The Blacklist (NBC)

crisper57

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They confirmed he was in the fire with the burn marks on his back. I also agree that Spader deserves an emmy.

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Didn't he return to another house this season and set it on fire? I am pretty sure he did. So if Red is a pyro on-screen already, I would not be shocked to find out he set the original fire in order to "die" (disappear), but first, he'd have to drop his daughter off to be raised by a trusted friend.

If it plays out like that, it isn't much of a big reveal. I keep thinking they are going to throw a curve into that conclusion at some point, but all the clues keep pointing in that direction.
 

HoodieBets

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Didn't he return to another house this season and set it on fire? I am pretty sure he did. So if Red is a pyro on-screen already, I would not be shocked to find out he set the original fire in order to "die" (disappear), but first, he'd have to drop his daughter off to be raised by a trusted friend.

If it plays out like that, it isn't much of a big reveal. I keep thinking they are going to throw a curve into that conclusion at some point, but all the clues keep pointing in that direction.

Hard to believe a show this good would be that obvious

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Chaplin

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He's not her father. He's the guy that saved her from the fire and gave her to Sam, but he's not her father. He said he'd never lie to her, and for the most part, he's kept that promise. I just can't believe his ONLY lie to her is when he straight out said that he wasn't her father. He wasn't even vague about it.
 

crisper57

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He's not her father. He's the guy that saved her from the fire and gave her to Sam, but he's not her father. He said he'd never lie to her, and for the most part, he's kept that promise. I just can't believe his ONLY lie to her is when he straight out said that he wasn't her father. He wasn't even vague about it.

You say that, and I think this:

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AzStevenCal

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He's not her father. He's the guy that saved her from the fire and gave her to Sam, but he's not her father. He said he'd never lie to her, and for the most part, he's kept that promise. I just can't believe his ONLY lie to her is when he straight out said that he wasn't her father. He wasn't even vague about it.

You say that, and I think this:

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I agree with Crisper. He said what he said but I couldn't help hearing "I'm not your father, that title was earned by the man who raised you".

Steve
 

HoodieBets

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He's not her father. He's the guy that saved her from the fire and gave her to Sam, but he's not her father. He said he'd never lie to her, and for the most part, he's kept that promise. I just can't believe his ONLY lie to her is when he straight out said that he wasn't her father. He wasn't even vague about it.

The only other reason for him to be there are was he killed her father who could that be..Berlin?

Red said her father died in that fire and I was taking that as something that is not literal so he didnt lie a piece of him did die in the fire. I don't remember him flatly stating I'm not your father. I know she asked and I think he said Sam is your father.

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Chaplin

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The only other reason for him to be there are was he killed her father who could that be..Berlin?

Red said her father died in that fire and I was taking that as something that is not literal so he didnt lie a piece of him did die in the fire. I don't remember him flatly stating I'm not your father. I know she asked and I think he said Sam is your father.

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He flatly said that he wasn't her father. She asked him point blank and he said no. My theory is that her father (whether he is Berlin or someone else) is the one who started the fire. Red saved her, gave her to Sam and Sam told her the lie that her father died in the fire.

The question then comes to what is the relationship of Red to the father, and why did Red save her in the first place?

As for Berlin, it starts to make some sense that Lizzie might be his daughter, although it doesn't explain why the Stewmaker had a picture of her. Berlin was a criminal who had a daughter--he double-crossed Red or something similar, so maybe Red set the fire--Berlin escaped, but Red got Lizzie and took her to Sam. Berlin didn't know that, so in order to get leverage or draw him out, Red starts sending body parts to Berlin (obviously not Lizzie's). At some point, Berlin thinks Lizzie is now dead and wants revenge on Red (hence the takeover of the bunker just to get him). But then Berlin finds out Lizzie is alive and sends a lackey to "watch" over her instead of going to her himself, likely because of Red's proximity to her. Enter Tom Keen. Just a theory.
 
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crisper57

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He flatly said that he wasn't her father. She asked him point blank and he said no. My theory is that her father (whether he is Berlin or someone else) is the one who started the fire. Red saved her, gave her to Sam and Sam told her the lie that her father died in the fire.

The question then comes to what is the relationship of Red to the father, and why did Red save her in the first place?

As for Berlin, it starts to make some sense that Lizzie might be his daughter, although it doesn't explain why the Stewmaker had a picture of her. Berlin was a criminal who had a daughter--he double-crossed Red or something similar, so maybe Red set the fire--Berlin escaped, but Red got Lizzie and took her to Sam. Berlin didn't know that, so in order to get leverage or draw him out, Red starts sending body parts to Berlin (obviously not Lizzie's). At some point, Berlin thinks Lizzie is now dead and wants revenge on Red (hence the takeover of the bunker just to get him). But then Berlin finds out Lizzie is alive and sends a lackey to "watch" over her instead of going to her himself, likely because of Red's proximity to her. Enter Tom Keen. Just a theory.

Good theory, but it doesn't explain Red's obsession with Lizzy. Why is he obsessed with her? Why does he trust her? Why is he seemingly willing to risk his life, or at least his freedom, to protect her? Even if she ends up being just a critical pawn in some plan of his, it makes no sense for him to sacrifice his life for hers. Despite all his scheming, I think he'd prefer to live to see Lizzy's purpose play out. And I can't help but think only a parent's love would override his instinct to survive at all costs.
 

Chaplin

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Good theory, but it doesn't explain Red's obsession with Lizzy. Why is he obsessed with her? Why does he trust her? Why is he seemingly willing to risk his life, or at least his freedom, to protect her? Even if she ends up being just a critical pawn in some plan of his, it makes no sense for him to sacrifice his life for hers. Despite all his scheming, I think he'd prefer to live to see Lizzy's purpose play out. And I can't help but think only a parent's love would override his instinct to survive at all costs.

She's also his only link to the FBI--regardless of his relationship to her, his association with the FBI allows him to do certain things for his own business. Probably reaching, but there's that.

As for his reasons, I don't know. He certainly considers himself a father-figure, and is probably guilty about Sam's death as well.

I just think it's really, really weak if he does turn out to be her father--it's been foreshadowed ad nauseum, and I always thought the way the rest of the show is written, it MUST be a misdirection.
 

crisper57

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She's also his only link to the FBI--regardless of his relationship to her, his association with the FBI allows him to do certain things for his own business. Probably reaching, but there's that.

As for his reasons, I don't know. He certainly considers himself a father-figure, and is probably guilty about Sam's death as well.

I just think it's really, really weak if he does turn out to be her father--it's been foreshadowed ad nauseum, and I always thought the way the rest of the show is written, it MUST be a misdirection.


Agree 100%
 
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Brian in Mesa

Brian in Mesa

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Holy cow. Didn't realize this show was still on TV...

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Covert Rain

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I don't think I have ever felt so robbed from a show I loved so much. The entire narrative was around her finding out the truth and the writers robbed us of that. Unforgivable.

I checked out after Liz's death.
 

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