The Draft made us better, but did we fall further behind in the NFCW

[SissyBoyFloyd]

I think we helped ourselves in relation to the Super Bowl Champ Seattle, but when I look at the Niners and Rams drafts, both being A+, I can't help thinking we took what could be a big step backward.

Niners:
1 Jimmie Ward
2 Carlos Hyde
3 Marcus Martin
3 Chris Borland
3 Brandon Thomas
4 Bruce Ellington
4 Dontae Johnson
5 Aaron Lynch

Rams:
1 G. Robinson
1 A. Donald
2 L. Joyner
3 T. Mason
4 M. Alexander
6 E. Gaines
6 G. Gilbert
7 M. Van Dyk
7 C. Bryant
7 M. Sam
7 D. Rhaney

 

[Totally_Red]

Too much focus exclusively on the draft. When you combine free agency and the draft, the Cardinals are doing OK.

You can't ignore the losses by SF and Seattle in free agency, and the Cardinal acquisitions. Even after losing Karlos Dansby, the signings of Jared Veldheer, Ted Ginn Jr., Ted Larson, John Carlson, and Antonio Cromartie were far more impressive than anything the Niners or Seahawks did in free agency.

Don't focus on one part of the offseason. Focus on the entire offseason. You'll feel better about the Cardinals. It's still a tough road to hoe, but it ain't impossible.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Maybe in the long run, but I doubt many rookies will have significant impact next year.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I think we helped ourselves in relation to the Super Bowl Champ Seattle, but when I look at the Niners and Rams drafts, both being A+, I can't help thinking we took what could be a big step backward.

Niners:
1 Jimmie Ward
2 Carlos Hyde
3 Marcus Martin
3 Chris Borland
3 Brandon Thomas
4 Bruce Ellington
4 Dontae Johnson
5 Aaron Lynch

Rams:
1 G. Robinson
1 A. Donald
2 L. Joyner
3 T. Mason
4 M. Alexander
6 E. Gaines
6 G. Gilbert
7 M. Van Dyk
7 C. Bryant
7 M. Sam
7 D. Rhaney

Rams had a nice draft, but how many times have I typed that out in many a offseason about the Rams.

Niners draft was very average IMHO.

I actually think the Cardinals did the most to improve their team on the field, since 5 out of the Cardinals 7 picks could see the field, and I would believe 4 out of the seven most definitely will.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Too much focus exclusively on the draft. When you combine free agency and the draft, the Cardinals are doing OK.

You can't ignore the losses by SF and Seattle in free agency, and the Cardinal acquisitions. Even after losing Karlos Dansby, the signings of Jared Veldheer, Ted Ginn Jr., Ted Larson, John Carlson, and Antonio Cromartie were far more impressive than anything the Niners or Seahawks did in free agency.

Don't focus on one part of the offseason. Focus on the entire offseason. You'll feel better about the Cardinals. It's still a tough road to hoe, but it ain't impossible.

Not to mention, that we'll be adding a number of virtual rookies from last year to our lineup.

 

[oaken1]

as deep as this draft apparently was...and with all of those picks....IMO the waiver wire is going to be a pretty hot commodity this summer.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Too much focus exclusively on the draft. When you combine free agency and the draft, the Cardinals are doing OK.

You can't ignore the losses by SF and Seattle in free agency, and the Cardinal acquisitions. Even after losing Karlos Dansby, the signings of Jared Veldheer, Ted Ginn Jr., Ted Larson, John Carlson, and Antonio Cromartie were far more impressive than anything the Niners or Seahawks did in free agency.

Don't focus on one part of the offseason. Focus on the entire offseason. You'll feel better about the Cardinals. It's still a tough road to hoe, but it ain't impossible.

Agree. You have to look at the total picture, not just the draft

as deep as this draft apparently was...and with all of those picks....IMO the waiver wire is going to be a pretty hot commodity this summer.

I would imagine we could scoop a player or 2 because of the draft depth.

 

[Harry]

I think this thread starts with a good observation. If Winston is not re-signed the Cards have major concerns at RT, RG, & ILB after free agency. The LT is a huge upgrade and Cooper should help, but trying to mesh 3 new players on the OL is a major task and could hurt early even if it eventually works. Ginn will help, but only marginally. With the division racking up wins, giving away a game or two would likely be costly. Like it or not the Cards lost at STL and that task will be harder next season. The Cards can contend but to mark the playoffs they will need to be ready to play from game 1 and not give games away!

 

[PACardsFan]

I think this thread starts with a good observation. If Winston is not re-signed the Cards have major concerns at RT, RG, & ILB after free agency. The LT is a huge upgrade and Cooper should help, but trying to mesh 3 new players on the OL is a major task and could hurt early even if it eventually works. Ginn will help, but only marginally. With the division racking up wins, giving away a game or two would likely be costly. Like it or not the Cards lost at STL and that task will be harder next season. The Cards can contend but to mark the playoffs they will need to be ready to play from game 1 and not give games away!

I think Cooper will also be a huge upgrade & I don't think BASK would agree with you that we have major concerns at RT, RG & ILB. When you're adding 2 huge upgrades to your OL, that will help negate the fact that we may have a couple of players in new positions. Those players will not be new to the team & these guys should be well versed on the expectations from this coaching staff. If BASK felt we had MAJOR concerns there, I hardly think they would have entirely ignored the positions in the draft.

Adding Brown & Ginn will add a dimension that this team sorely needs. No longer will safeties in the NFC West feel comfortable cheating up on the line of scrimmage. Adding speed will also make Fitz & Floyd far more dangerous underneath. I addition, Niklas will add another element to the Offense. Both as a blocker, safety valve, and even down field.

Yes, we lost to St. Louis last year. That was at a time when our whole team was still transitioning to BA. We outplayed them, but didn't have the confidence to close out a game that we should have won. There's no reason to believe that this team can't start off where it finished last year. If not for some bad calls in Philly & some kicker issues in the finale, this team almost finished the season on a 9-0 tear. Even so, 7-2 down the stretch was impressive.

Why is it a given that Seattle, SF, and STL will rack up wins & we won't? I like the offseason moves they've made & we drafted players that fit the system that BASK is building.

 

[Catfish]

The bottom line to me is that we got better, (and deeper), across the board from what we were. We especially got better in our ability to play situational football, which is what BA loves, (and what gives us the ability to score, and to stop the opponent from scoring). That is what will make the difference for us this year IMO.

Cuts will be hard to make, (especially late ones), this year, and that is a very, very good thing. We are a much more complete team this year, (even on the offensive line), and even if Sowell ends up starting at RT. There is still a possibility of scoring a vet RT like Winston if needed.

 

[conraddobler]

I think this thread starts with a good observation. If Winston is not re-signed the Cards have major concerns at RT, RG, & ILB after free agency. The LT is a huge upgrade and Cooper should help, but trying to mesh 3 new players on the OL is a major task and could hurt early even if it eventually works. Ginn will help, but only marginally. With the division racking up wins, giving away a game or two would likely be costly. Like it or not the Cards lost at STL and that task will be harder next season. The Cards can contend but to mark the playoffs they will need to be ready to play from game 1 and not give games away!

I agree with all of this.

I am curious to see how this plays out but you have to think with their strong finish that you'd see a better start. This division is brutal but our defense is very good minus the ILB whole which isn't a small deal.

You have to hope they know what they are doing there and it's my opinion they feel they can work more magic on the offense with a full season under their belt.

Palmer makes me very nervous as the main dude, he's older, he's way too careless with the football, he can still play but he needs to realize that his defense is so good he needs to stop playing fast and loose with the football or I'm going to break TV's all year long.

 

[GatorAZ]

I predict the Cards, Rams and Niners will finish 8-8 or 9-7 with only Seattle making it. Sucks that other divisions will benefit from the NFC Best beating up on each other.

 

[52brandon]

Too much focus exclusively on the draft. When you combine free agency and the draft, the Cardinals are doing OK.

You can't ignore the losses by SF and Seattle in free agency, and the Cardinal acquisitions. Even after losing Karlos Dansby, the signings of Jared Veldheer, Ted Ginn Jr., Ted Larson, John Carlson, and Antonio Cromartie were far more impressive than anything the Niners or Seahawks did in free agency.

Don't focus on one part of the offseason. Focus on the entire offseason. You'll feel better about the Cardinals. It's still a tough road to hoe, but it ain't impossible.

^^^ this

Veldheer was a HUGE addition in the offseason. Plus the return of Cooper. Somehow, suddenly, the left side of our line looks like it could be great. Which, compared to last season, is going to be such a significant improvement. We put up 10 wins with the worst O-line in the NFL. In the best division in the NFL. And half of our losses were by a fieldgoal. We beat the best D in the league, the best team in the league, handing them their final loss (and only home loss in 2 years) with that awful line. Our rookie RB had the most YPC in the NFL with that line. Now suddenly we have a SOLID left side, and a monster rookie TE from a family of blockers, who is already a good blocker before BA, Goodwin, Christophel, and Heiden get their hands on him. That's 4 coaches that love TEs and have a history of success with them. And although he may be old, we added one of the best CBs in the league. Teams can't just throw the opposite direction of PP anymore. We got a SS that loves to hit and is able to cover TEs so we can stop being the supporting team in TE highlight reels. Then we got a developmental DE who is an incredible athlete a super fast WR who can play ST and another WR who is supposed to strengthen our ST. We addressed our 2 most glaring needs, LT in free agency, and SS in the draft. The only need we didn't take care of is a pass-rusher.

all in all, while I must say, STL and SF had better drafts, I think our acquisitions were better. And while most people will say SEA didn't do anything with their draft. That's how they've drafted every year. But it's worked

 

[Totally_Red]

^^^ this

Veldheer was a HUGE addition in the offseason. Plus the return of Cooper. Somehow, suddenly, the left side of our line looks like it could be great. Which, compared to last season, is going to be such a significant improvement. We put up 10 wins with the worst O-line in the NFL. In the best division in the NFL. And half of our losses were by a fieldgoal. We beat the best D in the league, the best team in the league, handing them their final loss (and only home loss in 2 years) with that awful line. Our rookie RB had the most YPC in the NFL with that line. Now suddenly we have a SOLID left side, and a monster rookie TE from a family of blockers, who is already a good blocker before BA, Goodwin, Christophel, and Heiden get their hands on him. That's 4 coaches that love TEs and have a history of success with them. And although he may be old, we added one of the best CBs in the league. Teams can't just throw the opposite direction of PP anymore. We got a SS that loves to hit and is able to cover TEs so we can stop being the supporting team in TE highlight reels. Then we got a developmental DE who is an incredible athlete a super fast WR who can play ST and another WR who is supposed to strengthen our ST. We addressed our 2 most glaring needs, LT in free agency, and SS in the draft. The only need we didn't take care of is a pass-rusher.

all in all, while I must say, STL and SF had better drafts, I think our acquisitions were better. And while most people will say SEA didn't do anything with their draft. That's how they've drafted every year. But it's worked

As always, a lot depends on staying healthy, but I like the Cardinals list of improvements in all three phases:

Improvements:
Jared Veldheer replaces Bradley Sowell at left tackle,
Jonathan Cooper replaces Daryn Colledge at left guard,
Deone Bucannon replaces Yeremiah Bell at strong safety.
Antonio Cromartie replaces Jarraud Powers at right cornerback.
Ted Ginn Jr. replaces Javier Arenas on kickoff returns
Ted Ginn Jr./John Brown replace Patrick Peterson on punt returns
Troy Niklas replaces Jim Dray as inline tight end

versus

Probable decline:
Kevin Minter replaces Karlos Dansby at inside linebacker.

 

[GuernseyCard]

As always, a lot depends on staying healthy, but I like the Cardinals list of improvements in all three phases:

Improvements:
Jared Veldheer replaces Bradley Sowell at left tackle,
Jonathan Cooper replaces Daryn Colledge at left guard,
Deone Bucannon replaces Yeremiah Bell at strong safety.
Antonio Cromartie replaces Jarraud Powers at right cornerback.
Ted Ginn Jr. replaces Javier Arenas on kickoff returns
Ted Ginn Jr./John Brown replace Patrick Peterson on punt returns
Troy Niklas replaces Jim Dray as inline tight end

versus

Probable decline:
Kevin Minter replaces Karlos Dansby at inside linebacker.

And Ginn / Brown replace Andre Roberts

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

lots of good points here, on both sides.

niners and rams undeniably had better drafts than us.

niners were a skosh better than us last year.

rams were a bit behind us last year.

we had the best free agency period.

free agents typically have bigger impact (if they're good and a good fit) than rookies, so doing better in free agency than in the draft should have a bigger impact.

we are getting a bunch of players who virtually didn't play for us last year back (like cooper and okafor). if you add those players to our current draft, maybe our draft is as good, or better than niners and rams.

we will likely be without washington to start year and mathieu may not be at 100% and we will be working in new players at a bunch of positions. so we might lose some early games we cannot afford to lose.

i think the steps back seattle will take and the gains made by the niners and rams and us places the entire division in flux. i think it still goes as follows, but only by the tiniest of differences now:

seahawks
niners/cards
rams

 

[football karma]

I think the single biggest upgrade isnt from personnel adds --

its a full year under live conditions running the offense. Palmer, Fitz, Floyd, Ellington all will be on the same page and comfortable.

this was a huge disadvantage relative to other teams in the West last year, especially in the first half of the season.

add to this that the offense doesnt have to be limited by always preparing help for the left tackle will only make it better

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

oh, and there's the trickle down effect too:

PP no longer playing offense and doing returns means greater focus on d

cromartie replacing powers also means powers replacing cason. so that's two upgrades in one.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

Well, based on the schedule I will make a prediction. The Rams will be in 1st place in our division after week 4. I just hope we won't be 0-3 at that point after our tough start against Chargers, @ Giants, Niners, bye, @ Broncos in week 5. I remember not too long ago when most of us would look at that schedule and just hope we somehow could win 1 game out of the first 4.

 

[Bobcat]

I think we helped ourselves in relation to the Super Bowl Champ Seattle, but when I look at the Niners and Rams drafts, both being A+, I can't help thinking we took what could be a big step backward.

Niners:
1 Jimmie Ward
2 Carlos Hyde
3 Marcus Martin
3 Chris Borland
3 Brandon Thomas
4 Bruce Ellington
4 Dontae Johnson
5 Aaron Lynch

Rams:
1 G. Robinson
1 A. Donald
2 L. Joyner
3 T. Mason
4 M. Alexander
6 E. Gaines
6 G. Gilbert
7 M. Van Dyk
7 C. Bryant
7 M. Sam
7 D. Rhaney

Not really I trust in our coaches and GM. This is the first time that I can really say this. Have been a season ticket holder for the last 16 years. Other than Dansby the player here like it here.

 

[daves]

I think the single biggest upgrade isnt from personnel adds --

its a full year under live conditions running the offense. Palmer, Fitz, Floyd, Ellington all will be on the same page and comfortable.

this was a huge disadvantage relative to other teams in the West last year, especially in the first half of the season.

add to this that the offense doesnt have to be limited by always preparing help for the left tackle will only make it better

Good points. In looking at last year's results and stats, the optimist in me noticed that at the end of the year, the Cardinals had the #12 ranked offense and #6-ranked defense (by yards).

But breaking that down into the first 8 games (4-4) vs. the last 8 games (6-2), i found that the Cards' O would've been ranked #26 in the first half of the season (314 ypg), but #9 in the second half (378 ypg). And the D would've been ranked #14 in the first half of the season (342 ypg), but #2 in the second half (292 ypg).

Of course there's no guarantee they'll pick up where they left off, but IF the introduction of entirely new coaching staffs and systems on O and D, along with extreme roster turnover, was a valid excuse for under-performing in the first half of the season, then the second half stats (neglecting plenty of other factors) are more reflective of the team's performance level coming into this season, and we could expect the Cardinals to build on a baseline of the #9 O and #2 D in the league.

You'll notice i sprinkled loads of caveats into that breakdown, but it's fun to think about it this way and imagine where they can go from here!

...dave

 

[SeattleCard]

We picked up the dude on the left.

You must be registered for see images

 

[52brandon]

We picked up the dude on the left.

You must be registered for see images

fixed

 

[Jim Otis]

I believe the other three teams should be more concerned that the Card's have Bruce Arians and staff , than the Card's should be concerned about the draft the other three had .

 

[THESMEL]

Well we are the different bird in the division. We are the passers. Yes we have a tough defense and we are going to need it, The Niners, and Rams upgraded their run games and the Seahawks has Lynch. We can't lose a game and expect to go to the playoffs. It took 12 wins for the Niners last year.

We have to outperform teams in the pass game, we are 1 dimensional. Mendenhall had a much bigger effect on our wins than anybody will give him credit for. Mendy's tough yard productin can be replaced, but has he? Cooper, Veldheer and the new TE's should give us a chance to compete, but that is on paper at this point.

I think we have the best QB, and WR's in the division. But not enough rushing to give them the time they need to become consistent, So I see 2 passes to every run, above average turnovers and a wore down defense. But some great stats!

Regardless what the others are doing, I think we had a good free agency and a terrible draft. We just left a lot of talent on the board every pick, and continued kissing frogs to see if they turn into a prince- another freakin fairy tale. they do come true? Look at Kurt Warner and maybe Josh Mccown! But DA, Leinart, Skelton who was that back up from Pittsburg? the little guy that got crunched? Hell I'm getting to old to remember the last 5 years.

Link
http://espn.go.com/blog/arizona-cardinals

TEMPE, Ariz. -- Arizona rookie quarterback Logan Thomas rejects the "project" label and says he's a lot closer to being ready to play in the NFL than people think.

Thomas, the Cardinals' fourth-round draft pick out of Virginia Tech, made the comments while meeting with reporters at Cardinals headquarters on Friday.

"I think I'm a lot more ready than people think," he said. "I think people labeled me as a project simply off stats, which I can understand what they see, what they think."