The Nash Dilemma

[boisesuns]

I was thinking about the different sides of trading nash or not, and I think it's time to move him. I'd be interested in your takes on these questions and why:

1. Are we going to be better value now or later on?
2. Can we put some pieces around him for a run with an old PG (Like Kidd)?
3. Will be have a better record with Nash, or new players?
4. Would be be better to build for the future now, or when we have nash off the books?


My Thoughts:
1. Now or maybe this years trading deadline at the latest. Now means more draft picks as a possibility.
2. Not sure with the draft or other trades that we have enough to make the team significantly better
3.I think we would probably be a little worse, or about even. But missing the playoffs is still missing the playoffs. I'd rather rebuild now and get another decent pick next year.
4. Having the free agent money to spend would be good, but if I were a GM i'd get value from him NOW.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I was thinking about the different sides of trading nash or not, and I think it's time to move him. I'd be interested in your takes on these questions and why:

1. Are we going to be better value now or later on?
2. Can we put some pieces around him for a run with an old PG (Like Kidd)?
3. Will be have a better record with Nash, or new players?
4. Would be be better to build for the future now, or when we have nash off the books?


My Thoughts:
1. Now or maybe this years trading deadline at the latest. Now means more draft picks as a possibility.
2. Not sure with the draft or other trades that we have enough to make the team significantly better
3.I think we would probably be a little worse, or about even. But missing the playoffs is still missing the playoffs. I'd rather rebuild now and get another decent pick next year.
4. Having the free agent money to spend would be good, but if I were a GM i'd get value from him NOW.

Nash's value will not get higher. It will drop significantly from here. If we are going to trade Nash, now is the last window to do so.

His greatest value would be to a team like Miami. Get Lebron cutting and receiving rather than standing outside dishing in the 4th and they would be champs right now. But Miami has nothing really to offer unless its Bosh for a package that includes Nash and Warrick or Lopez and a pick or something.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think using logical arguments does not apply to Nash unless he asks to be traded which seems unlikely. As I recall I think Welts said it would be a business disaster to trade Nash. I disagree. I think the Suns fans are more locked into winning than liking a player. See Dan Majerle or Shawn Marion as examples.

 

[Folster]

I think using logical arguments does not apply to Nash unless he asks to be traded which seems unlikely. As I recall I think Welts said it would be a business disaster to trade Nash. I disagree. I think the Suns fans are more locked into winning than liking a player. See Dan Majerle or Shawn Marion as examples.

Exactly. We should probably trade him and start the rebuild, but it's simply not going to happen without him demanding it.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Exactly. We should probably trade him and start the rebuild, but it's simply not going to happen without him demanding it.

I think I've finally reached the point where I wouldn't trade him without him requesting it (or at least almost reached the point). For a few years now I've wanted to see us move him even if it wasn't his idea. He's been around long enough, he'd have understood it if management had come to him and told him they were going a different direction.

Now, however, I think we've reached the point where he has so little trade value that it just isn't worth it. Let him retire as part of the Phoenix franchise and give him a great sendoff when he's ready to call it quits. Better to take the goodwill and run rather than the 2nd round pick we'd probably receive.

AND, if (since?) we must keep him, can't we at least limit his minutes? Re-sign Brooks or find a real point guard and use Nash as a backup at both guard positions. Keep his minutes under 25 per game in addition to giving him the occasional day off. Do this, even if it puts any individual game at risk.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

I think I've finally reached the point where I wouldn't trade him without him requesting it (or at least almost reached the point). For a few years now I've wanted to see us move him even if it wasn't his idea. He's been around long enough, he'd have understood it if management had come to him and told him they were going a different direction.

Now, however, I think we've reached the point where he has so little trade value that it just isn't worth it. Let him retire as part of the Phoenix franchise and give him a great sendoff when he's ready to call it quits. Better to take the goodwill and run rather than the 2nd round pick we'd probably receive.

AND, if (since?) we must keep him, can't we at least limit his minutes? Re-sign Brooks or find a real point guard and use Nash as a backup at both guard positions. Keep his minutes under 25 per game in addition to giving him the occasional day off. Do this, even if it puts any individual game at risk.

Steve

I don't know the value of Nash but it's much, much more than a second round pick. I otherwise understand your thinking about keeping Nash. In many ways his career reminds me of John Stockton who retired with the Jazz.

 

[mojorizen7]

Ain't no dilemma. The Suns should by no means be structuring the roster around Nash anymore. Draftees should be drafted and FA's should be signed to better this team in a new direction....not to fit into a Nash-led roster. Thats ignorant at this point.

If they wont trade him fine....keep him here till he's good and ready to retire,but just cease with Nashball and move on please.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Ain't no dilemma. The Suns should by no means be structuring the roster around Nash anymore. Draftees should be drafted and FA's should be signed to better this team in a new direction....not to fit into a Nash-led roster. Thats ignorant at this point.

If they wont trade him fine....keep him here till he's good and ready to retire,but just cease with Nashball and move on please.

Amen.

Steve

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think I've finally reached the point where I wouldn't trade him without him requesting it (or at least almost reached the point). For a few years now I've wanted to see us move him even if it wasn't his idea. He's been around long enough, he'd have understood it if management had come to him and told him they were going a different direction.

Now, however, I think we've reached the point where he has so little trade value that it just isn't worth it. Let him retire as part of the Phoenix franchise and give him a great sendoff when he's ready to call it quits.

and what if he wants a two year contract after next year is over since he's already said he wants to continue playing? Do you STILL abide by the above, pay him sucking up a decent amount of salary cap room which will make it pretty much impossible to get better younger players which this team desperately needs to get out of NBA purgatory... not good enough to even make the playoffs and not bad enough to get a shot at the best 3 players coming out of college.

Just letting him play out the string means we're literally just wasting a year and resigning him to a contract extension means we're going to stay like this for the foreseeable future. neither option makes ANY sense whatsoever. Fans don't come to the games because of Nash, they come to the games because the team won. Attendance fell off last year even with Nash on the floor and it will continue to with him on the floor. The Sarver Suns have lived a charmed life so far and think those fans have been here all this time because of Nash, which any Phoenician knows is ********. Phoenix fans are fickle... as a franchise, you win or you die, no matter who's on the court.

 

[JCSunsfan]

and what if he wants a two year contract after next year is over since he's already said he wants to continue playing? Do you STILL abide by the above, pay him sucking up a decent amount of salary cap room which will make it pretty much impossible to get better younger players which this team desperately needs to get out of NBA purgatory... not good enough to even make the playoffs and not bad enough to get a shot at the best 3 players coming out of college.
.

I don't think he was saying that we use up an inordinate amount of cap to resign Nash. If he wants $10 mill a year for his last two years, he is going to have to get that elsewhere. There is no way Sarver is going to give that to him, and he shouldn't. I can imagine that Nash finishes his career with a string of one year contracts, kind of like Jordan did, but for alot less money.

 

[AzStevenCal]

and what if he wants a two year contract after next year is over since he's already said he wants to continue playing? Do you STILL abide by the above, pay him sucking up a decent amount of salary cap room which will make it pretty much impossible to get better younger players which this team desperately needs to get out of NBA purgatory... not good enough to even make the playoffs and not bad enough to get a shot at the best 3 players coming out of college.

Just letting him play out the string means we're literally just wasting a year and resigning him to a contract extension means we're going to stay like this for the foreseeable future. neither option makes ANY sense whatsoever. Fans don't come to the games because of Nash, they come to the games because the team won. Attendance fell off last year even with Nash on the floor and it will continue to with him on the floor. The Sarver Suns have lived a charmed life so far and think those fans have been here all this time because of Nash, which any Phoenician knows is ********. Phoenix fans are fickle... as a franchise, you win or you die, no matter who's on the court.

I think we've dug ourselves a hole. As I've said repeatedly, we should have traded Nash some time ago. If he really wants to play 3 more seasons then no, I wouldn't suggest keeping him. Actually, I really would like to see us move him in any case, I just think that if his value really has dropped to the 2nd round level that we're better off keeping him than trading him.

I don't want him figuring into our future plans in any way. I don't want the team built around him and I don't want to see us depend on him every game. But, the Goodwill gained by keeping him for this season has greater value than a 2nd round pick IMO. I absolutely wouldn't turn down any reasonable offer that had Steve's blessing though (uhmm, that Steve, not this Steve).

Let's face it, we're screwed royally whatever we do (barring some incredible luck) so how about not pissing off the state of Canada while we're at it. It's bad enough that they actually consider themselves a country and they're going to hate us even more when we finally wake up and realize that Canola Oil is a killer so why mistreat their Favorite Son when it does us virtually no good?

Steve

 

[dodie53]

resign for the vet min. then yes,
other than that, trade him.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think we've dug ourselves a hole. As I've said repeatedly, we should have traded Nash some time ago. If he really wants to play 3 more seasons then no, I wouldn't suggest keeping him. Actually, I really would like to see us move him in any case, I just think that if his value really has dropped to the 2nd round level that we're better off keeping him than trading him.

I don't want him figuring into our future plans in any way. I don't want the team built around him and I don't want to see us depend on him every game. But, the Goodwill gained by keeping him for this season has greater value than a 2nd round pick IMO. I absolutely wouldn't turn down any reasonable offer that had Steve's blessing though (uhmm, that Steve, not this Steve).

Let's face it, we're screwed royally whatever we do (barring some incredible luck) so how about not @#!*% off the state of Canada while we're at it. It's bad enough that they actually consider themselves a country and they're going to hate us even more when we finally wake up and realize that Canola Oil is a killer so why mistreat their Favorite Son when it does us virtually no good?

Steve

What? That post seemed like it was going fine and then the Vicodin kicked in just before the last paragraph.

 

[AzStevenCal]

What? That post seemed like it was going fine and then the Vicodin kicked in just before the last paragraph.

The smiley face was implied. But, now that you mention it, are you one of those wacko extremists that really believe the "Canada is a sovereign nation" stuff? BTW, Vicodin bad, Canola Oil worse (maybe???). Switch to something that doesn't contain Acetaminophen and replace your Canola Oil with Olive or Coconut. And fortunately for me, I have no idea how to spell off-topic.

Steve

 

[Irish]

I agree with those who see this debate as pointess since nobody is giving the Suns anything of serious value for him. He is not worth that much to really good teams and in an era where defense is king, why do people keep fantising about getting a first round pick for him?

Remind me, how many deals have been made giving up a first round pick just for an expiring contract that did not involve unloading a bad contract?

I think Nash would prefer to stay here than move to place where his skills would not be used and his defencive deficiencies are magnified. At the same time, it is better to work on getting ANOTHER point guard first and groom him for when Nash has to leave.

 

[BC867]

AND, if (since?) we must keep him, can't we at least limit his minutes? Re-sign Brooks or find a real point guard and use Nash as a backup at both guard positions. Keep his minutes under 25 per game in addition to giving him the occasional day off.

The problem there is that Steve playing the Point in a generic system would detract from his game and hurt the team.

And, as we've seen, any other Point Guard trying to play Steve's system while he is still here just hasn't worked. Which is why he has worn down after the all-star break.

Steve staying as our 2-Guard would hurt us with size and defense. Just as when fan favorite Jeff Hornacek started at that position before being traded. We loved them, but it made us weak.

Hmmm, Dallas won it all with a small starting Shooting Guard, leaving us and the Jazz as forever the bridesmaids. But the Mavs not only went strong at Center, they had Dirk.

Just as the Bulls could afford to go small with a pure shooter at the "2" because they had Michael.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Just keeping up with rumors out there.


There have been renewed whispers the Knicks have inquired about Suns point guard Steve Nash, who lives in SoHo in the offseason. The Knicks have talked internally about trading Chauncey Billups for Nash as both have expiring contracts. But there does not appear any reason for Suns owner Robert Sarver to make a move and give Mike D'Antoni a chance to reunite with his favorite son.[email protected]



Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knic...f_knicks_fQW4QY0ufdry7UDIr4GG4O#ixzz1Pvw4hIVk

I don't see why we would trade Nash to NY, just out of the goodness of our hearts. Billips doesn't upgrade us now or for the future. Billups and the #17 pick might get me slightly interested.

 

[Covert Rain]

Just keeping up with rumors out there.


There have been renewed whispers the Knicks have inquired about Suns point guard Steve Nash, who lives in SoHo in the offseason. The Knicks have talked internally about trading Chauncey Billups for Nash as both have expiring contracts. But there does not appear any reason for Suns owner Robert Sarver to make a move and give Mike D'Antoni a chance to reunite with his favorite son.[email protected]



Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knic...f_knicks_fQW4QY0ufdry7UDIr4GG4O#ixzz1Pvw4hIVk

I don't see why we would trade Nash to NY, just out of the goodness of our hearts. Billips doesn't upgrade us now or for the future. Billups and the #17 pick might get me slightly interested.

Maybe because he is the better defensive player by far?? I mean Billups would be a huge upgrade defensively. He has one of the best defensive PERs against opposing PG's in the NBA.

My problem would be that the assists take a big hit which means others are going to have to create and I am not sure our roster is built that way. If we had a really good post up player on this team, I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger on this trade.

The Suns say they want a better defensive team. I think the general feelings from the fans are the same. This is a no brainer from a defensive perspective IMO. It's the rest of this roster that scares me offensively.

 

[Absolute Zero]

Meanwhile, Nash was having a "global chat" of a press conference in advance of his charity soccer game in New York Wednesday when he received a question about whether he would want to play for Toronto.


"This is a tough question for me," Nash said. "When you're in a situation (where) you've given a lot of you career to one franchise, you feel at home there. I feel a loyalty to my team, our community in Phoenix.


"I want us to try to get back and try to compete for a championship like we did two seasons ago so that's kind of all I think about. So I don't plan on leaving but obviously if the opportunity were ever there, where Phoenix were rebuilding or whatever happens, Toronto would be an amazing place to play.

"It's a great city. It'd be at home in Canada. To be a part of their, hopefully, future success would be great but I don't really have any plans other than try to get our team back in the playoffs and contend for a championship."

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...commitment-staying-phoenix.html#ixzz1Q2uyP9It
​

 

[JCSunsfan]

Its time to trade nash. We are not going to win a championship with him. For those that say trading him to minny would be cruel consider that minny with nash next year is a better team than the suns with nash as now constructed.

 

[elindholm]

For what it's worth, Bill Simmons's latest "Grantland" article suggests Nash, Dudley, and Childress to the Spurs for Parker and Jefferson. (No, this isn't an "official rumor"; it's just Simmons making up trades for fun.)

 

[82CardsGrad]

For what it's worth, Bill Simmons's latest "Grantland" article suggests Nash, Dudley, and Childress to the Spurs for Parker and Jefferson. (No, this isn't an "official rumor"; it's just Simmons making up trades for fun.)

Love that site!

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Either trade Nash, or trade for the necessary components to make the team interesting. I can't stand the idea of going with the same squad plus a draft pick to wallow in mediocrity (at best) and fight for a 7-8 seed.

That's just pathetic.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Is Bill Simmons trying to find ways to help the Spurs? We get NOTHING in that deal. Parker has 4 years on his deal and Jefferson has 3 years.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Perspective:

Childress at $6.5m for 4 years = $26m

Jefferson at $8.4m for 3 years = $25.2m