The Mac Attack: Could Cam Newton be the Cardinals' next franchise quarterback?

[New Username]

I think the 2016 draft is where the Cardinals trade up to get a QB. If the juniors come out this will be a good QB draft.

Which QB's do you think will be franchise QB level?

Hackenberg? Connor Cook? Boykin? Jared Goff? Cody Kessler?

 

[daves]

Looks as though we can put this speculation to rest... at least for another few years!

Cam Newton, Panthers reach $103.8M extension

...dbs

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Which QB's do you think will be franchise QB level?

Hackenberg? Connor Cook? Boykin? Jared Goff? Cody Kessler?

None of those names make me think franchise QB. Hackenberg has the best tools but hasn't played anywhere near a high level.

A QB that has completely fallen off the radar is the kid from Stanford, Hogan. He has the size, arm strength, and plays in a pro system but has never progressed like many thought he would. Maybe he takes huge strides this year and gets his name back in the mix.

 

[cardpa]

Which QB's do you think will be franchise QB level?

Hackenberg? Connor Cook? Boykin? Jared Goff? Cody Kessler?

I never claimed any of them as Franchise QBs. I said good QBs. QBs that can solidify the position. One step down from franchise. I like Hackenberg and Cook the best out of all of them. If Hackenberg who like CBus said has all the tools, can regain his Freshman form, then he will be the first QB off the board if he comes out.

It's amazing what a coach can mean to the development of a player. Hackenberg looked like a sure thing under O'Brian and then Franklin came along really set Hackenberg back. Hopefully this tear he regains what he seemingly lost last year.

 

[cardpa]

I'm actually not that concerned about it. When the defense is this good, you really only need a Kyle Orton-level quarterback to get you to the playoffs. I don't get a lot of heartburn about the QB position's future for the Arizona Cardinals.

I don't think that Keim is going to want to swing for the fences. He didn't with Drew Stanton; he didn't with Logan Thomas. I think that you keep taking these little cuts while you have a player in place at the position. It makes little sense to me to be like the Pats and invest a 3rd round pick in Ryan Mallett and get no return on that after three years.

So this begs the question what happens if these little cuts don't work out and Palmer hangs up the cleats and you have the same post Warner situation, nothing worth putting on the field that is even Orton level play.

 

[kerouac9]

So this begs the question what happens if these little cuts don't work out and Palmer hangs up the cleats and you have the same post Warner situation, nothing worth putting on the field that is even Orton level play.

I think the problem with the post-Warner situation was that you were depending on Leinart, or there was a mis-communication between the coaching staff and front office about Leinart's future outlook. I think that revealed something about a dysfunctional coaching staff and front office, more than a cyclical problem that teams experience.

Guys like Orton are always available. I don't need a crystal ball to see that someone of the like of Ryan Fitzpatrick, Ryan Mallett, Brian Hoyer, Drew Stanton, Sam Bradford, etc. will be available at the start of any particular offseason and can be acquired as a starter for $5M in guaranteed money that increases to $8-$12M with playing time incentives. Orton himself was available on the eve of the season last year.

It makes no sense to me to use a first- or second-round pick on a quarterback that you don't plan to start right away. If you can't start him right away, why are you drafting him this high? The biggest value of a drafted QB is that you get four or five years of cost-controlled play out of him. If you burn one or two years of that cost-controlled play sitting on the bench, you've eroded the value of that draft pick.

 

[cardpa]

I think the problem with the post-Warner situation was that you were depending on Leinart, or there was a mis-communication between the coaching staff and front office about Leinart's future outlook. I think that revealed something about a dysfunctional coaching staff and front office, more than a cyclical problem that teams experience.

Guys like Orton are always available. I don't need a crystal ball to see that someone of the like of Ryan Fitzpatrick, Ryan Mallett, Brian Hoyer, Drew Stanton, Sam Bradford, etc. will be available at the start of any particular offseason and can be acquired as a starter for $5M in guaranteed money that increases to $8-$12M with playing time incentives. Orton himself was available on the eve of the season last year.

It makes no sense to me to use a first- or second-round pick on a quarterback that you don't plan to start right away. If you can't start him right away, why are you drafting him this high? The biggest value of a drafted QB is that you get four or five years of cost-controlled play out of him. If you burn one or two years of that cost-controlled play sitting on the bench, you've eroded the value of that draft pick.

Well I agree you got the dysfunctional part right. I also agree you can always find the QBs you mention available almost all the time. The problem I see with that is will there always be one available that can fill the QB position the way you need them to so the offense you want to run can in fact be ran efficiently? Not all these guys are going to be good running a BA offense. I guess you are taking a gamble or will need to tinker with your offense so the guy you have at QB can operate it.

I get the eroded value thing and there is no doubt it's true, however if you take care of your cap situation and plan on needing to pay then you should be able to fit it in the constraints of the cap. I guess I would rather have the guy that fits my offense best than to fit someone into it. I would also like the luxury of knowing I have a guy that I can rely on for the next decade.

Previously you had mentioned that you could be a playoff contender with an Orton type QB because of your defense but at some point you may not have the ability to rely on your defense due to an assortment of events that can leave you with a average defense and a need to get more out of your offense.

Maybe 2016 isn't the year to get a new QB. I don't follow the NCAA that close to know what may be available in 2017.

 

[kerouac9]

Well I agree you got the dysfunctional part right. I also agree you can always find the QBs you mention available almost all the time. The problem I see with that is will there always be one available that can fill the QB position the way you need them to so the offense you want to run can in fact be ran efficiently? Not all these guys are going to be good running a BA offense. I guess you are taking a gamble or will need to tinker with your offense so the guy you have at QB can operate it.

I get the eroded value thing and there is no doubt it's true, however if you take care of your cap situation and plan on needing to pay then you should be able to fit it in the constraints of the cap. I guess I would rather have the guy that fits my offense best than to fit someone into it. I would also like the luxury of knowing I have a guy that I can rely on for the next decade.

Previously you had mentioned that you could be a playoff contender with an Orton type QB because of your defense but at some point you may not have the ability to rely on your defense due to an assortment of events that can leave you with a average defense and a need to get more out of your offense.

Maybe 2016 isn't the year to get a new QB. I don't follow the NCAA that close to know what may be available in 2017.

If the front office and coaching staff identifies a prospect that they think fits into their offense perfectly and can rely on for the next decade, I have little doubt that they'd draft that player. But I don't think they evaluate prospects that way, and prospects that are perfect fits rarely fall into the last dozen picks in the first round.

IMO, Ryan Mallett is a homeless-man's Carson Palmer.

 

[New Username]

I never claimed any of them as Franchise QBs. I said good QBs. QBs that can solidify the position. One step down from franchise. I like Hackenberg and Cook the best out of all of them. If Hackenberg who like CBus said has all the tools, can regain his Freshman form, then he will be the first QB off the board if he comes out.

It's amazing what a coach can mean to the development of a player. Hackenberg looked like a sure thing under O'Brian and then Franklin came along really set Hackenberg back. Hopefully this tear he regains what he seemingly lost last year.

Hackenberg has begun training with Jordan Palmer. JP did a lot to help both blake Bortles and Sean Mannion. He is also very high on Max Browne out of USC. Says he has all the skills to be a success in the NFL. He will be available in 2 years. He is a big arm pocket passer like Arians likes too.

 

[cardpa]

If the front office and coaching staff identifies a prospect that they think fits into their offense perfectly and can rely on for the next decade, I have little doubt that they'd draft that player. But I don't think they evaluate prospects that way, and prospects that are perfect fits rarely fall into the last dozen picks in the first round.

IMO, Ryan Mallett is a homeless-man's Carson Palmer.

Interesting, so by this you mean Mallet has a similar skillset as Palmer but hasn't found a home in the NFL yet or do you mean something different? By the way I have thoroughly enjoyed this back and forth with intelligent and meaningful conversation without any of the trash talk, etc. that seems to find it's way into so many threads. I respect your opinions and think you add a lot to the forum.

 

[cardpa]

Hackenberg has begun training with Jordan Palmer. JP did a lot to help both blake Bortles and Sean Mannion. He is also very high on Max Browne out of USC. Says he has all the skills to be a success in the NFL. He will be available in 2 years. He is a big arm pocket passer like Arians likes too.

Yes, I did read that somewhere but did not know he had worked with Bortles and Mannion before. Sounds like Browne is some one to keep an eye on.

 

[chickenhead]

Despite my concern for two years down the line--or sooner if Palmer isn't healthy--I'm still pretty glad we have CP in the meantime. Contending windows open and close pretty fast for most NFL franchises. And if the Cards are indeed going to be an organization that proves one of the exceptions, then they'll be able to weather this. I am hoping that options exceed Cutler and Mallet...

 

[kerouac9]

Interesting, so by this you mean Mallet has a similar skillset as Palmer but hasn't found a home in the NFL yet or do you mean something different? By the way I have thoroughly enjoyed this back and forth with intelligent and meaningful conversation without any of the trash talk, etc. that seems to find it's way into so many threads. I respect your opinions and think you add a lot to the forum.

I think that Mallett has the same categories of skills, but about 80% of the quality.

 

[cardpa]

I think that Mallett has the same categories of skills, but about 80% of the quality.

So you see Mallet as a viable option should he be available once Palmer is done? He would certainly be a lot cheaper than almost any other option. While we are on the subject of QBs I would like to hear your opinion on Thomas. I see him as a Jamarus Russell type QB, strong arm, can run, not too accurate and never being able to master the offense and run it efficiently. I can never see him as a viable option as a starter over an entire season.

 

[kerouac9]

So you see Mallet as a viable option should he be available once Palmer is done? He would certainly be a lot cheaper than almost any other option. While we are on the subject of QBs I would like to hear your opinion on Thomas. I see him as a Jamarus Russell type QB, strong arm, can run, not too accurate and never being able to master the offense and run it efficiently. I can never see him as a viable option as a starter over an entire season.

What does "viable" mean in the way you're using it? Can he not stand in the way of leading a Top 10 defense to the playoffs (Carson Palmer's role)? Yeah, probably. Can he lead a team to the Super Bowl? Erm, I dunno. But I'm not sure about that with Palmer, either. I think he can be better than a healthy Drew Stanton. Is that something?

Russell is in a class by himself as a guy who probably didn't love football very much when he was drafted. I don't think it's fair to make that comparison.

I think that the absolute ceiling of Thomas is Daunte Culpepper -- a guy who can facilitate an offense with overwhelming talent around him.

What's the likely comp for Thomas? Tim Tebow without the special leadership/intangibles.

 

[cardpa]

What does "viable" mean in the way you're using it? Can he not stand in the way of leading a Top 10 defense to the playoffs (Carson Palmer's role)? Yeah, probably. Can he lead a team to the Super Bowl? Erm, I dunno. But I'm not sure about that with Palmer, either. I think he can be better than a healthy Drew Stanton. Is that something?

Russell is in a class by himself as a guy who probably didn't love football very much when he was drafted. I don't think it's fair to make that comparison.

I think that the absolute ceiling of Thomas is Daunte Culpepper -- a guy who can facilitate an offense with overwhelming talent around him.

What's the likely comp for Thomas? Tim Tebow without the special leadership/intangibles.

Pretty much the way you described it, can lead a team to the playoffs with a strong defense and I agree he is probably better than Stanton.

I was thinking more of the physical skills in my comp to Russell. Russell was a piece of work who I think was only interested in the big payday. He was drafted before the slotting came into play as I remember. I think he could be a bit higher than Tebow as far as skills are concerned and as you said without the leadership. I like the Culpepper ceiling comp which I think is pretty spot on.

As far as Palmer is concerned, he can lead teams to winning seasons. His playoff acumen is a different story. He has never really been in a entire playoff game. The one in Cincy he was knocked out early so that was a big factor for them that year. I would like to see how he does in one and am hopeful it will be this year. I am kind of hoping he can pull a rabbit out of the hat and take the team on a deep run. I also think the team as a whole peaked too early (which includes the lucky breaks) and injuries sealed their fate. I will give Palmer this year to show that he belongs in that second tier of QBs.