The long reaching effects of the Cards stadium

[Skkorpion]

Over on the Dbaks board, it was just posted that the Cleveland Indians have signed a deal to move their spring training from Florida to Goodyear, AZ. Goodyear is also negotiating with another Florida based team to come here.

The Dodgers want to move to Glendale, Az as well.

All of this funded by TSA money. That would bring a total of 14 of baseball's 30 teams training here in the Valley of the Sun.

Those of you with kids, especially here on the west side, no doubt have seen and/or used the multiple new soccer and baseball fields.

All paid for with TSA money. Just like the Prop 302 proponents said it would.

Good stuff. Thank you Bill Bidwill, the city of Glendale and Arizona soccer moms and all the voters.

But I honestly don't think anybody realized that the West valley economies, the Maricopa county economy, baseball fans of so many teams and soccer moms and kids would benefit quite so much from the stadium district tax.

And it's mainly paid by our tourists. I'm also pleased to pay my $4.50 TSA tax surcharge on every Cards ticket I buy.

And meanwhile, Mesa is cutting fire and police services, raising user fees on trash collection and other services and still hemorrhaging money and jobs.

 

[chicards11]

Over on the Dbaks board, it was just posted that the Cleveland Indians have signed a deal to move their spring training from Florida to Goodyear, AZ. Goodyear is also negotiating with another Florida based team to come here.

The Dodgers want to move to Glendale, Az as well.

All of this funded by TSA money. That would bring a total of 14 of baseball's 30 teams training here in the Valley of the Sun.

Those of you with kids, especially here on the west side, no doubt have seen and/or used the multiple new soccer and baseball fields.

All paid for with TSA money. Just like the Prop 302 proponents said it would.

Good stuff. Thank you Bill Bidwill, the city of Glendale and Arizona soccer moms and all the voters.

But I honestly don't think anybody realized that the West valley economies, the Maricopa county economy, baseball fans of so many teams and soccer moms and kids would benefit quite so much from the stadium district tax.

And it's mainly paid by our tourists. I'm also pleased to pay my $4.50 TSA tax surcharge on every Cards ticket I buy.

And meanwhile, Mesa is cutting fire and police services, raising user fees on trash collection and other services and still hemorrhaging money and jobs.

As soon as the White Sox can find a leasee for Tuscon Electric park , they will be moving to glendale

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Over on the Dbaks board, it was just posted that the Cleveland Indians have signed a deal to move their spring training from Florida to Goodyear, AZ. Goodyear is also negotiating with another Florida based team to come here.

The Dodgers want to move to Glendale, Az as well.

All of this funded by TSA money. That would bring a total of 14 of baseball's 30 teams training here in the Valley of the Sun.

Those of you with kids, especially here on the west side, no doubt have seen and/or used the multiple new soccer and baseball fields.

All paid for with TSA money. Just like the Prop 302 proponents said it would.

Good stuff. Thank you Bill Bidwill, the city of Glendale and Arizona soccer moms and all the voters.

But I honestly don't think anybody realized that the West valley economies, the Maricopa county economy, baseball fans of so many teams and soccer moms and kids would benefit quite so much from the stadium district tax.

And it's mainly paid by our tourists. I'm also pleased to pay my $4.50 TSA tax surcharge on every Cards ticket I buy.

And meanwhile, Mesa is cutting fire and police services, raising user fees on trash collection and other services and still hemorrhaging money and jobs.

A big reason why I voted for it.

 

[football karma]

Dodger ARE moving to the West Side from Florida

Mesa dropped the ball as you noted.

Skip Rimza and Phoenix however really screwed the pooch. As background, Skip is well known as a Cardinal hater. I am sure the Bidwills did something to add to the animus, but it was there prior to that. Skip (like many) was absolutely sure that the stadium funding proposal wouldnt pass. As a result, he did next to nothing in terms of putting a viable site in Phoenix forward.

Then the funding DOES pass, and Skip is caught totally unprepared. They slapped together a package that was DOA due to a multitude of issues on gathering up enough land to get it done and to contingencies on City of Phoenix funding. Of course, the downtown Phoenix site is eliminated.

However, the site that is picked is a Tempe site that is practically on the border with Phoenix at 56th and Washington. Does Skip figure to make the best of the situation and support the Tempe site? After all, for Superbowls, the hotels at 44th and Van Buren in Phoenix are just as close as those on Mill in Tempe. While not in Phoenix, it stood to benefit mightily from the location of the stadium.

Fat chance -- Skip and Phoenix make hay of FAA "concerns" as the ultimate knife they can plunge in the back of hated rivals Tempe and the Cardinals. Remember Peggy Bilsten's breathless "people will die" quote. Interestingly, the B of A tower being built in downtown Phoenix ran afoul of the same FAA issues -- but of course, that died quietly and the tower went up.

The Tempe site is pulled -- only to have the stadium show up 15 miles west in Glendale.

The stadium is a huge factor in pulling the geographic center of the Valley west. Skip could have had much of that for Phoenix, but absolutely failed.

 

[jw7]

Skkorp, I agree with you 99%.

I proudly voted for prop 302 and am glad I did. SDS might be fine for college, but it was a craphole for pro football. One MNF game and one Super Bowl down, more to go.

Mesa and Tempe really dropped the ball on this, and while I don't live there - go Glendale!

And while Bill Bidwill was behind the scenes, it was really Michael who led the fight to get this done.

The only problem I have is that they promised that Maricopa county residents would be exempt from the TSA surcharges for rental cars and hotels. That is not true, they charge the TSA fee whether you are a MC resident or not, so it is not just tourists.

 

[Shane]

Skkorp, I agree with you 99%.

I proudly voted for prop 302 and am glad I did. SDS might be fine for college, but it was a craphole for pro football. One MNF game and one Super Bowl down, more to go.

Mesa and Tempe really dropped the ball on this, and while I don't live there - go Glendale!

And while Bill Bidwill was behind the scenes, it was really Michael who led the fight to get this done.

The only problem I have is that they promised that Maricopa county residents would be exempt from the TSA surcharges for rental cars and hotels. That is not true, they charge the TSA fee whether you are a MC resident or not, so it is not just tourists.

I dont see how you can say they dropped the ball per say. Considering that the stadium was lined up to be built in Tempe prior to all the jackass bogus lawsuits.

 

[O]

I dont see how you can say they dropped the ball per say. Considering that the stadium was lined up to be built in Tempe prior to all the jackass bogus lawsuits.

The origional site on the Mesa Tempe border now houses a mall.
One of the arguments put forth was the stadium would attract prostitutes.
Yeah, Mesa and Tempe dropped the ball!
Big time!

 

[Shane]

The origional site on the Mesa Tempe border now houses a mall.
One of the arguments put forth was the stadium would attract prostitutes.
Yeah, Mesa and Tempe dropped the ball!
Big time!

How so? The original sight which was all lined up and ready to go from my recollection got crap canned because a week azzed argument about air traffic safety.

 

[jefftheshark]

One of the arguments put forth was the stadium would attract prostitutes.

And that's supposed to be a bad thing?

Sincerely,

Charlie Sheen

 

[40yearfan]

The origional site on the Mesa Tempe border now houses a mall.
One of the arguments put forth was the stadium would attract prostitutes.
Yeah, Mesa and Tempe dropped the ball!
Big time!

And that's supposed to be a bad thing?

Sincerely,

Charlie Sheen

I've picked up more prostitutes in my time than any 10 men.

Sincerely,

Sheriff Joe

 

[TruColor]

Here's an outline of the stadium design/site selection process (as outlined in the Eisenman Architects: University of Phoenix Stadium for the Arizona Cardinals book):

1. Tempe (proposed circa 1997-1998): Near the Cardinals practice facility. This first proposal included a hockey arena, football stadium, sports complex, a hotel, and a shopping area. The hockey arena and football stadium were to have a central hotel between them that would have contained some of the suites and club seats for the stadium and arena. The sports-center concept was rejected when East Valley mayors made it clear that any stadium project had to be about more than sports. They also felt that the project would be more likely to be approved if the local funding was shareed between two communities, so the site was shifted slightly east to straddle the Tempe-Mesa border.
2. Tempe/Mesa (circa 1998-1999): This second project straddled the border between Mesa and Tempe and was combined with convention center as a base. This project was abandoned after the Tempe city council refused to place a stadium resolution on the ballot for a public vote.
3. Rio Salado Crossing (Mesa) (circa 1999): This new project would have included the stadium, a convention center, residential blocks, and a golf course. The citizens of Mesa had to vote on a bond issue that would allow revenues to be collected for the stadium, but voters turned down the referendum.
4. Papago Park (Tempe) (circa 2000-2001): The state legislature voted to create the AZSTA to issue bonds in Maricopa county that would help pay for the stadium, in addition to the money that the Cardinals owners would contribute. The project moved to a new site back in Tempe. The city of Phoenix was concerned that the stadium was in the flight path to Sky Harbor Airport - as are Sun Devil Stadium and Chase Field. But it was now post-9/11. AZSTA made the policy decision that it would abide voluntarily if the FAA found that the stadium could be a possible hazard to air navigation. Even moving the the structure to another parcel on the site failed to meet FAA requirements.
5. Glendale (circa 2000-2001): After exploring a variety of other sites in Maricopa county, including a site in downtown Phoenix, and a site in the Gila River Indian Community, all of which were considered inappropriate for one reason or another, the AZSTA selected a site in Glendale, in the West Valley. Done and done.

I've paraphrased and condensed the site selection process here, but this should be fairly comprehensive. I hope.

 

[jw7]

How so? The original sight which was all lined up and ready to go from my recollection got crap canned because a week azzed argument about air traffic safety.

Yes, it was some lady (can't remember if she was city council or on the airport advisory board or what capacity she was in) that made a bunch of TV appearances objecting to the stadium on the east side because "people are going to die!" due to flight paths to Sky Harbor.

Which is weird. For one, Sun Devil Stadium is already close to the approach flight paths, and two, I've lived in Phoenix for years and don't remember a commercial jet ever crashing here on approach.

Yes, Tempe and Mesa (and a couple of the Indian reservations) absolutely dropped the ball on this local economy-booster, with only themselves to blame.

Sadly, actually Luke AFB has had more Phoenix F-16 crashes over the years on the west side which technically makes Glendale a worse risk.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Totally agree skkorp! Also, I believe the Cincy Reds have either finalized their plans or are about to, to move to Glendale/Peoria... Great stuff!!

As for Maricopa County residents paying the TSA User-tax on car rentals and hotels - not sure about anyone other Maricopa County residents but I never rent a car in my home county... why would I? I live here!

 

[ajcardfan]

I would've voted for it if it involved robbing senior citizens of their social security checks and supplying kids to work in chinese factories. The fact that all these benefits to the Valley have come through .... icing on the cake.

 

[cardsloco]

The origional site on the Mesa Tempe border now houses a mall.
One of the arguments put forth was the stadium would attract prostitutes.
Yeah, Mesa and Tempe dropped the ball!
Big time!

Mesa was the only one with a say on that site, and their voters killed it. Tempe even looked into three other sites after Phoenix torpedoed the Salt River site. Tempe did everything it could.

 

[WildBB]

FAA "concerns" The Tempe site is pulled -- only to have the stadium show up 15 miles west in Glendale.

The stadium is a huge factor in pulling the geographic center of the Valley west. Skip could have had much of that for Phoenix, but absolutely failed.

The FAA factor was legitimate, since the stadium would have been directly in the take-off/landing path of the North runway. Besides the constant stream of jet diesel above and the noise somewhat it's just wasn't a smart move to want it there. Parking would have been a bigger issue and venues around there as well.

As it turns out Glendale and the 101 was indeed the perfect place for two stadiums side by side and put legitimacy into the westside.

 

[cardsloco]

The FAA factor was legitimate, since the stadium would have been directly in the take-off/landing path of the North runway. Besides the constant stream of jet diesel above and the noise somewhat it's just wasn't a smart move to want it there. Parking would have been a bigger issue and venues around there as well.

As it turns out Glendale and the 101 was indeed the perfect place for two stadiums side by side and put legitimacy into the westside.

Chase Field is more in the flight pattern then the Tempe site would have been. In fact Sundevil stadium is closer as well. I think Glendale has done an incredible job developing the area and I think they are just getting started. The only bad part about the Glendale site is freeway access. The Mesa site would have had the best access with the 60, 202, and 101 all very close. I think something will be done eventually to free up all the traffic that heads back east, and then the site in Glendale will be perfect.

 

[WildBB]

Chase Field is more in the flight pattern then the Tempe site would have been. In fact Sundevil stadium is closer as well. I think Glendale has done an incredible job developing the area and I think they are just getting started. The only bad part about the Glendale site is freeway access. The Mesa site would have had the best access with the 60, 202, and 101 all very close. I think something will be done eventually to free up all the traffic that heads back east, and then the site in Glendale will be perfect.

The difference is Chase Field is alot father away from the end of the landing strips then where the football field would have been at the Washington site.
Sundevil wasn't in the direct landing path but on the side of it.

I thoughy the freeway access is pretty good from Bethany Home/Glendale. While alot go east, plenty head up north too. It's just getting out of the stadium thats the problem IMO.

 

[cardsloco]

The difference is Chase Field is alot father away from the end of the landing strips then where the football field would have been at the Washington site.
Sundevil wasn't in the direct landing path but on the side of it.

I thoughy the freeway access is pretty good from Bethany Home/Glendale. While alot go east, plenty head up north too. It's just getting out of the stadium thats the problem IMO.

The truth is Phoenix was paying back Tempe for years of complaining about the air traffic patterns. The highth of Cards stadium is much less then the D-Backs home.The planes used to fly directly over the stadium during the games at ASU. In fact after 9-11 it was a little nerve racking as they passed. I usally wait an hour or so after the games in the parking lots waiting for traffic to die down. The result is a little better, but we have found traveling home on the steets faster. We don't care because we love our Cards, but access to one freeway, with the majority heading the same direction, is not good.

 

[football karma]

The difference is Chase Field is alot father away from the end of the landing strips then where the football field would have been at the Washington site.
Sundevil wasn't in the direct landing path but on the side of it.

.

The best comparison is the B of A tower in downtown Phoenix -- almost the mirror image of where the Cardinals stadium was going to be in Tempe relative to the north runway at Skyharbor-- a bit farther away, but also alot taller and more in the direct flight path

the FAA noted the exact same issue as it did with the Cardinals stadium, but somehow the issue went away quietly.

 

[WildBB]

The best comparison is the B of A tower in downtown Phoenix -- almost the mirror image of where the Cardinals stadium was going to be in Tempe relative to the north runway at Skyharbor-- a bit farther away, but also alot taller and more in the direct flight path

the FAA noted the exact same issue as it did with the Cardinals stadium, but somehow the issue went away quietly.

True , but also there isn't going to be 65,000 people in that building. But I see the politics being played in that situation.

Something to note however was that the Pilots Assoc. was vehimently oppposed to the statium site on Washington. Why not the B of A tower?Again , just maybe the powers playing politics.

 

[SECTION 11]

The planes used to fly directly over the stadium during the games at ASU. In fact after 9-11 it was a little nerve racking as they passed.

Remember the FedEx plane at the very next game after 9-11? That was the closest I'd ever seen a plane to SDS. Couldn't freaking believe what I was seeing.

 

[nidan]

I remember that vividly

 

[40yearfan]

Remember the FedEx plane at the very next game after 9-11? That was the closest I'd ever seen a plane to SDS. Couldn't freaking believe what I was seeing.

Yeah, he was so low, you could tell he had Goodyear tires.

 

[ajcardfan]

Remember the FedEx plane at the very next game after 9-11? That was the closest I'd ever seen a plane to SDS. Couldn't freaking believe what I was seeing.

Yep, I remember that very well. That year, I would count the number of planes that flew right over SDS every game. I think the lowest number was 3or 4.

I always maintained at that time, and still do, that the flight route thing was pure bs. Fly in and out of San Diego airport some time.

You must be registered for see images