The Free Safety Position

[Mitch]

Aside from QB, the FS position, is probably the most difficult to play in football and particularly in the NFL.

What QBs key on all the time is what the FS is doing. If he is biting up to play the middle, the QB looks to throw over the top (as SF did when they threw the bomb to Isaac Bruce---Matt Ware bit up the middle on that play, thus leaving DMF one-on-one with Bruce---and it is tough for any CB to cover the deep post all alone)...or, if the FS helps deep, the QB looks to throw underneath, as Garrard was doing with TE Mercedes Lewis yesterday...one pass of which Adrian Wilson came up to deliver a blow on).

The problem is...the FS does not have the luxury of time on his hands...he has to make very quick decisions because he needs to sprint hard to where he thinks the ball is going to go. The worst thing is to stand in cement shoes. Those type of FSs get toasted repeatedly.

The great ones, such as Ed Reed, are adept at baiting the QB...giving the appearance of going one way and then, on a dime, sprinting up or back as whatever the case may be.

The best FS I ever saw in a Cardinal uniform was Larry Wilson. He had such an uncanny feel for where the ball was going---and he had such great range that he could get initially fooled and still recover to break up a pass or lay a good lick on the WR or TE.

What the Cardinals are facing at the position now is a lack of experience...Antrel Rolle's forte is in moving up and thus is prone to getting beat deep. It's going to take Rashad Johnson some time to adjust to the quickness of the QB's reads in the NFL and how quickly the ball arrives at its intended target. Matt Ware seems more inside conscious and doesn't seem to have the range or the instincts to get to the deep passes.

This week the Cardinals play against a QB in Peyton Manning who may well be one of the best QBs in NFL history at reading the FS. If the Cardinals don't get to Manning before he can make his reads, the FS---whomever he is---won't have much of a chance in this game. Moreover, the Cardinals' CBs have got to run stride for stride with Reggie Wayne and the other Colts' WRs...but the guy that makes this scenario all the more precarious is TE Dallas Clark, who is a master at commanding the FS's attention, right smack dab in the middle interdediate areas and the seams.

Right now it probably would be wisest if Bill Davis commits the FS to patrolling Clark and the WRs in the middle and rolling the dice that his pass rush will be able to get to Manning before he can make the deep passes over the top to the WRs. This is why we may see some 7-8 yard cushions by the CBs at times. With that we all need to remain patient and understanding...and hope that Calais Campbell and others can deflect some of the short passes.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Don't disagree much with what you've stated here Mitch. The reality is that we MUST find a way to apply pressure on Manning. We simply don't have the cover ability to try to play that type of game. We need to be aggressive and beat-up Manning. If he's sitting back there all night long, it won't matter how many guys we have dropped back in coverage or who we have assigned to Dallas Clark... untouched, Manning will shread us...

 

[Mitch]

What I also need to mention is that if a DC such as Bill Davis wants to take some of the pressure off his FSs...what he does is is give them double team assignments. For example, I imagine on some plays he will have one of his FSs doubling over the top on Reggie Wayne and the other doubling on Dallas Clark or playing centerfield. This would leave the opposite CB one on one with Hank Baskett or Austin Collie. Neither is a burner, per se, which helps. But still, that opposite CB will need to take away the inside slants and mirror the fades and sideline passes.

 

[Russ Smith]

From what you've seen so far do you think Johnson has the size and athleticism to play FS?

My concern is the way we blitz and defend the FS has so much responsibility. That's why when Rolle is on this steep learning curve he can look so bad, like the Jets last year when Favre tortured him. Rolle is improved but still not there in coverage but I'm a little concerned about Johnson. He just doesn't seem to have the flexibility and speed I expected but maybe he's thinking instead of reading and reacting?

 

[Mitch]

From what you've seen so far do you think Johnson has the size and athleticism to play FS?

My concern is the way we blitz and defend the FS has so much responsibility. That's why when Rolle is on this steep learning curve he can look so bad, like the Jets last year when Favre tortured him. Rolle is improved but still not there in coverage but I'm a little concerned about Johnson. He just doesn't seem to have the flexibility and speed I expected but maybe he's thinking instead of reading and reacting?

I think Rashad Johnson has the intelligence, the instincts and the knowledge of pursuit angles to be a good FS. Right now, he's a rookie and is understandably showing it. This is why I was begging the Cardinals to sign another veteran FS, just to play nickel cover 2 FS with Johnson. For some reason the Cardinals think Matt Ware can do it...but the irony of that is he couldn't even beat out Aaron Francisco last year for playing time, and we all saw how much Francisco struggles with it.

It would be fascinating to see what Greg Toler could do back there as a nickel cover 2 FS...he has the size and speed you are talking about, Russ. But, obviously he would have to be coached up. But, why not at this point. He's most likely a far better option than Matt Ware. It's hard to see what the coaches see in him.

 

[Buckybird]

I still never fiqured out why the Cards didn't sign Darren Sharper in free agency to fill in at FS & to help groom Johnson. He has been one of the best to ever play the position.

 

[Mitch]

I still never fiqured out why the Cards didn't sign Darren Sharper in free agency to fill in at FS & to help groom Johnson. He has been one of the best to ever play the position.

I'm with you Bucky...for whatever the reason the Cardinals have not valued the position nearly as much as they have needed to for many, many years now.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I think Rashad Johnson has the intelligence, the instincts and the knowledge of pursuit angles to be a good FS. Right now, he's a rookie and is understandably showing it.

Agreed. Rashad Johnson is going to be good. He is currently thinking and reacting. But he will eventually will just react. Then and only then we will see what we have in Rashad Johnson.

He was a half second late to react, and then trying to make up for it, tripped and fell on the Hughes dropped TD pass.

I think Johnson, for a rookie, is playing VERY well.

 

[red desert]

What I also need to mention is that if a DC such as Bill Davis wants to take some of the pressure off his FSs...what he does is is give them double team assignments. For example, I imagine on some plays he will have one of his FSs doubling over the top on Reggie Wayne and the other doubling on Dallas Clark or playing centerfield. This would leave the opposite CB one on one with Hank Baskett or Austin Collie. Neither is a burner, per se, which helps. But still, that opposite CB will need to take away the inside slants and mirror the fades and sideline passes.

Makes sense. I'll also add that we put DCR on Baskett or Collie when we are doubling Wayne.

 

[Russ Smith]

My 2 concerns with the Colts are FS and LT. Manning absolutely crucifies safeties who bite on fakes, AW and Rolle both do that and Johnson is a rook.

Freeney is one of those guys who can win a game single handedly if you can't block him and the way Kurt moves and puts the ball on the ground when sacked I'm REALLY concerned about our ability to block Freeney.

We should do what everyone tries to do against Freeney, run the ball right at him to wear him down, usually doesn't work though.

 

[187]

From what you've seen so far do you think Johnson has the size and athleticism to play FS?

My concern is the way we blitz and defend the FS has so much responsibility. That's why when Rolle is on this steep learning curve he can look so bad, like the Jets last year when Favre tortured him. Rolle is improved but still not there in coverage but I'm a little concerned about Johnson. He just doesn't seem to have the flexibility and speed I expected but maybe he's thinking instead of reading and reacting?

Rashad is 5' 11" 203. Ed Reed is 5' 11" 200. Rashad ran the 40-yard dash is 4.4s, Reed ran it 4.57 seconds. He has the size and speed, but he has only played TWO GAMES at a notoriously TOUGH position to adjust to in the NFL, as Mitch mentioned. People need to temper their expectations with him (and just about any defensive rookie) a LOT, it took DRC half the season to adjust to playing corner and it takes most secondary players 2+ seasons. Expecting him to come in and immediately play great as a rookie is setting the bar way, way too high.

 

[CardinalChris]

I think Rashad Johnson has the intelligence, the instincts and the knowledge of pursuit angles to be a good FS. Right now, he's a rookie and is understandably showing it. This is why I was begging the Cardinals to sign another veteran FS, just to play nickel cover 2 FS with Johnson. For some reason the Cardinals think Matt Ware can do it...but the irony of that is he couldn't even beat out Aaron Francisco last year for playing time, and we all saw how much Francisco struggles with it.

Rashad Johnson was drafted to allow Rolle to depart via free agency, much like Campbell was drafted to prepare for Antonio Smith's pending free agency. They can learn for a year before they are counted on to contribute (be very careful, good teams draft this way!!!). But to assume Francisco is better than Ware because he played last year is dangerous. Heck, for all we know Clancy could have preferred Francisco (for whatever reason) over Ware, but it have less to do with abilities as much as responsibilities in the defense. It doesn't mean players can't improve or beat another one out when the responsibilities (and defense) change. I trust the staff to make that judgment, and they even specifically stated Ware did some things they wanted better than Francisco, because they have been right more than they have been wrong when making those calls. Ware has even played some corner for us. My guess is they count on Johnson learning and growing in his position more than they do Ware. They are willing to suffer the growing pains to help prepare. This kid can play.

 

[Buckybird]

What I also need to mention is that if a DC such as Bill Davis wants to take some of the pressure off his FSs...what he does is is give them double team assignments. For example, I imagine on some plays he will have one of his FSs doubling over the top on Reggie Wayne and the other doubling on Dallas Clark or playing centerfield. This would leave the opposite CB one on one with Hank Baskett or Austin Collie. Neither is a burner, per se, which helps. But still, that opposite CB will need to take away the inside slants and mirror the fades and sideline passes.

We have to find someway to take Clark out of the game & limit his opportunities. I dont care if we double him the whole game or beat him over the head with a tire iron, TAKE DALLAS CLARK OUT of the game. When he is on the Colts offense rolls. One guy isn't going to stop him.

 

[Duckjake]

Rashad is 5' 11" 203. Ed Reed is 5' 11" 200. Rashad ran the 40-yard dash is 4.4s, Reed ran it 4.57 seconds. He has the size and speed, but he has only played TWO GAMES at a notoriously TOUGH position to adjust to in the NFL, as Mitch mentioned. People need to temper their expectations with him (and just about any defensive rookie) a LOT, it took DRC half the season to adjust to playing corner and it takes most secondary players 2+ seasons. Expecting him to come in and immediately play great as a rookie is setting the bar way, way too high.

Excellent point. Look at Michael Huff of the Raiders. There was talk about him being cut, he lost his starting job, and this year in just 2 games he has 3 INTs, a fumble recovery, and 5 pdfs. Looks like the bar was set too high and the Raiders almost gave up on him too soon.

That is why it is such a great situation to be able to draft defensive players and let them play a year or two behind a veteran instead of having to throw them into the game right away.

 

[Russ Smith]

Rashad is 5' 11" 203. Ed Reed is 5' 11" 200. Rashad ran the 40-yard dash is 4.4s, Reed ran it 4.57 seconds. He has the size and speed, but he has only played TWO GAMES at a notoriously TOUGH position to adjust to in the NFL, as Mitch mentioned. People need to temper their expectations with him (and just about any defensive rookie) a LOT, it took DRC half the season to adjust to playing corner and it takes most secondary players 2+ seasons. Expecting him to come in and immediately play great as a rookie is setting the bar way, way too high.

Note, I'm not writing him off yet but I also don't believe he is 5'11" unless the rest of our secondary is all 2 inches taller than listed, and he doesn't play like he runs a 4.4 40, so far his game speed is lacking. That may be because he's a rookie and thinking instead of playing so his reaction time is slow, but I can only go off what I've seen in the preseason and 2 games.

To be honest it took 2 full preseason games before I even realized Johnson was Rashad Johnson our 2nd rounder, I thought he was an undrafted FA based on his size and game speed. When I realized who he was I figured ok it's way too early to get concerned. It still is, I'm just saying right now he's not nearly as big or fast as I expected him to be.

If he's half as good as Ed Reed he'll be a Pro Bowler for years and I realize even Ed Reed wasn't that good as a rookie.

My main point of concern is like everyone else I think this is likely Rolle's last year as a Cardinal, contract is too big and the Cards will probably let him walk and the plan appears to be start Rashad Johnson.

 

[dogpoo32]

Rashad Johnson was drafted to allow Rolle to depart via free agency, much like Campbell was drafted to prepare for Antonio Smith's pending free agency. They can learn for a year before they are counted on to contribute (be very careful, good teams draft this way!!!). But to assume Francisco is better than Ware because he played last year is dangerous. Heck, for all we know Clancy could have preferred Francisco (for whatever reason) over Ware, but it have less to do with abilities as much as responsibilities in the defense. It doesn't mean players can't improve or beat another one out when the responsibilities (and defense) change. I trust the staff to make that judgment, and they even specifically stated Ware did some things they wanted better than Francisco, because they have been right more than they have been wrong when making those calls. Ware has even played some corner for us. My guess is they count on Johnson learning and growing in his position more than they do Ware. They are willing to suffer the growing pains to help prepare. This kid can play.

We play 3 safety sets a lot, well we have 3 players who are listed as safeties on the field at one time. This allows our playmakers, Rolle and AW to play near the LOS. I think letting Rolle go, as frustrating as he can be, would be a huge mistake. How many defensive/ST TDs would we be missing out on? He may not be a prototypical FS, but he is a playmaker.

 

[Russ Smith]

Excellent point. Look at Michael Huff of the Raiders. There was talk about him being cut, he lost his starting job, and this year in just 2 games he has 3 INTs, a fumble recovery, and 5 pdfs. Looks like the bar was set too high and the Raiders almost gave up on him too soon.

That is why it is such a great situation to be able to draft defensive players and let them play a year or two behind a veteran instead of having to throw them into the game right away.

ACtually I was going to use Huff as an example, the problem is with Huff he has all the measurables, size and speed etc. Nobody questioned his athletic ability he just didn't seem to understand the game when he arrived in Oakland. He's playing much better but again, he's NOT starting, he lost his job to Hiram Eugene, the stats you're seeing are essentially in nickel and dime coverage. He's playing behind a guy who was an undrafted FA from Louisiana Tech the same year Huff was the first round pick. The other safety Tyvon Branch was a 4th rounder last year, his backup Mike Mitchell was a very disputed 2nd round pick this year. So it's not like Huff had a lot of competition which was why his bubble status was so alarming to the Raiders.

He's playing quite well right now but he might not have made the roster had the Raiders been any deeper or more experienced at S.

Note, I'm not saying Johnson is a bust at all, I'm just a little concerned at what so far looks to be less athletic ability than I expected. I completely get the part about how intelligent he is and that is CRUCIAL at FS, it's one of Rolle's biggest problems he doesn't play smart.

I should also add as a Cards fan for ages I'm conditioned to expect 2nd round picks to be disappointments. Campbell changed that last year let's hope Johnson does this year.

 

[bg7brd]

ACtually I was going to use Huff as an example, the problem is with Huff he has all the measurables, size and speed etc. Nobody questioned his athletic ability he just didn't seem to understand the game when he arrived in Oakland. He's playing much better but again, he's NOT starting, he lost his job to Hiram Eugene, the stats you're seeing are essentially in nickel and dime coverage. He's playing behind a guy who was an undrafted FA from Louisiana Tech the same year Huff was the first round pick. The other safety Tyvon Branch was a 4th rounder last year, his backup Mike Mitchell was a very disputed 2nd round pick this year. So it's not like Huff had a lot of competition which was why his bubble status was so alarming to the Raiders.

He's playing quite well right now but he might not have made the roster had the Raiders been any deeper or more experienced at S.

Note, I'm not saying Johnson is a bust at all, I'm just a little concerned at what so far looks to be less athletic ability than I expected. I completely get the part about how intelligent he is and that is CRUCIAL at FS, it's one of Rolle's biggest problems he doesn't play smart.

I should also add as a Cards fan for ages I'm conditioned to expect 2nd round picks to be disappointments. Campbell changed that last year let's hope Johnson does this year.

Actually, Johnson is a third round pick. It looks like the light finally came on for Branch (2nd rd pick) this year and that should act as a reminder of how we need to be patient with some of our draft picks. Everybody matures at a different rate.

 

[Russ Smith]

Actually, Johnson is a third round pick. It looks like the light finally came on for Branch (2nd rd pick) this year and that should act as a reminder of how we need to be patient with some of our draft picks. Everybody matures at a different rate.

Yes got the round wrong too.

The difference between Johnson and Huff is the Raiders could essentially afford to wait on Huff becuase they were so bad. 3 years in a row he arrived in camp and they said welcome Michael, you're the starting FS. The first 2 years he was terrible but they didn't bench him he'd start the game but not finish, last year he got benched, this year he's not starting.

The Cards are not in the same position, we're a playoff caliber team that is planning to let Rolle walk, that's why it's critical Johnson is ready to go earlier which is why I'm even bringing it up now.

 

[Duckjake]

He's playing much better but again, he's NOT starting, he lost his job to Hiram Eugene, the stats you're seeing are essentially in nickel and dime coverage.

Sounds exactly like what we need. A guy who can be a playmaker at Safety in those situations.

Any way we can con the Raiders into letting us have him?

EDIT: It took Quentin Jammer about 4 years to develop into a quality DB. Must take that long to get 6th Street out of those boys.

 

[Russ Smith]

Sounds exactly like what we need. A guy who can be a playmaker at Safety in those situations.

Any way we can con the Raiders into letting us have him?

This year it is, next year if we let Rolle walk he'd be the starter. I'm actually of the opinion we may not be able to let Rolle walk, we may be forced to work out a new deal for him because aside from Johnson there's nobody on our roster I think can play FS and it's not clear Johnson will be ready.

Now for the raiders the problem is obvious, they've paid Huff 4 years of first round money and this is the first production they've gotten, as a backup.

I think when you play the colts, FS is one of the first positions you start to worry about because Manning is so good at fooling safeties. Remember Favre and the Jets last year, made Rolle look foolish. We'll see how much he's progressed next week.

 

[Duckjake]

This year it is, next year if we let Rolle walk he'd be the starter. I'm actually of the opinion we may not be able to let Rolle walk, we may be forced to work out a new deal for him because aside from Johnson there's nobody on our roster I think can play FS and it's not clear Johnson will be ready.

Now for the raiders the problem is obvious, they've paid Huff 4 years of first round money and this is the first production they've gotten, as a backup.

I think when you play the colts, FS is one of the first positions you start to worry about because Manning is so good at fooling safeties. Remember Favre and the Jets last year, made Rolle look foolish. We'll see how much he's progressed next week.

I wouldn't have Huff as the starter just as our 3rd safety. A position that sees a lot of playing time in our Defense. For now at least Huff looks like that spot is perfect for him. Not what you want from a 1st round guy but hey look at Rolle. They didn't draft him to be a Freestrong Safety but he is.

What was the problem with Huff? I don't see much difference in Huff's numbers and Rolle's has as a Safety. You don't see anyone talking about cutting Antrel or replacing him with Matt Ware. So it must have been a fairly serious problem that doesn't show up in the stats.

 

[Russ Smith]

I wouldn't have Huff as the starter just as our 3rd safety. A position that sees a lot of playing time in our Defense. For now at least Huff looks like that spot is perfect for him. Not what you want from a 1st round guy but hey look at Rolle. They didn't draft him to be a Freestrong Safety but he is.

What was the problem with Huff? I don't see much difference in Huff's numbers and Rolle's has as a Safety. You don't see anyone talking about cutting Antrel or replacing him with Matt Ware. So it must have been a fairly serious problem that doesn't show up in the stats.

Huff was terrible in coverage, constantly getting beat over the top. When you remember that nobody throws at Asomugha it basically means Huff only had to be responsible for one side of the field deep most of the time but he was much better in run support than he was in coverage. 1 INT in 3 years at safety with 39 career starts will tell you what he did. His first 2 years the Raiders had to change the defense and play left/right instead of strong/free with the safeties because Huff was out of position so much.

He's off to a nice start this year that's for sure. His problem was also the list of guys they passed on to take him. Leinart, Cutler, Ngata, Antonio Cromartie, Santonio Holmes, DeAngelo Williams etc. Much like Levi, he was struggling and guys they passed on were becoming stars, so it made the pick look even worse.

 

[lauraw]

RJohnson will be fine.. by the end of the year, our prayers willhave him starting some of the time..