The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power (Amazon Prime)

[Chaplin]

There's actually a lot known about it, despite Amazon trying very hard to keep things under wraps because they know it's bad.

The most glaring example is pretty much everything Galadriel does in the first season of this tv series, she didn't actually do and is pretty much diametrically against who the character is, what the character does, and how the character acts.

There are many, many people online tracking and reporting on this with very detailed analysis.

But you don’t know how she gets there. I’m just fascinated that you have written this off based on, ahem, the internet.

If you choose not to watch, more power to you, but I for one am reserving judgement until I see it. You either trust “critics” or you don’t.

 

[Stout]

There's actually a lot known about it, despite Amazon trying very hard to keep things under wraps because they know it's bad.

The most glaring example is pretty much everything Galadriel does in the first season of this tv series, she didn't actually do and is pretty much diametrically against who the character is, what the character does, and how the character acts.

There are many, many people online tracking and reporting on this with very detailed analysis.

Well, since it would be impossible for "many, many people online" to track something that hasn't been released yet, I can't give that much credence. As far as Youtube upvotes/downvotes, I mean, who really gives AF?

Not sure about the lore in the series at this point. We'll see.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

How do you know that? “Severely” is pretty strong language about something that very little is known about and isn’t even out yet.

That’s why I don’t even get the ratio. People voting with virtually no knowledge. Well, I guess that’s just the new American way. Ignorance rules!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Also, even if it doesn’t track the books it doesn’t mean it’s “bad.” It could be the greatest show of all time, it just wouldn’t provide fanboys what they’re seeking. For those of us that read the books but consider any book “sacred” I always approach tv or movie adaptations as something loosely based upon a book. I don’t care if it doesn’t track if it’s still well done and a good, albeit different, story.

 

[Dback Jon]

Also, even if it doesn’t track the books it doesn’t mean it’s “bad.” It could be the greatest show of all time, it just wouldn’t provide fanboys what they’re seeking. For those of us that read the books but consider any book “sacred” I always approach tv or movie adaptations as something loosely based upon a book. I don’t care if it doesn’t track if it’s still well done and a good, albeit different, story.

Yup - it is like the Tom Cruise Jack Reacher movie.

Horrible Jack Reacher movie, but a great Tom Cruise movie.

Both can be true.

 

[carrrnuttt]

Also, even if it doesn’t track the books it doesn’t mean it’s “bad.” It could be the greatest show of all time, it just wouldn’t provide fanboys what they’re seeking. For those of us that read the books but consider any book “sacred” I always approach tv or movie adaptations as something loosely based upon a book. I don’t care if it doesn’t track if it’s still well done and a good, albeit different, story.

The "The Boys" series is SEVERELY different from its source material in the comics, but it is actually better for it and better for fans that have read the comics, since the show is as surprising for them as it is for people who haven't even read comics, much less the source comics.

The point being: I'll reserve judgement until the show actually releases.

 

[Covert Rain]

Also, even if it doesn’t track the books it doesn’t mean it’s “bad.” It could be the greatest show of all time, it just wouldn’t provide fanboys what they’re seeking. For those of us that read the books but consider any book “sacred” I always approach tv or movie adaptations as something loosely based upon a book. I don’t care if it doesn’t track if it’s still well done and a good, albeit different, story.

I swear some fanboys are critical just to be critical. My concerns have NOTHING to do with it ruining the canon of the books. It's all around the quality of the product they produce. With a such a large budge and expectations? It's going to be interesting to say the least.

Having said that? Fanboys are hilariously hysterical for no reason. This series is supposed to take place during the Second Age which according to source material spans 3,441 years. Other than that, there is no "official" history in the 2nd age other than the short appendices in the books. This was all approved by the Tolkien estate which is notoriously protective of the property. So, much so they have refused all overtures to film anything else new that takes place in the Third age (where the Peter Jackson movies take place).

Amazon just didn't get to do what they wanted. NOTHING that Amazon is doing has been without approval of the Tolkien estate which is co-producing. So, if this goes bad it's also on the Tolkien estate as well given they approved the parameters. For example, they cannot contradict "history" (3rd age) but they can explore what happened prior to the 3rd age. The estate also dictated to Amazon it must be canonical. The estate also has Tom Shippey (Tolkien Scholar) as part of the production team to ensure the "lore" stays intact.

So, either the fanboys didn't realize this all went through the estate or they are just getting worked up about something they have not seen yet and making assumptions. LOL.

 

[Cheesebeef]

There's actually a lot known about it, despite Amazon trying very hard to keep things under wraps because they know it's bad.

The most glaring example is pretty much everything Galadriel does in the first season of this tv series, she didn't actually do and is pretty much diametrically against who the character is, what the character does, and how the character acts.

There are many, many people online tracking and reporting on this with very detailed analysis.

That’s a lot of chatter… for a show that doesn’t come out for another month. I mean… you literally just used the ridiculous “Many people are saying…” which usually has zero bearing on reality.

I mean… you say the most glaring example is everything Galadriel does in season 1. It’s bizarre to write something is a glaring example of anything they’ve never seen.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Well I for one am excited to watch it.

 

[WaywardFan]

People have seen it, at least the first few episodes. Moreover some people who care are in contact with people inside the production crew. The leaks against the trailers have so far been accurate. I can certainly provide links to discussions, though by the sounds of it no one is interested in that.

It stinks there's such intolerance against those to whom this is important, the derisively named "fanboys". I think the only book that has sold more copies and has had more translations into other languages than the collected works of Middle Earth is the Bible. So, we're not talking some fringe group. With the recent bastardization of beloved franchises, fans are rightly concerned. And given what's been leaked and what's been seen, they have just cause.

Tolkien and his son Christopher WERE notoriously protective. That's why the rights were sold to Amazon quickly after Christopher's death. The remaining members of the estate care only about the millions and not the legacy. What they are allowed to use and what they aren't is very specific, but if the estate doesn't care does it matter?

Tom Shipley the Tolkien scholar was fired for telling Amazon they were "polluting the lore" so there's no real monitoring or interest in adherence to either the lore or what they have rights to.

Obviously anyone can watch and form their own conclusion, enjoy or not. But there are millions who care deeply about that world and there's every indication that world is going to be warped and twisted. Changes can be good, but it's equally valid to say changes can also be bad.

Who is Amazon making this for anyway? Isn't it a better business model to present a product to the tens or hundreds of millions who read the books, watch the movies, buy billions in merchandise that they will like and demand more of?

 

[Chaplin]

This is Amazon. There is likely a major gag order on this show so I wouldn’t take anything anyone says that has links to someone on the production seriously.

Who are these people that have already seen the first few episodes? And why are they allowed to share anything about them on the internet? This isn’t some syndicated show by a no name production company.

Game of thrones was different than the books and had a very similar relationship to the author.

I didn’t see many references to the Shippey rumor, but the one thing that is clear that it’s a rumor only. Shippey apparently said what he said in a German interview. 2 things are wrong with that. One, if this was an interview then it is likely documented. I didn’t see it anywhere, just some vague rumor mongering on some comic book website. Second, this firing allegedly occurred after the script was written and production has already started. What need do they have if the development is done for a scholar? Wouldn’t the vast majority of his contribution be during the PRE-production phase?

Writing this off because of vague reasons and likes/dislikes on YouTube is jumping the gun don’t you think?

 

[Devilmaycare]

People have seen it, at least the first few episodes. Moreover some people who care are in contact with people inside the production crew. The leaks against the trailers have so far been accurate. I can certainly provide links to discussions, though by the sounds of it no one is interested in that.

It stinks there's such intolerance against those to whom this is important, the derisively named "fanboys". I think the only book that has sold more copies and has had more translations into other languages than the collected works of Middle Earth is the Bible. So, we're not talking some fringe group. With the recent bastardization of beloved franchises, fans are rightly concerned. And given what's been leaked and what's been seen, they have just cause.

Tolkien and his son Christopher WERE notoriously protective. That's why the rights were sold to Amazon quickly after Christopher's death. The remaining members of the estate care only about the millions and not the legacy. What they are allowed to use and what they aren't is very specific, but if the estate doesn't care does it matter?

Tom Shipley the Tolkien scholar was fired for telling Amazon they were "polluting the lore" so there's no real monitoring or interest in adherence to either the lore or what they have rights to.

Obviously anyone can watch and form their own conclusion, enjoy or not. But there are millions who care deeply about that world and there's every indication that world is going to be warped and twisted. Changes can be good, but it's equally valid to say changes can also be bad.

Who is Amazon making this for anyway? Isn't it a better business model to present a product to the tens or hundreds of millions who read the books, watch the movies, buy billions in merchandise that they will like and demand more of?

+1 I'm with and will put myself in the fanboy category for LotR. If canon doesn't matter then why make a LotR show? Make an original fantasy IP if that's the case. Then you can do anything that you want and don't have all of the Tolkien "baggage" to deal with.

They want the LotR name to draw in the existing fan base. Well when you do that you get us and all our crankiness on respecting Tolkien's work. That's something that from all accounts from the leaks and the trailers has not been done. Tolkien was very specific in his writing and if you deviate from it then you're going to hear about. There's many directions they could have gone that does that while still bringing in modern elements but they chose not too.

Just look at the garbage costuming that I posed yesterday. If they can't even get scale mail correct then how much else of it is going to be on the same quality level? Compare that to what Aragon and other's armor looked like in the movies. Night and day. And it's not that it's a TV show because they're budget dwarfs what the movies had.

 

[Chaplin]

+1 I'm with and will put myself in the fanboy category for LotR. If canon doesn't matter then why make a LotR show? Make an original fantasy IP if that's the case. Then you can do anything that you want and don't have all of the Tolkien "baggage" to deal with.

They want the LotR name to draw in the existing fan base. Well when you do that you get us and all our crankiness on respecting Tolkien's work. That's something that from all accounts from the leaks and the trailers has not been done. Tolkien was very specific in his writing and if you deviate from it then you're going to hear about. There's many directions they could have gone that does that while still bringing in modern elements but they chose not too.

Just look at the garbage costuming that I posed yesterday. If they can't even get scale mail correct then how much else of it is going to be on the same quality level? Compare that to what Aragon and other's armor looked like in the movies. Night and day. And it's not that it's a TV show because they're budget dwarfs what the movies had.

You don’t even know it isn’t canon! This is ridiculous.

 

[Devilmaycare]

You don’t even know it isn’t canon! This is ridiculous.

It's not ridiculous. We know it's not following canon from the trailers alone. There is so much wrong with them already that it's not funny.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I get being skeptical about the show because it looks cheap... which I agree with... but being up in arms about story when they've barely let anything out of the bag ain't my bag.

 

[carrrnuttt]

It's not ridiculous. We know it's not following canon from the trailers alone. There is so much wrong with them already that it's not funny.

Feel free to explain this to us plebes who weren't *that* into Tolkien.

Because as far as I know, NOTHING from the era this show is covering has any actual source material, other than minor references to it throughout the main books. What references were broken in the trailer?

It is also thousands of years before the occurrences in the main books/movies. So if the Galadriel you know from the books/movies isn't here, it's likely because she's had thousands of years to grow into what she became.

But please. Enlighten us.

 

[Covert Rain]

Please share these sources that the Estate doesn't care about the production, Amazon has violated the agreement and that nobody is watching the "ship". Tom Shipley has made no such comments about the show straying from canon or "polluting the lore". Provide legitimate sources not some REDDIT thread. All of this for stuff that they "heard" from someone's siter's, brother's uncle who works on the production.

I will say it again. I am not concerned at all about it being canon. Until I see a legitimate source or see for myself that it's breaking canon this is just hysterics. I am more concerned about the production value, writing and what that will do to the legacy of the "Verse" if this show sucks. Fantasy films are highly dependent on the quality of production. However, dumb complaints about costumes closeups doesn't cut it for me. Stills are always deceiving because you can see things you don't see when the camera is rolling.

It's not ridiculous. We know it's not following canon from the trailers alone. There is so much wrong with them already that it's not funny.

It is ridiculous until you can explain exactly how the trailer strays from canon keeping in mind Peter Jackson's strayed a bit as well. Please share what exactly in that trailer completely breaks canon, changes what happens in the 3rd age or the movies.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

People have seen it, at least the first few episodes. Moreover some people who care are in contact with people inside the production crew. The leaks against the trailers have so far been accurate. I can certainly provide links to discussions, though by the sounds of it no one is interested in that.

It stinks there's such intolerance against those to whom this is important, the derisively named "fanboys". I think the only book that has sold more copies and has had more translations into other languages than the collected works of Middle Earth is the Bible. So, we're not talking some fringe group. With the recent bastardization of beloved franchises, fans are rightly concerned. And given what's been leaked and what's been seen, they have just cause.

Tolkien and his son Christopher WERE notoriously protective. That's why the rights were sold to Amazon quickly after Christopher's death. The remaining members of the estate care only about the millions and not the legacy. What they are allowed to use and what they aren't is very specific, but if the estate doesn't care does it matter?

Tom Shipley the Tolkien scholar was fired for telling Amazon they were "polluting the lore" so there's no real monitoring or interest in adherence to either the lore or what they have rights to.

Obviously anyone can watch and form their own conclusion, enjoy or not. But there are millions who care deeply about that world and there's every indication that world is going to be warped and twisted. Changes can be good, but it's equally valid to say changes can also be bad.

Who is Amazon making this for anyway? Isn't it a better business model to present a product to the tens or hundreds of millions who read the books, watch the movies, buy billions in merchandise that they will like and demand more of?

I will never understand this perspective. You know how they don’t spoil the fantasy world for you? Don’t watch it. Problem solved.

 

[UncleChris]

It is ridiculous until you can explain exactly how the trailer strays from canon keeping in mind Peter Jackson's strayed a bit as well.

Indeed! I hated it that the Scouring of the Shire was excised from the movie, but I still consider the LOTR triolgy one of the greatest movie feats ever.

 

[Stout]

Indeed! I hated it that the Scouring of the Shire was excised from the movie, but I still consider the LOTR triolgy one of the greatest movie feats ever.

Yeah, I absolutely loathed Two Towers because Jackson didn't just stray from the book, but whizzed all over it, but I feel the same.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I will never understand this perspective. You know how they don’t spoil the fantasy world for you? Don’t watch it. Problem solved.

Or don’t take it as an extension of what came before.

An adaptation is just that.., an adaptation of someone else’s work. That means interpretations can be and likely will be different.

Getting butt hurt about it is the peak of toxic fandom.

 

[Covert Rain]

Or don’t take it as an extension of what came before.

An adaptation is just that.., an adaptation of someone else’s work. That means interpretations can be and likely will be different.

Getting butt hurt about it is the peak of toxic fandom.

I don't get why fandoms are getting so toxic these days. Immediate Star Wars hate, immediate Star Trek hate and immediate LOR hate. I mean, bottom line is, I would rather see universes expand and create new adaptations verses them sit for 5 decades and nobody cares about them anymore. Fandom toxicity has become the new norm. How about you just enjoy the ride and be glad there is new content to consume. If you don't like it? Don't watch. It really is that simple.

 

[Stout]

I don't get why fandoms are getting so toxic these days. Immediate Star Wars hate, immediate Star Trek hate and immediate LOR hate. I mean, bottom line is, I would rather see universes expand and create new adaptations verses them sit for 5 decades and nobody cares about them anymore. Fandom toxicity has become the new norm. How about you just enjoy the ride and be glad there is new content to consume. If you don't like it? Don't watch. It really is that simple.

Eh, there's toxic fandom and there's eye rolling and ignoring. I feel Disney is crushing Star Wars and don't care at all to view any of their content now. I don't go crazy about it online or gnash my teeth, though. If asked, or if a thread pops up, I'll chime in with an opinion. I can also think it's dumb to saturate the market with it, without being toxic about my opinion. There's a middle ground between toxic fandom and wanting tons of new content.

Edited to add that I agree with your last sentence.

 

[Covert Rain]

Eh, there's toxic fandom and there's eye rolling and ignoring. I feel Disney is crushing Star Wars and don't care at all to view any of their content now. I don't go crazy about it online or gnash my teeth, though. If asked, or if a thread pops up, I'll chime in with an opinion. I can also think it's dumb to saturate the market with it, without being toxic about my opinion. There's a middle ground between toxic fandom and wanting tons of new content.

Edited to add that I agree with your last sentence.

I wouldn't say Disney is hitting it out of the ballpark, but they are not crushing it either. The new content has been a mixed bag. There has been some fantastic content and some of it run of the mill blah. There has been nothing so far that I absolutely hate. The ratings are fantastic, and the box office is good. As long as there is demand for new content they should continue. They should take a cautionary tale with Trek though. There can be too much and if the quality isn't there people will tune out. Trek was dead on the vine for a bit. Interesting enough there is more Trek on TV now than ever before (2 live action shows, 2 animation shows) and fans are eating it up.

 

[Chaplin]

I wouldn't say Disney is hitting it out of the ballpark, but they are not crushing it either. The new content has been a mixed bag. There has been some fantastic content and some of it run of the mill blah. There has been nothing so far that I absolutely hate. The ratings are fantastic, and the box office is good. As long as there is demand for new content they should continue. They should take a cautionary tale with Trek though. There can be too much and if the quality isn't there people will tune out. Trek was dead on the vine for a bit. Interesting enough there is more Trek on TV now than ever before (2 live action shows, 2 animation shows) and fans are eating it up.

And it's ironic out of all that, the best Star Trek show on tv right now isn't even a Star Trek show.