The defense needs their Boldin too

[Jetstream Green]

The offense seems a lot better now that they have a young star like Boldin, what does the defense really have? We need playmakers on both sides of the ball...SEAN TAYLOR will give the defense that playmaker the offense already has in Boldin.

Taylor! Taylor! Taylor!

 

[CardinalChris]

I agree the offense has more talent, not that being better our offense isn't saying too much.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

The offense seems a lot better now that they have a young star like Boldin, what does the defense really have? We need playmakers on both sides of the ball...SEAN TAYLOR will give the defense that playmaker the offense already has in Boldin.

Taylor! Taylor! Taylor!

 

[azdad1978]

The offense seems a lot better now that they have a young star like Boldin, what does the defense really have? We need playmakers on both sides of the ball...SEAN TAYLOR will give the defense that playmaker the offense already has in Boldin.

Taylor! Taylor! Taylor!

 

[Red Air Force]

I've already decided that I'll be happy with any player in the top 7, and If Fitz is there at 3, I think we have to take him.

However, I'm secretly hoping that Oak takes him from us, and forces us to draft Taylor.

To me Fitzgerald is the safe bet, and the easy choice, whereas Taylor is where the big money is. A real high risk/ high reward descision.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I've already decided that I'll be happy with any player in the top 7, and If Fitz is there at 3, I think we have to take him.

However, I'm secretly hoping that Oak takes him from us, and forces us to draft Taylor.

To me Fitzgerald is the safe bet, and the easy choice, whereas Taylor is where the big money is. A real high risk/ high reward descision.

Now see, I was just thinking the opposite.

Who would be more productive in 2004 at the SS postion: Sean Taylor or Adrian Wilson?

Now who would be more productive at the #2 WR spot, Fitz or BJ?

In terms of need, and the difference in production on the field, to me, Taylor is clearly the safer pick. We are guaranteed to upgrade our defense if we pick Taylor.

If we pick up Fitz, is there an upgrade in our offense? I'm just not so sure.

 

[BACH]

Now see, I was just thinking the opposite.

Who would be more productive in 2004 at the SS postion: Sean Taylor or Adrian Wilson?

Now who would be more productive at the #2 WR spot, Fitz or BJ?

In terms of need, and the difference in production on the field, to me, Taylor is clearly the safer pick. We are guaranteed to upgrade our defense if we pick Taylor.

If we pick up Fitz, is there an upgrade in our offense? I'm just not so sure.

If you're looking for the biggest upgrade - trade down and take Wilfolk...

 

[Assface]

I love how we now refer to playmakers as "Boldins".

 

[Assface]

If you're looking for the biggest upgrade - trade down and take Wilfolk...

You sir, are a smart man. (except for misspelling Wilfork, but you're heart is in the right place)

 

[vikesfan]

The Cards offense and defense were terrible last year. What do you do if you want start winning now. Fix one side of the ball.

How much impact will Taylor have? I don't think he will make as much diffence as Fitz.

Complete one side of the ball. Put in an offense that can win and compete. Next year build the defense.

You put in Fitz and Josh has a better chance to succeed. That is very very important Fitz can kill two birds with one stone. Who will Taylor make better on defense?

People forget offense helps defense if you keep going three and out you could have the best defense in the world and they will breakdown.

The offense with a Fitz, a Boldin, a Jones, a Josh, a Shelton, and a Shipp could be good enough to be a winner in the nfl .

Add in 1 OL and a speed RB and this team is pretty much set on offense. (We'll find out about Big, Josh, and Shipp.)

(2) Then worry about the defense.
The OLBS. The CBs. The DL. Use the later rounds and next year's draft and FA to finish off the defense.

(3) Remember FA was used for the defense this year. It has not been ignored.

 

[Assface]

People forget offense helps defense if you keep going three and out you could have the best defense in the world and they will breakdown.

Defense also helps offense by virtue of field position and turnovers. If a defense keeps the other team off the field with 3 and outs that gives your offense more chance with the ball. Scoring 30 points a game is great unless you're giving up more than that on defense.

Offense and Defense feed off of eachother, losing 3-0 or 33-30 is still losing. Go with the player you think will have the most overall impact, not just most impact on one predetermined side of the ball. I believe that player is Wilfork. You've stated many times DG wanted Sapp but wasn't allowed to take him. VW should be at least as good as Sapp. He can have an impact of about 40 plays per game. (Teams average about 60 plays on offense, if he plays 2/3 of the downs that's 40 plays.) A pro bowl reciever averages 8 catches per game.

 

[vikesfan]

Defense also helps offense by virtue of field position and turnovers. If a defense keeps the other team off the field with 3 and outs that gives your offense more chance with the ball. Scoring 30 points a game is great unless you're giving up more than that on defense.

Offense and Defense feed off of eachother, losing 3-0 or 33-30 is still losing. Go with the player you think will have the most overall impact, not just most impact on one predetermined side of the ball. I believe that player is Wilfork. You've stated many times DG wanted Sapp but wasn't allowed to take him. VW should be at least as good as Sapp. He can have an impact of about 40 plays per game. (Teams average about 60 plays on offense, if he plays 2/3 of the downs that's 40 plays.) A pro bowl reciever averages 8 catches per game.

Sapp was at #11 iirc. I would take Wilfork at #11. He also had a good offensive team when he went Sapp hunting. The thing to realize is EVEN with Boldin catching 100 balls the Cards finished last in offense.
Obviously the Cards need more on offense to win in the NFL. Another primetime WR can. Or maybe a primetime TE even.

Good teams build on strength. Think about this strategy it works.

 

[Assface]

The thing to realize is EVEN with Boldin catching 100 balls the Cards finished last in offense.
Obviously the Cards need more on offense to win in the NFL. Another primetime WR can. Or maybe a primetime TE even.

rank category
27 total yards offense
32 total points
23 total passing
29 total rushing
29 giveaways

We passed ok but were bottom of the barrel in rushing and scoring. If you think we need to improve the offense RB would be a better fit than a new WR, especially since Bryant Johnson should be much better this year and will catch 60+ balls. Better QB play from Josh will help the situation also. Neither WR or TE are the missing puzzle piece here.

 

[vikesfan]

rank category
27 total yards offense
32 total points
23 total passing
29 total rushing
29 giveaways

We passed ok but were bottom of the barrel in rushing and scoring. If you think we need to improve the offense RB would be a better fit than a new WR, especially since Bryant Johnson should be much better this year and will catch 60+ balls. Better QB play from Josh will help the situation also. Neither WR or TE are the missing puzzle piece here.

23 in passing is not okay that is bad.
Well when Boldin is doubled the team will not score or move the chains. If this team wants to score it needs two WRs worthy of double coverage. Once that happens the run game can open up. No RB in this draft is worth a #3 pick. But maybe in round 2 or 3 the rb does get picked. Winslow and Taylor are mentioned as players because they could be superstars but Fitz could too and he is the best need fit. The Cards do not have a legit #2 WR they do have a legit NFL FS and TE.

Ultimately, the key is not to blow picks but get the picks that can help start winning sooner then later.

 

[Assface]

. If this team wants to score it needs two WRs worthy of double coverage.

Anquan Boldin + Bryant Johnson (1st round pick, 4.40 speed, 6'2" 214 lbs) = 2 recievers teams will have to watch out for. Add 55+ catch TE Freddie Jones and you have 3 quality passing targets.

Last year BJ was a rookie, injured and we had Jeff Blake as our starting QB. I think we have the pieces in place for DG to have a succesfull offense. That is his specialty, isn't it? The way I see it he should be able to make do with less talent on offense (even though we already have more talent on O than D) and we should focus on getting players for the defense where we don't have a master schemer. Or do you think DG was only succesfull because of Moss and needs another WR to make the offense look good?

 

[vikesfan]

Anquan Boldin + Bryant Johnson (1st round pick, 4.40 speed, 6'2" 214 lbs) = 2 recievers teams will have to watch out for. Add 55+ catch TE Freddie Jones and you have 3 quality passing targets.

Last year BJ was a rookie, injured and we had Jeff Blake as our starting QB. I think we have the pieces in place for DG to have a succesfull offense. That is his specialty, isn't it? The way I see it he should be able to make do with less talent on offense (even though we already have more talent on O than D) and we should focus on getting players for the defense where we don't have a master schemer. Or do you think DG was only succesfull because of Moss and needs another WR to make the offense look good?

B Johnson is a maybe. If you can guarantee to me he will be as good as Fitz then I would pass on Fitz! But you can't make that guarantee no one can.

The reason DG was successful was because he made good draft and FA choices and then coached the hell out of people. Make no mistake DG had talented players. He drafted really well and did pretty good in FA.

The reason he was successful cause he ran his offense which features a lot of 3 WR sets. This team lacks a #2 WR for that set maybe Johnson could be that guy or maybe Poole could be or Gilmore or maybes just aren't good enough?

Believe me I wish the Cards had more picks but they don't so DG has to make the call on that pick given his track record, he is a good person to be making that choice. Heck my choice was Gallery. But for a DG team the choice might be Fitz. I think DG has a plan.

 

[BACH]

B Johnson is a maybe. If you can guarantee to me he will be as good as Fitz then I would pass on Fitz! But you can't make that guarantee no one can.

It goes both ways.... Can you garantee Fitz is going to be as good as Johnson?

I've said a million time, Johnson is going to be pretty good. He was overshadowed by Boldin, but he still was the 3rd best rookie WR. It usually takes a couple of year for receivers to adjust to the NFL, and Johnson right on par with what you can expect from a mid 1st rounder.

 

[WildBB]

If it was me, which it aint, but anyway, barring no trade down I'd go:

1- Taylor
2- Olshansky or Tubbs
3- Colbert or the Clemson WR D. Hamilton
4-6 CB, LB & OL

That's how I think they'd make the most headway, this year.

Quote Spanky1:

I watched Clemson quite a bit and am VERY high on Hamilton. Krang and I tossed around the idea of him in round #3 a long time ago.....he'll be a pleasant surprise for whoever drafts him.

Quote Krang:

He probably will be... He has size, speed, and playmaking ability.

Clemson is one of the better schools at recruiting receivers, at the expense of the real USC (South Carolina) . Hamiliton is every bit as good as Rod Gardener was coming out, he is just coming out in a much better receiving class.

Point is there are alot of good recievers this year who will make an impact somewhere. Fitz is a special case. But so is Taylor.

 

[vikesfan]

It goes both ways.... Can you garantee Fitz is going to be as good as Johnson?

I've said a million time, Johnson is going to be pretty good. He was overshadowed by Boldin, but he still was the 3rd best rookie WR. It usually takes a couple of year for receivers to adjust to the NFL, and Johnson right on par with what you can expect from a mid 1st rounder.

Well there are no guarantees but yeah I think Fitz will be better then Johnson. I think he is the safest pick at WR since Moss. If he busts I will be shocked. At worse the dude will be a solid WR at best he will be a pro-bowler. There are no guarantees. I think he is a safer pick then Taylor, Roy or Mike, Kellen (off field), Wilfork, - only Gallery is safer.

 

[BACH]

Well there are no guarantees but yeah I think Fitz will be better then Johnson. I think he is the safest pick at WR since Moss. If he busts I will be shocked. At worse the dude will be a solid WR at best he will be a pro-bowler. There are no guarantees. I think he is a safer pick then Taylor, Roy or Mike, Kellen (off field), Wilfork, - only Gallery is safer.

I agree with you. Fitz and Gallery are the two safest picks in my opinion and my choice is Fitz at #3, too. I was just trying to point out that Fitz isn't a garanteed star either. Johnson was considered a slight reach at #17, but he'll still turn out to be much better than Travis Taylor, who was considered a steal at #10. You just never know how good a player is going to be in the pros.

 

[vikesfan]

I agree with you. Fitz and Gallery are the two safest picks in my opinion and my choice is Fitz at #3, too. I was just trying to point out that Fitz isn't a garanteed star either. Johnson was considered a slight reach at #17, but he'll still turn out to be much better than Travis Taylor, who was considered a steal at #10. You just never know how good a player is going to be in the pros.

Oh yeah when you look back at "sure fire" picks even in the first round who did not make, it is scarey, drafting is really scarey thing.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

rank category
27 total yards offense
32 total points
23 total passing
29 total rushing
29 giveaways

We passed ok but were bottom of the barrel in rushing and scoring. If you think we need to improve the offense RB would be a better fit than a new WR, especially since Bryant Johnson should be much better this year and will catch 60+ balls. Better QB play from Josh will help the situation also. Neither WR or TE are the missing puzzle piece here.

We could debate forever why the offense and defense were so bad last year. Coaching, players, injuries... they all played a part.

But if you're looking at Wilfork vs Winslow vs Taylor vs Fitz, ask yourself which position was weakest last year, DT, TE, SS, or WR. Its either DT or SS hands down. So, Wilfork or Taylor will provide the biggest, immediate, upgrade.

If we get Fitz, its not the end of the world. Denny knows a million times more about football than me, and, if the thinks Fitz is the BPA, then so be it.

But my gut tells me that as far as upside, Taylor has a better shot at making the pro bowl than Fitz.

 

[Duckjake]

We could debate forever why the offense and defense were so bad last year. Coaching, players, injuries... they all played a part.

But if you're looking at Wilfork vs Winslow vs Taylor vs Fitz, ask yourself which position was weakest last year, DT, TE, SS, or WR. Its either DT or SS hands down. So, Wilfork or Taylor will provide the biggest, immediate, upgrade.

If we get Fitz, its not the end of the world. Denny knows a million times more about football than me, and, if the thinks Fitz is the BPA, then so be it.

But my gut tells me that as far as upside, Taylor has a better shot at making the pro bowl than Fitz.

I agree with you. The defense has been THE problem with the team for the last 5 years. They could get Taylor and maybe the DT from LSU in the 3rd if they're lucky and a WR in the 2nd.

It is not that easy for teams to stop Boldin. If it were they would have done it last season. Yet Boldin actually had better games in the 2nd half of the season than he did in the first.

Week 12--- 6/123 2TD's vs Rams
Week 14 -- 9/123 1 TD vs 49ers
Week 16 -- 10/122 1 TD vs Seattle
And 7/73 against probably the best defense they faced against Carolina.
I doubt the Q was "sneaking up" on anybody at week 16.

So it would seem to me that shoring up the D would be a bigger priority than adding another WR.

Doubt that it will happen though given Green's history. 3 wideouts and 35-33 games are just fine too.

 

[dopleganger]

Sapp was at #11 iirc. I would take Wilfork at #11. He also had a good offensive team when he went Sapp hunting. The thing to realize is EVEN with Boldin catching 100 balls the Cards finished last in offense.
Obviously the Cards need more on offense to win in the NFL. Another primetime WR can. Or maybe a primetime TE even.

Good teams build on strength. Think about this strategy it works.

The Vikes never had a good defense and they suck even now.