The more I watch Shaq....

[Divide Et Impera]

Well, I hate to say I told you so. I was gone yesterday, so I didn't hear the game or know about any of its circumstances until about 5AM today when I looked at the box score on the Internet.

So, is there any question that Amare is sorry as hell and the longer we keep him, the less he has in trade value? Amare talked smack after scoring 31 points the other night (even though he grabbed only 5 rebs - good job, Amare Durant). He is a lightweight and if we are relying on him as #1, we will always be in trouble. The conundrum in that is that Amare REALLY THINKS he IS a #1, so a team would not be able to diminish that role to him.

He is a mental midget who needs coddling. He has no heart and no desire. It's mostly sad because he has AMAZING natural gifts.

So, I am well beyond the **** point with this guy. Either Scalabrine is NBA all-defensive 1st team (maybe all-time all-defensive!), or Amare is simply a weak suck. I'm convinced it's the latter....

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Everyone is complaining that Amare can't rebound, and you want to trade him for Nowitzki?? Pretty ridiculous, don't you think?

If you observe these things in a vacuum, then your point is accurate. However, if you look at impact and how roles fit, I don't think you have a case with that comparison. Dirk DOES rebound at least the same, if not a little bit better, as Amare. However, his greater impact would be in the free-flow of the offense and his likely compatibility with the remaining players.

Nash-Richardson-Hill-Nowitzki-O'Neal

That is a team that works. We gain nothing on defense (and we certainly lose nothing), but that is such a greater offensive mix of skill sets....

 

[Covert Rain]

If you observe these things in a vacuum, then your point is accurate. However, if you look at impact and how roles fit, I don't think you have a case with that comparison. Dirk DOES rebound at least the same, if not a little bit better, as Amare. However, his greater impact would be in the free-flow of the offense and his likely compatibility with the remaining players.

Nash-Richardson-Hill-Nowitzki-O'Neal

That is a team that works. We gain nothing on defense (and we certainly lose nothing), but that is such a greater offensive mix of skill sets....

Maybe if you were in a vacuum you would forget that when Dirk's jumper goes south he has no other part of his game that is redeaming whatsoever. Dirk has not been clutch in the playoffs either. Even though Amare is no back to the basket PF, he still plays around the rim. The last thing I want is a jump shooting PF on this team who sometimes rebounds.

That makes this team worse not better IMO. There are better scenarios out there then switching Amare for Dirk. No thanks.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Maybe if you were in a vacuum you would forget that when Dirk's jumper goes south he has no other part of his game that is redeaming whatsoever. Dirk has not been clutch in the playoffs either. Even though Amare is no back to the basket PF, he still plays around the rim. The last thing I want is a jump shooting PF on this team who sometimes rebounds.

That makes this team worse not better IMO. There are better scenarios out there then switching Amare for Dirk. No thanks.

#1, Dirk is not even beginning to show signs of slowing. Couple that with the fact that our 'window' is this year and next with Nash, Shaq and Hill, then your point is moot anyways.

#2, Dirk doesn't 'sometimes' rebound. He has been a consistent rebounder his whole career. He certainly ain't gonna go into the paint and rip a board out of 3 defenders' hands, but He gets to the spot and consistently grabs rebounds.

#3, if you consider Dirk a jump-shooting PF who sometimes rebounds, then in fairness I am certain that you must consider Amare a lazy ass PF who sometimes rebounds.

#4, let me also be clear that I have never wanted Dirk for this team until this current core of players came about. I would have accepted Nowitzki for Marion to give us Nash-Bell-Diaw-Nowitzki-Amare, but the lineup of Nash-Richardson-Hill-Nowitzki-O'Neal is at least equal defensively and is undoubtedly superior offensively to Nash-Richardson-Hill-Stoudemire-O'Neal.

Bottom line is that I know that Dirk brings a bit more to this team than Amare does and this is coming from a guy who hasn't ever been a Dirk fan and has considered him a colossal crybaby. This is more an indictment on Amare than an endorsement of Dirk. However, Dirk clearly would add more to this team anyways....

 

[Divide Et Impera]

PS - If you have 'better scenarios out there' then I am all ears....

 

[Covert Rain]

#1, Dirk is not even beginning to show signs of slowing. Couple that with the fact that our 'window' is this year and next with Nash, Shaq and Hill, then your point is moot anyways.

#2, Dirk doesn't 'sometimes' rebound. He has been a consistent rebounder his whole career. He certainly ain't gonna go into the paint and rip a board out of 3 defenders' hands, but He gets to the spot and consistently grabs rebounds.

#3, if you consider Dirk a jump-shooting PF who sometimes rebounds, then in fairness I am certain that you must consider Amare a lazy ass PF who sometimes rebounds.

#4, let me also be clear that I have never wanted Dirk for this team until this current core of players came about. I would have accepted Nowitzki for Marion to give us Nash-Bell-Diaw-Nowitzki-Amare, but the lineup of Nash-Richardson-Hill-Nowitzki-O'Neal is at least equal defensively and is undoubtedly superior offensively to Nash-Richardson-Hill-Stoudemire-O'Neal.

Bottom line is that I know that Dirk brings a bit more to this team than Amare does and this is coming from a guy who hasn't ever been a Dirk fan and has considered him a colossal crybaby. This is more an indictment on Amare than an endorsement of Dirk. However, Dirk clearly would add more to this team anyways....

#1 - The entire point is moot because you can't build a team around a jump shooting PF. Period.

#2 - I would rather have a PF who rebounds and plays defense then a PF who jump shoots and plays none. That doesn't say better to me.

#3 - I am not on the Amare is lazy bandwagon. I am on Amare lacks the mental fortitude to be a consistant player in this league. Amare's talent is not the issue. His basketball IQ is.

#4 - Disagree. All your doing is adding more jump shooting to your lineup with Dirk. That doesn't say better. Especially if Shaq is not having a good interior game, at least you can expect Amare to drive to the hoop and get to the FT line.

Bringing Dirk to the this team would be a push at best. All your doing is adding more jump shooting with less points in the paint. Not really improving rebounding or defense. That's not bringing more...that's bring something different. Sorry, give me points in the paint over jump shooting any day.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

#1 - You can't buiild your team around a lazy ass PF who's basketball IQ is a couple points lower than a box of rocks.

#2 - We don't have a PF who rebounds and plays D, so I don't get your point here. If you are saying that you would rather have, say, Garnett on this team than Amare, I agree, but I am considering all value in consideration for Dirk. Amare ain't gonna get you back much better than that.

#3 - Lazy, mental midget, whatever. He lacks intensity and focus and heart. If you want to attribute it to his mental smallness and I want to attribute it to laziness, the net result is identical - potAto, potAHto....

#4 - Amare doesn't attack the basket with any regularity. Besides, on their careers, Dirk has averaged nominally less FT attempts per game, yet he has averaged nominally more FT makes per game and that holds true this season.

You are right about it being a push, but only with respect to defense and rebounding. Offensively, Dirk is an upgrade, period.

 

[elindholm]

It's moot, because there's no way Dallas would do it.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Ultimately, you are probably right, but the debate is the same....

 

[Chaplin]

If there is one superstar out there whose defense is comparable to Amare Stoudemire, it's Dirk Nowitzki!

 

[Covert Rain]

If there is one superstar out there whose defense is comparable to Amare Stoudemire, it's Dirk Nowitzki!

Dirk also has a history of dissapering on offense (especially come playoff time). No offensive upgrade there unless you count Dirk having a better jump shot. Woohoo.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

I am definitely intrigued by a DirkSTAT mixup

It would completely clear the paint up for Shaq to do his thing and JRich would have to become our new marion who can slash to the basket in an instant.

And Dirk rebounds better and more consistently than Amare, and they are awash on defense.



But in all honesty I want to wake up tomorrow morning and read that Shaq and Stat have become blood brothers and are dedicating their lives to being the most dominant frontcourt duo on the planet.

There's no reason they can't be...

 

[mojorizen7]

Amare for Dirk doesn't excite me.
But this does.....

You must be registered for see images attach

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMdiRkiYREU

 

[DarlinG]

Seriously, who would be more effective PF, if we trade STAT? Don't say KG or TD, they are not tradable. Chris Bosh, neither.

Then who are in the market?

Elton Brand? 2 years ago, he was among the top, but not now.

David West? questionable, because I'm not sure what he can do without CP. and he's not a better rebounder than STAT.

Camby? He's a good defender, but he will not make the Suns to a good deffensive team.

Boozer? Can he defend in the Suns?

Al Jefferson? he's a beast in the post, but we already have Shaq.

Josh Howard? his rebound stat is even lower than STAT.

Kmart? ... no comment.

I don't think anyone in the list will be better for the Suns than STAT.

 

[nowagimp]

since the arrival of shaq it seems that alot of guys just dont fit now. Nash, Diaw, Amare,, who else, perhaps LB? I would be careful of blowing up the team for a 36 year old center, even if he is playing incredibly. Amare is less effective because he doesnt get the ball in the positions he used to. He works against a set defense almost all the time. In the past, Nash would give him the ball in great position, and amare also got out and ran. When amare is running, he will score more effectively as almost no transition defense can stop him. IMO, when porter reduced nashs role, he did the same with amare.

 

[elindholm]

Amare is less effective because he doesnt get the ball in the positions he used to. He works against a set defense almost all the time.

That's true, but

(a) even against a set defense, Stoudemire has been more effective in previous years, and

(b) a superstar needs to be able to score against a set defense.

 

[Mainstreet]

Seriously, who would be more effective PF, if we trade STAT? Don't say KG or TD, they are not tradable. Chris Bosh, neither.

Then who are in the market?

Elton Brand? 2 years ago, he was among the top, but not now.

David West? questionable, because I'm not sure what he can do without CP. and he's not a better rebounder than STAT.

Camby? He's a good defender, but he will not make the Suns to a good deffensive team.

Boozer? Can he defend in the Suns?

Al Jefferson? he's a beast in the post, but we already have Shaq.

Josh Howard? his rebound stat is even lower than STAT.

Kmart? ... no comment.

I don't think anyone in the list will be better for the Suns than STAT.

I don't think you can look at the situation of getting a STAT type player in return although Lee would probably do a nice job. If the Suns trade STAT, they should go for the most talent in return. Then maybe they do a second trade for at least a fill-in at PF.

 

[Covert Rain]

That's true, but

(a) even against a set defense, Stoudemire has been more effective in previous years, and

(b) a superstar needs to be able to score against a set defense.

Let's also not forget that Amare was the most vocal about not wanting to be a center. He wanted to play PF. So, now that we have a real Center, Amare got what he wanted.

Amare seriously needs to get in the gym and start developing his game around the rim (besides dunking). It can be done. Perfect example is a certain Lakers center who was horrible with his back to the basket and is now looking pretty good in there now.

I don't have any sympathy for a guy who asked for something, got it and is not struggling because of it.