A decent QB would have ended up with 3-4 TD's. Hoyer missed multiple wide-open receivers.
The issue with Bettcher
- Thread starter Chopper0080
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A decent QB would have ended up with 3-4 TD's. Hoyer missed multiple wide-open receivers.
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eastcoastSUN
Hall of Famer
THIS. It also didn't help that SF receivers dropped at least 3-4 well placed balls. Also, had Hoyer just picked on Bethel a few more times, the score may have been different. I counted at least three instances where Bethel was in position but did not get his head turned around (had Hoyer placed the ball better, these would have been easy 25+ yd completions).
You thought this defense was elite coming into the season? Wow come on man, let's take off the rose colored glasses. This defense is in a transition period a lot of the older veterans have moved on its youth movement time now.
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Bad offense also hurts the defense.
RON_IN_OC
https://www.ronevansrealty.com
Maybe they can't be as aggressive as they want, with Bethel and Badger trying to cover downfield. With Buc back to full speed, hopefully that will allow some things to switch around with coverages, so they can be more aggressive.
OP
OP
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
I agree, but I didn't want to go there as that is subjective. My theory is that elite defenses cause good QBs to have average production, average QBs to have bad production, and bad QBs to have no production. I believe we have the personnel of an elite defense and the production of an average one. This is what makes the unit underachieving in my eyes. 13 points to Jacoby Brissett and 15 points to Brian Hoyer is underachieving in my mind. Those are QBs on teams/rosters that elite defense shut down, especially if the offense is struggling. Dak put up 28 in our home, and Stafford put up 35 (7 of those on a defensive TD). These are QBs we need to hold under 24 points to get a win with our roster, and is what an elite defense would do in my experience.
I have a problem with us playing so much zone, we don't have good personel for that, and we wouldn't get so much passing yards against if we didn't.
Bethel sometimes wasn't on the money but in that one deep ball where he tipped the ball out of the hands, that play, will pay him a bunch of money in FA. And the Commentator called it as a great play and in fact it was one, I reviewed it, he was a step behind and made it look as he was still faster then the WR. You can't ask a CB2 more, that will pay him 8-12 millions by a CB desperate team.
And Bethel isn't the real problem. Somehow it seems we give up a big play when we play zone, always. There are some when we play man to man but if we play zone, the opponent will have a first down, it's automatic.
Bettcher needs to adjust more and to read the opponent better, he doesn't do that well, we saw it against Carolina we saw it last year, we see it this year. The problem is, he isn't new anymore he should get better, not worse.
And yes, the D isn't our weakest link, that is ST and thann O but, the D is struggling too.
Bethel sometimes wasn't on the money but in that one deep ball where he tipped the ball out of the hands, that play, will pay him a bunch of money in FA. And the Commentator called it as a great play and in fact it was one, I reviewed it, he was a step behind and made it look as he was still faster then the WR. You can't ask a CB2 more, that will pay him 8-12 millions by a CB desperate team.
And Bethel isn't the real problem. Somehow it seems we give up a big play when we play zone, always. There are some when we play man to man but if we play zone, the opponent will have a first down, it's automatic.
Bettcher needs to adjust more and to read the opponent better, he doesn't do that well, we saw it against Carolina we saw it last year, we see it this year. The problem is, he isn't new anymore he should get better, not worse.
And yes, the D isn't our weakest link, that is ST and thann O but, the D is struggling too.
OP
OP
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
What?
Patrick Peterson - 10 mil+
Chandler Jones - 10 mil+
Tyrann Mathieu - 9 mil+
Markus Golden - 10+ sacks
Robert Nkemdiche - 1st round pick
Deone Bucannon - 1st round pick
Corey Peters - 3.6 mil
Justin Bethel - 3.5 mil
Antoine Bethea - 3.4 mil
Josh Mauro - 2.5 mil
Haason Reddick - 1st rounder
Budda Baker - 2nd rounder
Karlos Dansby - 2.25 mil
Tyvon Branch - 2.21 mil
Tramon Williams - 1.95 mil
I was going to say we are spending like we have an elite defense...but as it turns out, we aren't. 20th out of 32 teams so I may have to re-evaluate that. Maybe I am overstating our defensive talent.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
THIS! It seems like we only have run blitzes (which is why it seems like guys are running right into blockers) and very few pass blitzes designed to create free runners. Stunts and twists from the front seven seem non-existent.
Buc is essentially an underweight two-down defender. That we pulled Los for Bucannon in third-and-longs makes no sense to me. He still can't read and react to a defense from inside the box. He has no instincts.
Combine that with an unwillingness to pull the trigger on A-gap blitzes, and you have a recipe for underperformance.
Peterson and Jones are elite. Mathuie has blown out both his knees and anyone who could look at him with there eyes and not heart could tell he's not the same anymore
I like Golden but make no mistake he's a pure effort guy. He's not some physical freak talent.
Dansby is 54
Bucannon was a SS in school and is an undersized LB and I love his effort and what he brings he's still very undersized.
Reddick and baker are rookies
The rest are average at best
I dunno - I consider Seattle a pretty good defense and they didn't fare too much differently against Hoyer and Brissett. Situationally, I think Bettcher needs work, I wouldn't mind a better coordinator, but really, if he could be mentored by someone with some cajones - I would be happy.
Brissett Comp Att Pct Yds Rate
ARI 20 37 54.1 216 60.2
@SEA 16 29 55.2 157 67.7
Hoyer
@SEA L 9-12 15 27 55.6 99 48.2
LA L 39-41 23 37 62.2 332 98.0
@ARI L 15-18 24 49 49.0 234 54.3
Jetstream Green
Kool Aid with a touch of vodka
We have great talent on this defense. The only real weakness is the DL but that could only be consider a weakness because they are average if you are judging them by elite standards but I say we should not... we have such talent on defense that Bettcher is able to save face for being a coaching moron
Mitch
Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Talent, yes, Roy. But what's missing are two key things: discipline and tackling. Without those two things, a Bettcher defense will never be great.
Jetstream Green
Kool Aid with a touch of vodka
Hence coaching, from impressing on guys fundamentals to the schemes they run which do not put them in the best possible position to succeed from my observation... Bettcher has some issues and most start after the half when he is unable to make adjustments
Mitch
Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
BA doesn't want to teach fundamentals ... that is my biggest issue with him and the guys coming out of college nowadays.
Gosh ... some Highschool kids 20 years ago had better Technique than O-line College players today ... this whole playaction, air raid and gimmick College Football game is nice to view for TD hungry people but, has nothing to do with real man Football, and when there are 11 top guys on the opponent side, this gimmick/playaction Airraid football is just ... bad. Okay it is probably more enjoyable for the masses that don't understand technique or skills, but from my point of view everything that doesn't play CB, S, ILB, OLB, WR, RB, TE doesn't really have a chance without teaching strong fundamentals to see the field or succseed. And even this positions need some or much teaching for example if you want a CB going man coverage.
So this "I'm not here coaching fundamentals" is totally bullshitt nowadays and like BA did cry out for a farm league, I was in dispelieve. This is the NFL it isn't basketball or Baseball, where guys can easily play till theire mid 40's on a high level. This is the NFL and with 30 most non QB are old and with mid 30 about every non QB is retired. There are some exeptions, but about 98% of all players is out of the NFL with mid 30. So his blablurb is a total ********. And if you watch other teams, somehow many got that, but he missed the note that you need to teach the fundamentals first, than your guys can achieve something.
For me, that is why Harbaugh was so good as a NFL coach, he teached them the fundamentals first, easy gameplans and than made a system around his guys. And achieved much with an average or a bit above talent group.
I have a feeling with Golden now done for the year we will see Jones maybe get 5 more sacks all season if he really puts in effort. If not then probably 3 at most. Martin is not going ot demand the attention Golden did. In fact I suspect teams will leave their RT on an island with Martin.
That will be the case if Martin or Reddick can't get sacks.
Chandler will get some sacks, he beats double teams, did it last year and this year, but with only 1 guy on the line, they will stop him as much as possible, and if neither Martin/Reddick or Nkdemiche can put up pressure, Chandler will have a hard season.
Harry
ASFN Consultant and Senior Writer
Reddick will make some mistakes, but he'll be an upgrade over Golden. Baker will see more & more time. If a Peters plays the way he's been playing for the remainder of the year. This D will keep the Cards in about 80% of the games.
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we have "great talent" on D? We have a bunch of average Joe's on the D-Line... at this point Chandler Jones is the only LBer we have making any impact and in the secondary, PP is pretty much on an island with HB not just looking like a shell of himself, but a shell of a football player period.
That's TWO impact makers out of ELEVEN on D. Jury is still out on Riddick, next to him isn't the Dansby of old... but more like an old Dansby (which pains me as much as anyone here to say considering he was my favorite player on D in both his stints) and the less said about the rest of the secondary, the better. Hell, I'll even give an inch and put Branch in difference makers. That's 3/11 players on D who make an impact.
All that said, the blitz designs that Bettcher comes up with a Dave McGuiness bad.
JeffGollin
ASFN Icon
Garth - back up a step. As the OL goes, so too goes Palmer.
The only way Palmer plays well (enough) is if the OL doesn't turn him into a human tackling dummy.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Reddick is 237 lbs while Golden is listed at 255. I wouldn't be surprised if Reddick lost weight for the position change.
But Von Miller apparently plays at 235 and is two inches taller than Reddick. Miller was one of the biggest evaluation errors I've ever made. That guy is a beast.
But Von Miller apparently plays at 235 and is two inches taller than Reddick. Miller was one of the biggest evaluation errors I've ever made. That guy is a beast.
My son keeps saying that we forgot how to hit, that we tackle soft and if a man is going down we don't finish with force..
