The Fake

[Russ Smith]

It was 26-26. It had been 14-26.

Our first 2 drives of the the 2nd half finished in a punt and an INT. Eagles just got all square and had ALL the momentum. We are just about to go 3 and out to make it worse with our offense playing poorly.

It reeked of desperation.

I would say it reeks of scouting and film prep. If you watched the whole play pre snap 2 guys on the left side were pointing at something. as soon as that happened I said "fake punt." I assume they had a "tell" they'd seen something on tape that told them that play might work if they got the right look. They got it, and those 2 guys on the left were probably part of that in that when they realized what was coming they were making damn sure they were not lined up incorrectly and didn't blow the play. Or they may have been a decoy act like they're discussing something to divert attention.

But that call was there for a reason they knew something going into that game that told them it would work, and it did.

 

[BritCard]

Come on man. Why can't you just admit when he actually does something good? It isn't that hard and it won't change your opinion of him anyway.

What opinion of him?

I've said a number of times I don't want him fired. I like Kliff, I think he's incredibly hard working and I can see that one day he could be a good HC.

He just isn't good right now. He's ok, just not good.

That doesn't mean there aren't some big scheme issues that have been well discussed here, and that doesn't mean it wasn't a desperation move to go fake punt on your own 30.

I can like him, and see the reality of that call.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

What opinion of him?

I've said a number of times I don't want him fired. I like Kliff, I think he's incredibly hard working and I can see that one day he could be a good HC.

He just isn't good right now. He's ok, just not good.

That doesn't mean there aren't some big scheme issues that have been well discussed here, and that doesn't mean it wasn't a desperation move to go fake punt on your own 30.

I can like him, and see the reality of that call.

There was still plenty of time left in the game and we had just stopped the Eagles on defense too. It wasn't as desperate as you claim.

According to people on this board, he doesn't make plays during crunch time; when he does, he is either lucky or it reeks of desperation to suit their narrative.

 

[WisconsinCard]

There was still plenty of time left in the game and we had just stopped the Eagles on defense too. It wasn't as desperate as you claim.

According to people on this board, he doesn't make plays during crunch time; when he does, he is either lucky or it reeks of desperation to suit their narrative.

Wasn't their punter/holder already injured at that point, I can't remember. If so it wasn't a move if desperation. I mean it would be tough for them to kick a FG. So the defense just would have keep them out of the end zone.

 

[Beaver]

Wonder what the odds were for success on that play?

 

[PJ1]

It was a good call, I'm not denying that. But it wasn't made because he's brave, or because he's an offensive genius or any kind of other positive trait.

It was made because the Eagles came back from 12 points behind to tie up and we were about to go 3 and out and give them the ball back.

No coach calls fake punt on their own 3 if they aren't desperate.

He desperately didn't want our D back on the field. I didn't either.

 

[HairZach]

I think Sherfield or Byrde caught that pass against the Bucs last year? That was a much tougher throw than today.

It was Pharoh Cooper who caught that.

 

[HairZach]

It was 26-26. It had been 14-26.

Our first 2 drives of the the 2nd half finished in a punt and an INT. Eagles just got all square and had ALL the momentum. We are just about to go 3 and out to make it worse with our offense playing poorly.

It reeked of desperation.

You're right about the momentum. Kliff has talked in his press conferences about being very aware of momentum and how momentum influences his decisions to go for it on 4th. I think the call was brave. In my mind it was the right call that every coach should have made in that situation, but most coaches wouldn't have. That is because there is a huge potential for backlash against a coach if a 4th down attempt on your side on the field doesn't work. So yes, I think Kliff ignoring the potential for said backlash and going for it is brave.

The negative connotations of "desperate" just feel wrong when talking about a successful trick play. I think of desperate plays as being extremely low chance of conversion, like prayers to the end zone. This play looked like we had done some scouting on the Eagles tendencies and were confident in our ability to convert. I don't think of well practiced trick plays as desperate. That 4th and long vs. the Rams was desperate.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

You're right about the momentum. Kliff has talked in his press conferences about being very aware of momentum and how momentum influences his decisions to go for it on 4th. I think the call was brave. In my mind it was the right call that every coach should have made in that situation, but most coaches wouldn't have. That is because there is a huge potential for backlash against a coach if a 4th down attempt on your side on the field doesn't work. So yes, I think Kliff ignoring the potential for said backlash and going for it is brave.

The negative connotations of "desperate" just feel wrong when talking about a successful trick play. I think of desperate plays as being extremely low chance of conversion, like prayers to the end zone. This play looked like we had done some scouting on the Eagles tendencies and were confident in our ability to convert. I don't think of well practiced trick plays as desperate. That 4th and long vs. the Rams was desperate.

This very much.

 

[Russ Smith]

Speaking of Fakes the Lions fired their ST coordinator today. Apparently the fake punt they tried yesterday, that didn't work, wasn't approved by the coaching staff, he went "rogue" and called it. in fact not even all the players on the field knew the play was coming.

They snapped to the upback who ran right but was stopped short, down 14 they were quickly down 21.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

It is hard to discuss anything any longer knowing that 40% of Americans (including Congress) think Trump was cheated out of the election he won. How do you ever know that any sports fan, Cardinal or whatever, is arguing with a full deck? It sort of makes expressing an opinion a total waste of time and energy. Sort of like this post.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

It was Pharoh Cooper who caught that.

I'm getting old, memory isn't as sharp at times lol. It was a tougher catch & harder throw, I do remember that.

 

[BritCard]

There was still plenty of time left in the game and we had just stopped the Eagles on defense too. It wasn't as desperate as you claim.

According to people on this board, he doesn't make plays during crunch time; when he does, he is either lucky or it reeks of desperation to suit their narrative.

Well thats true. We even saw it in this game.

We had the ball back with 1:50 left in the game and he wouldn't throw the ball. We ran it for 5, no gain, 4 and punted. Took 22 seconds off the clock because the Eagles ate up 2 timeouts and we gave them 1:28 to drive down the field and tie/win.

When you get the ball back with 1:50 on the clock you should be seeing the game out. Not telegraph run, telegraph run, telegraph run.

These are the true clutch situations he turtles up in. It's often not where we are behind and have to come back to win, there he has no choice. It's often if we have a slim lead, or down by 3 where he is ultra conservative.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Well thats true. We even saw it in this game.

We had the ball back with 1:50 left in the game and he wouldn't throw the ball. We ran it for 5, no gain, 4 and punted. Took 22 seconds off the clock because the Eagles ate up 2 timeouts and we gave them 1:28 to drive down the field and tie/win.

When you get the ball back with 1:50 on the clock you should be seeing the game out. Not telegraph run, telegraph run, telegraph run.

These are the true clutch situations he turtles up in. It's often not where we are behind and have to come back to win, there he has no choice. It's often if we have a slim lead, or down by 3 where he is ultra conservative.

Disagree. I'd say 7 or 8 out of 10 coaches or more do the exact same thing. Watch other teams late in the fourth quarter with leads, and you see the same thing. Don't like like this is a KK issue. Forcing them to use their timeouts is important and can't be understated. Can you imagine how the board would blow up of he tried to do a playaction on 2nd or 3rd and it was incomplete, stopping the clock. He'd get yelled at that too, but it would be even worse and give the other team a much better chance at winning.

You should be able to run the ball 3 times to ice the game, especially when you have a mobile QB like Kyler.

 

[ajcardfan]

Disagree. I'd say 7 or 8 out of 10 coaches or more do the exact same thing. Watch other teams late in the fourth quarter with leads, and you see the same thing. Don't like like this is a KK issue. Forcing them to use their timeouts is important and can't be understated. Can you imagine how the board would blow up of he tried to do a playaction on 2nd or 3rd and it was incomplete, stopping the clock. He'd get yelled at that too, but it would be even worse and give the other team a much better chance at winning.

You should be able to run the ball 3 times to ice the game, especially when you have a mobile QB like Kyler.

This should be a no brainer. There were three ways to win the game with the 3rd down run. One, get the first down. Two, have the Eagles run out of time because they don't have a timeout. Three, defense gets a stop or turnover on their side of the field.

Throw an incomplete pass? You take one option away by leaving them a time out.

 

[TheCardFan]

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[Harry]

We may be quibbling over “desperate.” I thought the call was okay, but the execution was sloppy. It worked but Russ is right the Cards tipped the play. They got lucky. I do think KK’s thought process was he trusted that play more than the defense.

 

[cardncubfan]

I'm 69, I had to look it up.

What page is it on? I'm still trying to find it.

 

[WisconsinCard]

What page is it on? I'm still trying to find it.

FAX as in facts. I googled it too.

 

[Cardiac]

What opinion of him?

I've said a number of times I don't want him fired. I like Kliff, I think he's incredibly hard working and I can see that one day he could be a good HC.

He just isn't good right now. He's ok, just not good.

That doesn't mean there aren't some big scheme issues that have been well discussed here, and that doesn't mean it wasn't a desperation move to go fake punt on your own 30.

I can like him, and see the reality of that call.

"They gave us a look that we had been practicing against all week," Turner said. "It hadn't shown up all game, but we finally got it at the perfect time."

Ezekiel Turner Proves Special In Close Win Over Eagles (azcardinals.com)

So maybe just maybe it was desperation but great scouting and planning.

 

[Cardiac]

I would say it reeks of scouting and film prep. If you watched the whole play pre snap 2 guys on the left side were pointing at something. as soon as that happened I said "fake punt." I assume they had a "tell" they'd seen something on tape that told them that play might work if they got the right look. They got it, and those 2 guys on the left were probably part of that in that when they realized what was coming they were making damn sure they were not lined up incorrectly and didn't blow the play. Or they may have been a decoy act like they're discussing something to divert attention.

But that call was there for a reason they knew something going into that game that told them it would work, and it did.

To your point Russ:

Ezekiel Turner Proves Special In Close Win Over Eagles (azcardinals.com)

"They gave us a look that we had been practicing against all week," Turner said. "It hadn't shown up all game, but we finally got it at the perfect time."

 

[Jetstream Green]

That was a confident "we got you right were we want you" and also "we don't respect you and can afford to gamble with this much time on the clock" call and the Cards rolled the dice. The best thing about this call is that it goes on tape and other teams now have to think hard when playing Kliff... he's not predictable, and has cajones masivas

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Kliff has some damn grapefruits....bash him all you want....freaking grapefruits

They saw that look on film Philly showed on the play. Practiced the fake during the week. Jeff Rodgers was told by KK he had the go ahead to call the play as soon as he saw that look on a return. The deal was he could only call it with that look if we were outside the 10 yard line. So if we're at the 11 or 12 yard line what's the difference really lol? Yeah, KK has some grapefruits as you said.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

This should be a no brainer. There were three ways to win the game with the 3rd down run. One, get the first down. Two, have the Eagles run out of time because they don't have a timeout. Three, defense gets a stop or turnover on their side of the field.

Throw an incomplete pass? You take one option away by leaving them a time out.

Exactly. Happened again last night.

 

[BritCard]

Disagree. I'd say 7 or 8 out of 10 coaches or more do the exact same thing. Watch other teams late in the fourth quarter with leads, and you see the same thing. Don't like like this is a KK issue. Forcing them to use their timeouts is important and can't be understated. Can you imagine how the board would blow up of he tried to do a playaction on 2nd or 3rd and it was incomplete, stopping the clock. He'd get yelled at that too, but it would be even worse and give the other team a much better chance at winning.

You should be able to run the ball 3 times to ice the game, especially when you have a mobile QB like Kyler.

Literally watched several games the last 2 weeks where coaches haven't done that