The Devin Booker non-appreciation thread.

[1tinsoldier]

Get out of the Booker business while you still can get close to top dollar

yes, Finito, finito already. It's time to get back to the business of winning and competing for a championship. And out of the Booker business the Suns and Arizona Sports has been in for a decade. I'm sick of the hype and the glorification with nothing to show for it but his name on sneakers and face on posters and video games.

 

[how_sweet_it_is]

Because the Suns have some fairly impressive drafted rookies in Dunn and Ighodaro, I might be willing to back away from wanting to keep Booker. Unless they throw Dunn and Ighodaro away, Booker is technically not the Suns' only home-drafted product. Just the most successful. But he has plateaued and also displayed his lack of fire or leadership. Dunn or Ighodaro might display more give-a-**** than Booker.

 

[1tinsoldier]

unfortunately, however, the "top dollar" opportunity has passed. And that was validated yesterday with him being voted only "9th GUARD in THE WEST." Top dollar was for the brief period someone other than a local fan considered him close to being a top 10 PLAYER in THE LEAGUE! And, perhaps, that was what all the Booker hype this month was about. Shoring up his face value because the All Star designation is to the NBA market, what an Oscar nomination is to a film's marketability.

 

[AzStevenCal]

unfortunately, however, the "top dollar" opportunity has passed. And that was validated yesterday with him being voted only "9th GUARD in THE WEST." Top dollar was for the brief period someone other than a local fan considered him close to being a top 10 PLAYER in THE LEAGUE! And, perhaps, that was what all the Booker hype this month was about. Shoring up his face value because the All Star designation is to the NBA market, what an Oscar nomination is to a film's marketability.

The main difference between your opinion on Devin and mine is that you believe today's mediocre version is all he's ever been and I believe this isn't the same Booker we used to see. Watching him play he just doesn't measure up to his old self and hasn't for a few years now. He's gone from arguably a top 5 to top 10 player to maybe a top 50 player. That's a huge drop from someone still in his prime with no major injury problem. Part of it has to do with all the time he's playing at the PG position but that seems to be where they want him despite his inability to guard that position.

 

[1tinsoldier]

The main difference between your opinion on Devin and mine is that you believe today's mediocre version is all he's ever been and I believe this isn't the same Booker we used to see. Watching him play he just doesn't measure up to his old self and hasn't for a few years now. He's gone from arguably a top 5 to top 10 player to maybe a top 50 player. That's a huge drop from someone still in his prime with no major injury problem. Part of it has to do with all the time he's playing at the PG position but that seems to be where they want him despite his inability to guard that position.

actually, 7 years ago, i thought he had unlimited potential as a scorer but his flaws would prevent him from being a winner on a winning team. Since his flaws were correctable, i thought he had the potential to round out his game with a strong coach, but i wouldn't bet on it. I hoped he would learn from CP3, and indeed that was his peak, but that time has passed. He is who he is. The only thing that might help him and us now, is for him to move on to new environment where he has to learn to play within a system without a built-in fanbase that his coach has to cater to.

 

[1tinsoldier]

i hate to be a debbie-downer, but for the sake of my 300 hours of Suns spectating each season becoming more fruitful instead of frustrating in the near future, i must again object to the dumbing down of Suns fans into complacency that is taking place with the Booker media blitz.

last night they highlighted his 6 game winners in 10 years. Do the friggin math. As "the man/go-to" guy, he must take at least 6 of those shots every year. That's a 10% success rate, and in the ballpark with his 2 minute clutch stats. For reference, Jordan made 50 in his 15 years. Kobe made 24, Barkley made 21.

in 50 years of watching NBA ball i've never seen anything like this fanfare just for a player scoring the most points with one team -- especially when it's mostly due to pure longevity and how many shots he takes, and it has only resulted in one good playoff run (with a Hall-Of-Famer), and several historic meltdowns.

every team has, and will always have a Booker -- a top scorer between 22 to 26 points per game. If that player is not an inspirational or bright leader who makes teammates better, isn't a good defender, and can't will a team to wins in tight games, all the hype amounts to is moving some merchandise and $15 beers.

 

[1tinsoldier]

trade Booker for Lebron. And work in Austin Reeves if possible. We'd have a better shot now, then Lebron and KD retire and we rebuild.

 

[BirdGangThing]

trade Booker for Lebron. And work in Austin Reeves if possible. We'd have a better shot now, then Lebron and KD retire and we rebuild.

yeah because book and luka are such good friends! this is a great idea - idk why nobody's thought of it

 

[1tinsoldier]

still working the sarcasm, huh? you think Luka and Booker are looking to make friends when there's fame and fortune to be had? It wouldn't be the first time fierce competitors joined forces. Just ask KD and Barkley about that.

the only player that wouldn't play with Booker is Paul George. And that's because Booker called him a "lazy n!"

 

[1tinsoldier]

actually, it's a deal that works out for everybody

* Luka is one of the very few players he could pair with to really compete. He's everything Booker's not -- a point guard, a leader, and crunch-time clutch shooter. Booker would get plenty of opportunities throughout the game and Luka would take over in the end for the Lakers, so he doesn't. Booker would get a chance to return to his form under CP3.

* the Suns would increase their short term chances and have a short rebuild instead of dragging out another decade of futility trying to build around Book's bloated salary and limitations.

 

[95pro]

yeah because book and luka are such good friends! this is a great idea - idk why nobody's thought of it

They did hang out over the last two summers I think. One in Mexico?

 

[BirdGangThing]

They did hang out over the last two summers I think. One in Mexico?

yup - found the pic to prove it - i didn't know book had all those tats tho

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[1tinsoldier]

Booker has previously stated that his relationship with Doncic is in a good place, saying they both have respect for each other. “Me and Luka’s respect for each other has been mutual and at a high level since he came into the league,” Booker said earlier this season.“Obviously, a playoff series gets super competitive, as every game does. But the world just takes it and runs with it and that’s fine, it’s good for the game.” -basketballforever.com

 

[Proximo]

I am actually with you on multiple opinions about Booker but I totally disagree with your take on the other thread. You being called out has nothing to do with not wanting any critical thinking.

That is a Booker appreciation thread. I have expressed that I don't think Booker is the best player ever in a Suns uniform. I stand by that opinion. I think he is the best scorer in Suns history but he wasn't as good as Nash or Charles in terms of overall impact to the team or his overall impact to the league (Nash and Barkley were MVPs and perennial all-stars). He simply isn't on their level and I am sticking to it.

I didn't do what you have done on that thread despite agreeing with you with some of your points about him. The mods are 100% correct that constantly criticizing him on that thread (even if he deserves some of it) is not what that thread is for. That's what the game threads are for and evidently this thread.

I agree that for short stints of time both Barkley and Nash have outperformed him, but if you look at the totality of their respective Suns careers, I think Book is the best overall Sun in terms of total contributions to the team.

 

[Proximo]

trade Booker for Lebron. And work in Austin Reeves if possible. We'd have a better shot now, then Lebron and KD retire and we rebuild.

That is just really dumb.

Booker is the only hope we have of getting multiple firsts, the last thing we need to do is trade him for a 40 year old.

 

[elindholm]

yup - found the pic to prove it - i didn't know book had all those tats tho

You must be registered for see images attach

Booker's the one in the blue shirt, right? Are those guys really all taller than Doncic?

 

[BirdGangThing]

Booker's the one in the blue shirt, right? Are those guys really all taller than Doncic?

idk - book also cuts his t-shirt sleeves off so could be far left

 

[AZ Native]

I actually had a dream about Booker and the Suns last night. I have never dreamed of the local sports teams, except for the Cardinals, and those were not dreams, only nightmares. So I dreamt that Book became the scoring leader tonight and immediately the Suns traded him before the trade deadline. No more drinking before bedtime.

 

[1tinsoldier]

That is just really dumb.

Booker is the only hope we have of getting multiple firsts, the last thing we need to do is trade him for a 40 year old.

oh, and it's smart to go for future firsts now when we've already invested in Durant and Beal to win now? My dumb idea is to finish out Ishbia's plan for 2 years, then rebuild via free agency. Either we go for it or rebuild. No half-assed approach. If we want to go with a rebuild now, we trade Durant too to get back the draft assets.

and to think, i gave you credit for thinking outside the box on the Luka fiasco

 

[1tinsoldier]

this post is a non-appreciation of the die-hard Booker fans who doomed this franchise. Look away if you're still one of them. Or if you're not up for a long, painful read.

it started with Booker being the owner's pet (Sarver). For the first half of Booker's decade in phx (leading a bottom-feeding team), fans had reason to believe his ceiling was unlimited. But he never showed signs of correcting his weaknesses until CP3 arrived. CP3's 2nd season turned into the Suns best ever, but ended with a Luka induced meltdown. Suns fans were ready to blow it up. But they quickly returned to Booker's corner while CP3 was discarded without even an offer of a reduced role and salary.

The Suns #1 clutch shooting turned into the NBA's worst and struggles to make the playoffs. A (finally) healthy pair of superstars alongside Booker couldn't keep them from being swept in round 1. Though Booker performed poorly in the series, the cries to blow the team up again turned into "blame everyone but Booker." Objectively, the evidence indicates the opposite.

Durant is the team's top scorer and most consistent, including in the clutch. The team is 1 and 10 without him. Booker has been inconsistent, his clutch shooting is 18%, and he's the worst rated defender in Suns history -- currently ranked 12th worst in the league.

Booker fans cite his "loyalty" as a reason to keep him. But it's the Suns loyalty that stands out. Phx management never denied him anything, including one of the top 5 salaries in the world, 7 different coaches who allowed him to play "Booker ball," and 4 or 5 roster rebuilds around him. Despite his statistical failings and lack of results, he was never "on the table" and, bizarelly, still isn't. And despite him making $18,000 per minute on the floor, critiquing his performance is generally dismissed as "Booker hating."

Today, Arizona sports demonstrated their as-usual protection of the company's best selling product with this remark: "I'm not blaming Booker. To be clear, I'm not blaming Booker, but you have to take a look at the common denominator. Who's been with the Suns through all of their problems. Only Devin Booker and James Jones." Get it? The scapegoat is now James Jones for putting together a team that still looks great on paper (except for having it's 2 top player's into iso ball, but that's for the coach to correct). Jones now follows Nurkic as the scapegoat. But 2 months without Nurk was even worse, so Bradley Beal took the blame -- though his overall offense and defense stats per minute blurs the line between his value and Booker's.

And that bring us to the steaming pile of crap we're sitting in today. Beal should feel dismissed. Tyus Jones should be pissed. He was told he was needed, but the failed Point-Book experiment still, too often, continues. Hall of Famer, Kevin Durant should feel dissed because, despite him being relatively healthy, the team's best performer, and exactly the guy the Suns traded for, the team tried to unload his 2 year salary instead of the other guy's super-max 4 year commitment though he didn't even make the All Star team.

Booker fans asked for it again. And got it again. Another dysfunctional team going nowhere behind their home-grown, Michigan-born favorite. Enjoy the next 100 hours of sub-par basketball played by uninspired, unbonded teammates going nowhere. Then, you can talk about the next Booker rebuild all summer.

good luck

 

[CardNots]

I’m guessing 10 pages or more..

 

[Hoop Head]

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[1tinsoldier]

and the more the evidence is clarified and detailed the more the replies get cryptic, dismissive and antagonistic. Psychological studies report that once emotions are invested in an idea, uncomfortable facts, science, and reason only make the experimental group dig in their heels further. Their defense mechanism is to shoot the messenger and dismiss them as just a "hater." In this case, the irony is that they've just become a 1tinsoldier-hater rejecting information as "fake news" even as the evidence before their own eyes indicates their cult-like attachment to one person or idea is in opposition to their own best interest. In this case, preventing them from enjoying more competitive basketball for 300 hours each season.

 

[1tinsoldier]

what a surprise! The reports are indeed that Durant feels dissed. Outside the local fan's Booker bubble, these players live and breath basketball. They know the deal.

* they see the local media's relentless hype around Booker -- with their careers and family's lives on the trading block -- while the Prince of Paradise Valley is immune!

* they know Booker takes over and doesn't deliver in the clutch while they're standing there wide open -- having been elite basketball stars most of their lives!

* they must resent that it's always them being accused of not putting in the effort, while the anointed one is often unfocused and is the worst rated defender in Suns history!

evidence of the eyes:

1. Durant started the year focused on leading the Suns. And did. To a 10 and 2 start. 1 and 10 without him.
2. Booker started in a funk. Probably because Jones was hired to replace Point Book and Durant became the de-facto "man" on the team.
3. Booker came to life amidst the hype and his desire to break the Suns scoring title (most points and most shot attempts). The game after, he had 6 turnovers in the first half and the Suns lost by 31.
4. Nurkic played reasonably well until the fans turned on him, then fell apart, and was alienated.
5. Durant, suddenly, started looking his age, coincidentally, as soon as the rumors started that the "Suns were taking calls on moving him."

What's "the problem in the locker room?" that Wolf on sports radio keeps talking about? You tell me, fans.