkuhl and White and perhaps grabbing a center like a Foyle.

 

[pokerface]

For starters, there are no NBA ready big men...they're all projects until proven otherwise. So why not go for someone with the most possible upside? I dont want us taking one project player over another because one is more polished and contribute a tad more early....thats foolish. Let get some patience and gather the best players we can...no matter how long it takes! Once we get the talent it will come together at some point and we'll have a team that contends...maybe for a long time. I dont want us settling!

 

[George O'Brien]

For starters, there are no NBA ready big men...they're all projects until proven otherwise. So why not go for someone with the most possible upside? I dont want us taking one project player over another because one is more polished and contribute a tad more early....thats foolish. Let get some patience and gather the best players we can...no matter how long it takes! Once we get the talent it will come together at some point and we'll have a team that contends...maybe for a long time. I dont want us settling!

Most NBA players start showing if they are real players their second year. Dalembert is a great example. 177 minutes his rookie year and 2198 minutes his second year:

Samuel Dalembert
Philadelphia 76ers
Position: C
Height: 6-11 Weight: 250
College: Seton Hall '01

2003-04 Statistics
PPG 8.0
RPG 7.6
APG .3
SPG .54
BPG 2.30
FG% .541
FT% .644
3P% .000
MPG 26.8

Rookie years are almost always hard on players. They are not in NBA shape, they are not used to how much bigger, stronger, and faster the NBA is, and they are not used to brutal schedule.

But players who don't do much their second year are more troubling and by their third year risk being considered a bust if they don't contribute. So guys who aren't expected to do anything until their third-fourth year risk being free agents before they have proven they can even play.

I like Biedrins because I think he will be a player sooner - but also because I like what he will bring once he gets strong enough: tall, very long arms, agressive rebounder, shot blocker, defense oriented and good footwork in the low post. If all he has to do is get stronger, then he's my man.

However, if he is not as athletic and agressive as he is reported to be, I might change my mind.

 

[coloradosun]

I would rather us trade this year's pick and try to get a veteran center in return. We need some experienced defensive specialists this year to solidify the team in the paint. All of the centers in the draft are not impact players and I do not have the patient to wait either.

Remember we have two first round draft choices next year, providing the Cavs make the playoff. We could package both together if we need to move up or draft two biggies next year.

Add veterans now.

 

[George O'Brien]

I would rather us trade this year's pick and try to get a veteran center in return. We need some experienced defensive specialists this year to solidify the team in the paint. All of the centers in the draft are not impact players and I do not have the patient to wait either.

Remember we have two first round draft choices next year, providing the Cavs make the playoff. We could package both together if we need to move up or draft two biggies next year.

Add veterans now.

I can certainly imagine a trade, but I don't see anyone trading a center who can play who is not grossly overpaid or far too old.

One weird idea I had would be to trade the Suns #7 and Eisley to the Trailblazers for their #13 and Dale Davis. Davis is on the last year of his contract at $9 million and is strong defender/rebounder type player. The Trailblazers need a backup point guard and Davis is the odd man out since the Blazers picked up Ratliff and SAR. This only works if there is someone at #7 the Blazers really like such as Devin Harris.

 

[Mainstreet]

One weird idea I had would be to trade the Suns #7 and Eisley to the Trailblazers for their #13 and Dale Davis. Davis is on the last year of his contract at $9 million and is strong defender/rebounder type player.

If Eisley is the player included in this trade, I would seriously think about it. I think Phoenix can trade J. White for a second round pick. White has value if the Suns decide to move him.

It would also certainly help the Suns by giving them a veteran center/ power forward, free valuable capspace on Eisley and still give Phoenix the 13th pick.

This is just such an uncertain draft that some good players will probably slide. I would not be at all surprised if the Suns could get a player they like at the 13th pick.

 

[Joe Mama]

At the very least it's going to take Cleveland's first-round take to get rid of Jahidi White.

Joe Mama

 

[JCSunsfan]

At the very least it's going to take Cleveland's first-round take to get rid of Jahidi White.

Joe Mama

I think Charlotte will take him in the expansion draft with a cash-only incentive. We should not have to give up a pick to move Jahidi, and we could get something in return.

How much worse is Jahidi than the FA centers available this summer, really?

 

[Goldfield]

Although White is alittle over paid, I dont think he will be hard to move. He is a BIG tuff guy with onbly one year left on his deal.

There is no risk in adding White, I could see the Bobcats taking him just to give them some inside tuffness to a new franchise.

Bigs are ALOT easier to move then smalls... Eisley will be alot harder to move.

 

[Goldfield]

Will he make it passed Washington? What are the odds he is there at #7?


Biedrins seems like a real good fit in Phx. If he can play center for us, then he add alot to the defensive needs we have.


Of all the Centers in the draft other than Okafor, he gets my vote.

 

[Joe Mama]

I think Charlotte will take him in the expansion draft with a cash-only incentive. We should not have to give up a pick to move Jahidi, and we could get something in return.

How much worse is Jahidi than the FA centers available this summer, really?

this really isn't about what should or should not happen in a sane world. Unless they think they can get a team like Atlanta or Utah to take Jahidi White for a future draft pick the Phoenix Suns need Charlotte to take white. The bobcats are not going to do this for free. They will have many other teams offering more to do less. They know teams are desperate for salary-cap, especially the Phoenix Suns.

I keep saying that all you have to do is look at what the Phoenix Suns had to give up just to move Tom Gugliotta. The Charlotte bobcats are still going to be stuck paying Jahidi White $2.9 million next season. Utah actually saved money in the Gugliotta deal yet they required to first-round draft picks and a second-round pick to help the Suns save some money. Please don't forget also that the bobcats are going to be a player in free agency. They are going to require some compensation if they are going to help the Phoenix Suns compete with them in free agency.

It's going to take at least Cleveland's draft pick to move white in the expansion draft unless there is some unforeseen, creative, multi-team trade. I wouldn't be surprised if the bobcats hold out for the #7 draft pick either. I just hope that the Phoenix Suns wouldn't give it to them unless they are convinced that Kobe Bryant is legitimately interested in joining the team next season.

Joe Mama

 

[Chaplin]

I'm not sure why you think the Bobcats are like the villain with the handlebar moustache rubbing their hands together. Jahidi White will be one of the top options for the Bobcats in the expansion draft player-wise. 2.9 million for one of the better players available isn't that bad. I'm not sure why you think they're definitely going to try to take advantage of us. I don't expect them to want to make the playoffs right away, but I expect them to build their fan base by at least wanting to win some games and be competitive. Jahidi White does that. I think there's a very good chance that Charlotte takes Jahidi without the pick.

Now Howard Eisley, that's a different story.

 

[Mainstreet]

How much worse is Jahidi than the FA centers available this summer, really?

I agree totally. I would definitely not trade a first round pick to move White. In fact I think we should receive at least a second round pick if the Suns decide to move him.

Unlike Googs, I think White can still contribute to this team. If moving White (who will be in the last year of his contract) means giving up a first round pick, then the Suns should keep him.

If the Suns need to move a player to get more cap room, let's concentrate on moving Eisley. I might consider moving the 7th pick and Eisley if the Suns get something back (like the 13th pick) in George's idea.

 

[elindholm]

It's just good strategy on Charlotte's standpoint to get as much as they can. If they think that they can get the Suns to cough up a first-round pick along with cash to take White off their hands, then of course they should hold out for that. It has nothing to do with what kind of moustache Bickerstaf is sporting.

 

[hcsilla]

I think there's a very good chance that Charlotte takes Jahidi without the pick.

I think that there is no way that CHA takes White without the pick. Moreover I think that CHA will not take White at all. He would eat 20% of their cap space for what? For something what is very close to nothing.

 

[Chaplin]

I think that there is no way that CHA takes White without the pick. Moreover I think that CHA will not take White at all. He would eat 20% of their cap space for what? For something what is very close to nothing.

How do you figure that? If we also give Charlotte 3m, that saves them half his contract. Very close to nothing. Who else are they going to get? A free agent center this season will be much more expensive than Jahidi White, hate to tell you.

 

[Chaplin]

It's just good strategy on Charlotte's standpoint to get as much as they can. If they think that they can get the Suns to cough up a first-round pick along with cash to take White off their hands, then of course they should hold out for that. It has nothing to do with what kind of moustache Bickerstaf is sporting.

Good response, Einstein.

 

[F-Dog]

How do you figure that? If we also give Charlotte 3m, that saves them half his contract. Very close to nothing. Who else are they going to get? A free agent center this season will be much more expensive than Jahidi White, hate to tell you.

Well, rumor has it that Elden Campbell (1 yr, $4.4m) and Shawn Bradley (4 yrs, $18.5m) will both be left unprotected. Detroit could very well offer $3m to get rid of Campbell, who has ties to Charlotte from his stint with the Hornets.

Or, the Bobcats could draft somebody with one of the several picks they're expecting to get, or get a cheap free agent like Jason Collier, etc. They're not going to be forced to take anybody they don't want to.

 

[Chaplin]

Well, rumor has it that Elden Campbell (1 yr, $4.4m) and Shawn Bradley (4 yrs, $18.5m) will both be left unprotected. Detroit could very well offer $3m to get rid of Campbell, who has ties to Charlotte from his stint with the Hornets.

Or, the Bobcats could draft somebody with one of the several picks they're expecting to get, or get a cheap free agent like Jason Collier, etc. They're not going to be forced to take anybody they don't want to.

Jahidi White is much better than Elden Campbell. And younger.

 

[F-Dog]

Jahidi White is much better than Elden Campbell. And younger.

Campbell is cheaper, takes up less cap room, is more versatile, and since they're both in the last year of their contracts, age isn't all that important.

FWIW, Detroit isn't expecting to lose Elden Campbell without providing compensation, either. The buzz is that the Bobcats might take Shawn Bradley, but only if they can trade him to another team.

 

[elindholm]

Good response, Einstein.

Gee, thanks. Remind me why I ever bother to respond to your posts?

I guess it's you against the world on this one. The rest of the board thinks that Charlotte won't take White without compensation beyond the cash. But you think they will (or should, I'm not sure which). So we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[George O'Brien]

I've read the Shawn Bradly reports, but I'm not sure I really buy them. The Mavs may make him available, but I can't see them paying to get rid of him unless they have plans to take Ostertag as an FA. Getting smaller doesn't solve the Mavs problems and they are so far from the cap line it makes no difference.

On the other hand, I expect the Pistons to try to move Campbell unless they are giving up on re-signing Okur (who played all of six minutes last night with one turnover and one foul).