The fallout of Toronto

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

To me, the lowest of the low is if he has another year like last year. That Elfrid gets you a 2nd round pick territory.

I don't see him getting any better.

But there’s a slim chance he might and he’s cheap.

 

[Hoop Head]

To me, the lowest of the low is if he has another year like last year. That Elfrid gets you a 2nd round pick territory.

I don't see him getting any better.

I agree with this. Chriss only finished his 2nd year and he's still just 20 years old. Another team would have him under contract for 2 full seasons before he could become a restricted free agent. I don't think we could get a lottery pick for him, but I think we could get a late 1st round pick from a playoff team for him. Those teams don't have much young talent and if they do, their young talent doesn't have Chriss' upside. He wouldn't need to produce for them right away and they would have enough time to work with him to see if he's salvageable. If you don't think teams like Houston, OKC, Golden State, Toronto, Boston, Philly, New Orleans, or Cleveland would rather have him than whoever they can grab at the end of the 1st then you're selling way too low on Chriss.

I think Suns fans have a skewed view on his value because we got to see him stink for the majority of the season. He probably has the most trade value of any Suns player that isn't Booker, Jackson, or Warren but that speaks more to how much talent this team lacks than it has. That puts him ahead of Knight, Dudley, Chandler, Bender, and Troy Daniels.

 

[Errntknght]

The way the Cavs ran roughshod over the Raptors probably hurts out chances of getting either VanVleet or Delon Wright - they'd probably be more inclined to dump Lowry, especially with him bombing out in a must win game. He didn't cost them the series but the PG gets extra credit, win or lose.

Oh, I'm negative on Ibaka, who wan not a postive factor in the Cavs series, among other things.

 

[Chaplin]

The way the Cavs ran roughshod over the Raptors probably hurts out chances of getting either VanVleet or Delon Wright - they'd probably be more inclined to dump Lowry, especially with him bombing out in a must win game. He didn't cost them the series but the PG gets extra credit, win or lose.

Oh, I'm negative on Ibaka, who wan not a postive factor in the Cavs series, among other things.

Lowry's got a terrible contract--it's going to be tough for Toronto to move him, if they want to.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Not a fan of Ibaka, however this is the framework of move that makes some sense (albeit not this one directly). I have never been high on Chriss, but im not sure giving up on him for Ibaka does much.

Ibaka doesnt protect the rim anywhere like he used to, doesnt hit the defensive glass anymore, doesnt hit the offensive glass anymore, doesnt generate turnovers, and basically has transformed himself into a stretch big who doesnt shoot it all that well.

Context?

Ibaka has been in the 75th+ percentile among all bigs in 3PA each of the last four years, yet his eFG% has not risen above the 65th percentile. Not to mention, hes one of the league leaders (among bigs) in long mid-range jumpers attempted, basically his entire career. Add that with not having been in the 50th+ percentile on the offensive or defensive glass among bigs in that same time frame and...

No thanks.

 

[Mainstreet]

I would have more interest in Jonas Valanciunas. He fills a need and costs less money.

So how about working a trade for him involving Chandler.

https://hoopshype.com/player/jonas-valanciunas/salary/

Valanciunas has a player option after next season.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I would have more interest in Jonas Valanciunas. He fills a need and costs less money.

So how about working a trade for him involving Chandler.

https://hoopshype.com/player/jonas-valanciunas/salary/

Valanciunas has a player option after next season.

I think we’d have to make a pretty good offer to get him at this point. He’s their best value get on the roster right now, IMO.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think we’d have to make a pretty good offer to get him at this point. He’s their best value get on the roster right now, IMO.

I'm not sure what to add with Chandler. The problem is Valanciunas could walk after next season. Also the Suns would be taking about $3 million back although it is not huge.

I'd start with Chandler and a first round draft pick and see what they say.

I want to hear want Kokoskov thinks about Chriss or Bender.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm not sure what to add with Chandler. The problem is Valanciunas could walk after next season. Also the Suns would be taking about $3 million back although it is not huge.

I'd start with Chandler and a first round draft pick and see what they say.

I want to hear want Kokoskov thinks about Chriss or Bender.

Don’t think that would be near enough.

 

[Mainstreet]

Don’t think that would be near enough.

Maybe not. It's something to start talks if the Suns were interested.

 

[elindholm]

I think we’d have to make a pretty good offer to get him at this point. He’s their best value get on the roster right now, IMO.

I view Valanciunas similarly to Ibaka, in that I keep expecting him to up his game and make more of an impact, and it keeps not happening. (Their ages aren't even that different, Valanciunas's 26 to Ibaka's 28.) Evidently his coaching staff has felt the same way, since his minutes have steadily declined(!) from his sophomore season:

2013-14 28.2 mpg
2014-15 26.2
2015-16 26.0
2016-17 25.8
2017-18 22.4

I haven't paid enough attention to know why Valanciunas has such a hard time staying on the floor -- his foul rate isn't high enough to explain it -- but it's a striking trend.

I also have doubts about how useful an offensive weapon is. He has periods of looking unstoppable down low, but he's awfully erratic. He had a ton of chances to convert late in Game 1 against Cleveland, and gacked on all of them, finishing 7-19 when he was rarely more than a foot from the rim. Those late failures completely set the tone for the series, and might end up hanging over him the same way that Nick Anderson's missed free throws did in 1995.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

I haven't paid enough attention to know why Valanciunas has such a hard time staying on the floor -- his foul rate isn't high enough to explain it -- but it's a striking trend.

He isnt great as a defender, and has been up and down as a rim protector. He can score in the paint, but needs touches, and those touches arent as efficient as the ones with Lowry or DeRozan.

It is really hard to keep big guys who cant make plays out of the short roll, arent great passers, cant stretch the floor, or cant protect the rim. To stay on the floor late, bigs need to be able to do at least two of those.

Again, its why teams have turned to platooning Cs, and why more and more bigs are on the bench in crunch time, as teams go smaller.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Toronto is discussing firing their coach. This is definitely a carbon copy of what the Suns went through when they couldn't get past San Antonio

 

[sunsfan88]

Toronto is discussing firing their coach. This is definitely a carbon copy of what the Suns went through when they couldn't get past San Antonio

Casey is being the scapegoat for DeRozan & Lowry being two of the most overrated fake “star” players in the NBA.

 

[Mainstreet]

Toronto is discussing firing their coach. This is definitely a carbon copy of what the Suns went through when they couldn't get past San Antonio

Yes. It is easier to blame the coach for not getting to the next level.

 

[Hoop Head]

It'll be interesting to see if Toronto blows it up or if they retool. Keeping Casey for another year is probably their best bet. I'm not sure who they would replace him with right now that would be that much better. Firing him might cause some of their players to ask out also, because it's not Casey's fault. Another coach could probably help them get a game or two against Lebron but they couldn't beat him with their roster.

Toronto has a good backcourt on paper but it's fairly obvious they weren't going to win much in the postseason. Lowry disappears in the playoffs more than any current NBA player I can think of and he's supposed to be a "star". DeRozen can't shoot from outside, only hitting 31% of his 3's while attempt 3 a game. He's like TJ Warren only as the 1st option for them. They need to pair him with a good 3 & D wing but they've failed to do that over the last few years. They can be beat by forcing DeRozen to take 3's and forcing Lowry to score. Ibaka and Jonas are a good frontcourt but not the frontcourt of a contender. They have no frontcourt depth and a huge hole at SF.

 

[Ronin]

Toronto has fired coach Dwane Casey, league source tells ESPN.

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[Ronin]

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[Ronin]

Coaches of the Year: Avery Johnson (05-06), gone ‘08 Sam Mitchell (06-07), gone ‘08 Byron Scott (07-08), gone ‘09 Mike Brown (08-09), gone ‘10 George Karl (12-13), gone ‘13 NBA’s Madden Curse

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[Ronin]

Mike Budenholzer Emerges As Candidate For Raptors' Job

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[Krangodnzr]

Mike Budenholzer Emerges As Candidate For Raptors' Job

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I wouldn't doubt that the reason the Suns couldn't bring in Budenholzer is because he wanted more say in player acquisition.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

It's like these rumors are legit. Crazy talk.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Wow. Coach of the Year and fired within what, a 24 hour span? Not a good look Toronto. Besides. Its about the players in this case, not the coach.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Wow. Coach of the Year and fired within what, a 24 hour span? Not a good look Toronto. Besides. Its about the players in this case, not the coach.

totally disagree. That's a pretty talented team who seems to NEVER make an adjustment to LeBron.

That said, Bud coaching that team probably doesn't move the needle all that much more.

 

[JCSunsfan]

totally disagree. That's a pretty talented team who seems to NEVER make an adjustment to LeBron.

That said, Bud coaching that team probably doesn't move the needle all that much more.

I agree with you about Bud. I just don't think they have the personnel to deal with LeBron. Its a matchup thing.