The Emperor wants International Goaltending

[slinslin]

In an interview with 790 The Ticket in Miami, NBA commissioner David Stern indicated the league is considering adopting the international goaltending rule.

“Well I’m going to urge the owners — and it’s not very radical but we were talking about it for awhile — to adopt the international rule on basket interference,” Stern said.

“That is to say, once the ball hits the rim it’s in play. Because I think that it’s too hard to call. I think that we don’t want to stop the game every time to see if it’s the right call, but the camera that looks down on the basket can tell the story if the refs have gotten it right. And it’s just impossible to call to make whether the ball’s touching the rim, on the rim, off the rim or the like. And I think that would make the game faster, better, and less controversial. And I think we’re going to be putting in more — I forget the exact number — just more replay opportunities because we really want to get it right. So those are the biggest things.

“I also think we’re going to be talking about cutting out a timeout or two to move the game along. The last period, even in a close game, shouldn’t begin to approach an hour.”

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wireta..._International_Goaltending_Rule#ixzz1KprTmAYW

This might have some implications on how you build a team.

This might make it easier for some players who don't have great timing to get the ball just outside of the cylinder and also allow more chances for big guys to get the offensive rebound and putback.

Certainly would increase the value of a strong frontcourt I would think.

 

[HooverDam]

If we're going to adopt Euro rules I'd rather have the trapezoidal key which puts an emphasis on skilled big men. But FIBA is getting rid of that and going to the NBA style key, so I suppose it'll go the way of the buffalo.

 

[Mainstreet]

I despise the idea of international goaltending for the NBA. I feel it would take a lot from the game. Players could just slap the ball off the rim even if the ball is likely going into the basket. Basketball still needs to keep some finesse in the game.

 

[slinslin]

I think it is a good change tbh. Goaltending is such a subjective call most of the time and leads to so many bad calls...

It's also not like the international goaltending rules comes into effect that often based on European play or international play..

 

[Mulli]

I could be wrong, but in my opinion, the goaltending calls are not that hard to make. It is just that NBA refs are kinda dopey.

The rule they need to clear up are the charges/offensive fouls they call/ don't call.

 

[SactownSunsFan]

I despise the idea of international goaltending for the NBA. I feel it would take a lot from the game. Players could just slap the ball off the rim even if the ball is likely going into the basket. Basketball still needs to keep some finesse in the game.

Agree 100%

 

[boisesuns]

As long as they don't introduce International Flopping ...

 

[Errntknght]

I don't think International goal tending differs from NBA until the ball hits the rim, which means that most of judgement calls remain plus at times the judgment call of whether the ball touched the rim or not.

I ought to make sure that I have the basic rules right.
1) The ball cannot be touched on its downward flight - if there is any chance that it will go in or is it that if there is any chance it will hit the rim?
2) The ball cannot be touched if it is in the cylinder meaning a) any part of it is in the cylinder b) most of the ball is in the cylinder or c) the entire ball is in the cylinder?
3) The ball cannot be touched after it has hit the backboard and is on its upward flight?
4) A player may not touch the net when the ball is in the cylinder with the same questions as 2) about what being the cylinder means. Another little question arises w. Int. rule - is it okay to touch the net after that ball has hit the rim and is thus live.
5) I seem recall a further rule that a player may not put any part of his anatomy in the cylinder unless its already in contact with the ball before it enters the cylinder. (Some rule must make it okay to put one's hand in the cylinder on a dunk and stating it like this makes if not goal tending if the defenders hand is on the ball when the force of the shot pushes it into the cylinder.) Presumeably this changes with Int. rules so that one can reach in the cylinder after the ball has hit the rim.

 

[Suns_fan69]

I could be wrong, but in my opinion, the goaltending calls are not that hard to make. It is just that NBA refs are kinda dopey.

The rule they need to clear up are the charges/offensive fouls they call/ don't call.

I agree. The charge/block calls routinely mystify me. The problem is that it's a judgement call rule and that certain players get the benefit of the doubt. That goes on both ends... Nash, for example, slides in late a lot but still gets the call.

I'm not sure how to make that situation more objective but as it is it's really confusing.

 

[Irish]

I agree. The charge/block calls routinely mystify me. The problem is that it's a judgement call rule and that certain players get the benefit of the doubt. That goes on both ends... Nash, for example, slides in late a lot but still gets the call.

I'm not sure how to make that situation more objective but as it is it's really confusing.

I agree. I'm very confused by the way sometimes charges are called that look like undercutting (getting in front of guys who are in the air.)

I'm undecided about the goal tending rule. I'm not sure what they think they are doing now, but I agree with Stern that it is wildly inconsistent.

BTW, I'm conviced that the Suns amoung other teams put too much spin on their shots. A little spin is good to avoid the knickleball effect, but too much spin seems to pull the ball out of the basket.

 

[Mainstreet]

A significant problem I have with NBA officiating is calling a foul on the defensive player when the offensive player initiates the contact. I can understand the charging and blocking calls include some judgment calls by the referees. I can live with it.

However, I am always perplexed when the offensive player puts up a shot by going underneath the arms of a defender and they call the foul on the defender when he is not coming down on the offensive player's arms. It's been this way since I can remember but I don't think the offensive player should benefit by creating a foul. IMO, there is a difference from a defender coming down on the offensive player's arm and the offensive player coming up underneath the defender's arms.

 

[Superbone]

A significant problem I have with NBA officiating is calling a foul on the defensive player when the offensive player initiates the contact. I can understand the charging and blocking calls include some judgment calls by the referees. I can live with it.

However, I am always perplexed when the offensive player puts up a shot by going underneath the arms of a defender and they call the foul on the defender when he is not coming down on the offensive player's arms. It's been this way since I can remember but I don't think the offensive player should benefit by creating a foul. IMO, there is a difference from a defender coming down on the offensive player's arm and the offensive player coming up underneath the defender's arms.

The best example of this happened today in the Thunder/Grizz game. The offensive player jumped into the back(!) of Durant (who was on the floor with distance from the shooter) and got the call.

 

[Mainstreet]

The best example of this happened today in the Thunder/Grizz game. The offensive player jumped into the back(!) of Durant (who was on the floor with distance from the shooter) and got the call.

I didn't watch the game but it sounds just like the type of call I question.

 

[AzStevenCal]

A significant problem I have with NBA officiating is calling a foul on the defensive player when the offensive player initiates the contact. I can understand the charging and blocking calls include some judgment calls by the referees. I can live with it.

However, I am always perplexed when the offensive player puts up a shot by going underneath the arms of a defender and they call the foul on the defender when he is not coming down on the offensive player's arms. It's been this way since I can remember but I don't think the offensive player should benefit by creating a foul. IMO, there is a difference from a defender coming down on the offensive player's arm and the offensive player coming up underneath the defender's arms.

Honestly, I don't remember that kind of foul being called from my youth. It seems to me that call came into being during the Michael Jordan era but perhaps I'm misremembering. It's possible too that I just didn't see those plays as clearly because I "watched" most of my basketball on the radio.

There's another similar call I hate to see made that I also think came along around the same time. I hate it when the offensive player fakes the defender off his feet and then he steps up under him to draw the shooting foul even though the player would have come down clean. I certainly don't remember Westy and Walter getting away with that back in the 70's or Oscar Robertson and Jerry West in the 60's. But again, most of our NBA came to us via the wireless.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

Honestly, I don't remember that kind of foul being called from my youth. It seems to me that call came into being during the Michael Jordan era but perhaps I'm misremembering. It's possible too that I just didn't see those plays as clearly because I "watched" most of my basketball on the radio.

You might be right. I can't remember it before the Michael Jordan era.

There's another similar call I hate to see made that I also think came along around the same time. I hate it when the offensive player fakes the defender off his feet and then he steps up under him to draw the shooting foul even though the player would have come down clean. I certainly don't remember Westy and Walter getting away with that back in the 70's or Oscar Robertson and Jerry West in the 60's. But again, most of our NBA came to us via the wireless.

A good example of the offensive player creating a foul.

 

[BC867]

There's another similar call I hate to see made that I also think came along around the same time. I hate it when the offensive player fakes the defender off his feet and then he steps up under him to draw the shooting foul even though the player would have come down clean. I certainly don't remember Westy and Walter getting away with that back in the 70's or Oscar Robertson and Jerry West in the 60's.

Actually, Walt Frazier was the master of that during the years of the two Knicks championships of '69 and '73.

The 3-point shot of the ABA had not been adopted yet, but Clyde would shoot a long jumper following a pump fake and, as his man hit him coming down, go up straight and sink the J-and-one.

It was pretty unique at the time, but fun to watch. As were Dr. J's antics in the air and his bank shot from the corner.

 

[Errntknght]

Steve,

There's another similar call I hate to see made that I also think came along around the same time. I hate it when the offensive player fakes the defender off his feet and then he steps up under him to draw the shooting foul even though the player would have come down clean. I certainly don't remember Westy and Walter getting away with that back in the 70's or Oscar Robertson and Jerry West in the 60's. But again, most of our NBA came to us via the wireless.

I don't remember Walter leaning under guys after he got them in the air but it was one of Westphal's favorite moves. IIRC it was pretty common at the time. I also recall announcers saying that stepping under an airborne defender could be an offensive foul as long as the step was not part of the shooting motion - and the defenders flight would not carry him into the shooter without the movement. It was called at times, but very rarely.

Then there was the leg kickout by the shooter - first practiced by Reggie Miller, I believe. James Jones was quite adept at it.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Steve,

I don't remember Walter leaning under guys after he got them in the air but it was one of Westphal's favorite moves. IIRC it was pretty common at the time. I also recall announcers saying that stepping under an airborne defender could be an offensive foul as long as the step was not part of the shooting motion - and the defenders flight would not carry him into the shooter without the movement. It was called at times, but very rarely.

Then there was the leg kickout by the shooter - first practiced by Reggie Miller, I believe. James Jones was quite adept at it.

That's the way I remember it. Other than radio, we got to watch one game a week on a cheap, black & white, 15 inch screen and that doesn't help much in the clarity department. Even after most of us moved up to color we were still dealing with very small screens and if you lived in Phoenix, very few televised games at least until the KPHO simulcasts.

Steve