The NBA is rigged

[AzStevenCal]

I doubt anyone thinks every time we lose is happens to be on the refs. I just do believe that scott foster speficially calls bad games for us and puts us at a disadvantage which impacts the rest of the game as well. Even that is not "we lost because of scott foster" it is scott foster puts us at a competitive disadvantage AND we lost

Although it was a generalization read the game day threads for the last two series and get back to me on that.

 

[BigRedRage]

Although it was a generalization read the game day threads for the last two series and get back to me on that.

game day threads will always be full of hyperbole and overreaction. That's like judging someones emotions during a gunfight.

 

[Mainstreet]

All I have to say is twelve (12).

 

[AzStevenCal]

game day threads will always be full of hyperbole and overreaction. That's like judging someones emotions during a gunfight.

A reaction here or there is understandable, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about posters frequently doing things such as pointing to specific plays and saying, "see, it's clearly rigged".

I've been on the internet since long before Al Gore invented it and I'm used to what happens in game day threads. I am NOT used to what's happening in our game day threads right now.

 

[Mainstreet]

game day threads will always be full of hyperbole and overreaction. That's like judging someones emotions during a gunfight.

Or during or immediately after a game.

 

[BigRedRage]

suns in 5 although I prefer suns in 6 or 7 so I can be downtown when it happens. If we win in 5, I will be in showlow.

 

[Hoop Head]

A reaction here or there is understandable, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about posters frequently doing things such as pointing to specific plays and saying, "see, it's clearly rigged".

I've been on the internet since long before Al Gore invented it and I'm used to what happens in game day threads. I am NOT used to what's happening in our game day threads right now.

Its gotten bad. I've complained about officiating and I'm sure you have too but there are some who seem to be watching different games when certain calls are made, or not made. It doesn't seem to matter if we're up 15 or down 15 either. Those who are riding the conspiracy wave are all in. We win in spite of the refs and when we lose its because we couldn't overcome the refs, not our opponents or our poor play.

I know its been a while since we've been in the playoffs but I don't recall the " rigged" stuff ever being as bad as it currently is, even with us farther than we've ever been.

 

[AzStevenCal]

suns in 5 although I prefer suns in 6 or 7 so I can be downtown when it happens. If we win in 5, I will be in showlow.

You're not concerned that Foster is officiating our next game? Personally, I think it's in our heads (the team). It's tough to win if you suspect the referees won't allow it to happen. Sometimes we make our own fate.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I know its been a while since we've been in the playoffs but I don't recall the " rigged" stuff ever being as bad as it currently is, even with us farther than we've ever been.

Yeah I've never seen it like this. I don't post much in game day threads anymore because of the over the top reactions (worst game ever, worst player ever, worst call ever etc.) but it's so bad there now that I can barely lurk. I tend to ignore the thread and then play catch-up a couple of times per game during commercial breaks but even that's a challenge.

 

[AZ Shocker]

Ayton was playing like David Robinson, but was glued to the bench because of 2 garbage foul calls.

Exactly. 2 garbage fouls glued him to the bench right when the game was pretty even. I'd think differently if the garbage fouls were legit fouls...but not when they're garbage cheap fouls on a player playing really well. That's why some people believe the NBA is rigged in order to get more games in a series.

 

[Bufalay]

I have no issue with people thinking there is referee bias because clearly there is. But this nonsense (and it IS nonsense) that any time we lose it must be due to some vast conspiracy does none of us any good. Officials make bad calls and miss obvious calls, every referee does it every single game - without fail. It doesn't mean the game is rigged.

Some referees take issue with the way certain players play the game and they watch for certain actions which can lead to poor results for the team that person plays on. And that's not even bias, it's decision making influenced by experience. But yes, on top of that, there is real bias in the game. And sometimes it impacts the final outcome. But the vast majority of time, IMO, it's neither agenda based nor consequential.

Years ago I'd just smile when I heard the latest conspiracy theory, I always considered them and the purveyors of such as harmless. The last few years have forced many of us to stare into the inescapable truth that conspiracy theories, all of them, are harmful, sometimes to the extreme.

I am providing you unimpeachable statistical evidence that your favorite sports team is vastly superior to all competitors and there is a wide-reaching conspiracy to thwart them!

Anyway, I like to restrict such magical thinking to my sports fandom and reserve my objectivity for more consequential topics and decisions.

I'd rather blame the refs than criticize my favorite players.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

A reaction here or there is understandable, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about posters frequently doing things such as pointing to specific plays and saying, "see, it's clearly rigged".

I've been on the internet since long before Al Gore invented it and I'm used to what happens in game day threads. I am NOT used to what's happening in our game day threads right now.

I think your vision is skewed by the volume (# not loudness) of dback Jon posts on that. Otherwise groaning seems similar to gameday threads I’ve seen in all hoops games since time immemorial.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Its gotten bad. I've complained about officiating and I'm sure you have too but there are some who seem to be watching different games when certain calls are made, or not made. It doesn't seem to matter if we're up 15 or down 15 either. Those who are riding the conspiracy wave are all in. We win in spite of the refs and when we lose its because we couldn't overcome the refs, not our opponents or our poor play.

I know its been a while since we've been in the playoffs but I don't recall the " rigged" stuff ever being as bad as it currently is, even with us farther than we've ever been.

Then you’re clearly forgetting the nash years. Everything was about stern rigging things for his beloved Spurs.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I am providing you unimpeachable statistical evidence that your favorite sports team is vastly superior to all competitors and there is a wide-reaching conspiracy to thwart them!

Anyway, I like to restrict such magical thinking to my sports fandom and reserve my objectivity for more consequential topics and decisions.

I'd rather blame the refs than criticize my favorite players.

Actually, you're not. Can you prove that Scott made all the calls that tipped the scales? Can you explain why we've had similar calls made against us by other referees?

In the last 10 playoff games of Paul that Foster has officiated, CP's team has been awarded almost the same number of free throws. And the referees know that every team is going to hack Giannis so it should come as no surprise to anyone that they see fouls there that might not be that egregious.

Also, have you considered the possibility that Paul's continued focus on Foster has created the situation where he and his teammates are influencing the statistical anomaly you're referring to? It they believe Foster is out to get them, do you really think they are playing with positive emotion when he's on the court?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Then you’re clearly forgetting the nash years. Everything was about stern rigging things for his beloved Spurs.

Not every game day thread. Sure, it was talked about a lot but it was mostly talked about as a one time event.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Actually, you're not. Can you prove that Scott made all the calls that tipped the scales? Can you explain why we've had similar calls made against us by other referees?

In the last 10 playoff games of Paul that Foster has officiated, CP's team has been awarded almost the same number of free throws. And the referees know that every team is going to hack Giannis so it should come as no surprise to anyone that they see fouls there that might not be that egregious.

Also, have you considered the possibility that Paul's continued focus on Foster has created the situation where he and his teammates are influencing the statistical anomaly you're referring to? It they believe Foster is out to get them, do you really think they are playing with positive emotion when he's on the court?

While what you say about Paul and teammates could certainly be true (and I’m sure plays some role), and I don’t fully buy into any conspiracy theory - surely you’re smart enough to know that equal fouls is an awful comparison to prove your point.

shooting fouls verse on the floor
Who the fouls are on
When the fouls are called (for instance it’s easy to even out foul calls to appear more even handed once a team has attained a 20 pt lead and there’s little time left in a game)
Calling foul to stop a run
Non-foul impacts like jump balls, travels, technicals, etc

Im not saying all that occurred, I’m saying even fouls is a faulty argument at its core b

 

[Cheesebeef]

Actually, you're not. Can you prove that Scott made all the calls that tipped the scales? Can you explain why we've had similar calls made against us by other referees?

In the last 10 playoff games of Paul that Foster has officiated, CP's team has been awarded almost the same number of free throws. And the referees know that every team is going to hack Giannis so it should come as no surprise to anyone that they see fouls there that might not be that egregious.

Also, have you considered the possibility that Paul's continued focus on Foster has created the situation where he and his teammates are influencing the statistical anomaly you're referring to? It they believe Foster is out to get them, do you really think they are playing with positive emotion when he's on the court?

After Paul was quoted as saying he’ll be 0-12 when he found out Foster was reffing the Finals my first thought was “great to have that self-fullfilling prophecy in your head before the game even starts.”

 

[ozzfloyd]

Not every game day thread. Sure, it was talked about a lot but it was mostly talked about as a one time event.

No. It was pervasive that whole playoffs, and beyond.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not every game day thread. Sure, it was talked about a lot but it was mostly talked about as a one time event.

You’re misremembering. It was every time we played the Spurs. Not even just a certain year or the playoffs. And before that it was the league wants LA.

 

[Hoop Head]

Then you’re clearly forgetting the nash years. Everything was about stern rigging things for his beloved Spurs.

I remember the Nash years but they weren't that bad outside of the Spurs series. Plus it was painfully obvious why we'd fall short, no defense, 7 man rotations, running starters into the ground. There were things that didn't look right but ultimately the refs weren't the ones who cost us and weren't the go to reason for losses like they've been this postseason.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You’re misremembering. It was every time we played the Spurs. Ot rven just a certain year or the playoffs. And before that it was the league wants LA.

and the Lakers.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And I’m willing to bet it’s not even just a suns thing. I’ll bet Utah fans said clips series was rigged and that bucks fans thought nets series was rigged.

 

[AzStevenCal]

While what you say about Paul and teammates could certainly be true (and I’m sure plays some role), and I don’t fully buy into any conspiracy theory - surely you’re smart enough to know that equal fouls is an awful comparison to prove your point.

shooting fouls verse on the floor
Who the fouls are on
When the fouls are called (for instance it’s easy to even out foul calls to appear more even handed once a team has attained a 20 pt lead and there’s little time left in a game)
Calling foul to stop a run
Non-foul impacts like jump balls, travels, technicals, etc

Im not saying all that occurred, I’m saying even fouls is a faulty argument at its core b

Of course. And I've wondered, thought, blamed etc. that a referee was out to get us more than a few times myself. All they have to do is whistle Ayton for a couple quick fouls and he's a different player. The same thing was true for Amare early in his career. Or you could do what Steve Jaffe and a few other refs used to do, ignore when Billups or another physical guard would defend Nash driving the lane by swiping hard down on his forearm.

It became so common Steve ended up being a liability in closing minutes depending on the referee. I'm just not convinced, then or now, that there is an anti-Suns conspiracy nor do I believe the refs have been instructed to prolong playoff series.

 

[Covert Rain]

All I have to say is twelve (12).

This. I still don't think the NBA is rigged. However, I do think there are refs who put themselves above the game. They want to be as noticed as the players playing the game. Scott Foster is one of those refs. I also think it's obvious he has a personal grudge against any TEAM that Paul plays on and putting those two things together isn't a good thing.

You have to be pretty oblivious to think that 0-12 is pure coincidence. I have worked with metrics/stats my entire career. 1 to 3 is a coincidence. 4-6 is concerning. 6-9 is eyebrow raising. 10+ is a trend.

I blame the NBA for pure incompetence or turning a blind eye more than I blame Scott Foster. If you are the NBA why put yourself in a position for this kind of conjecture with that kind of stat (win/loss result)?!?

 

[AzStevenCal]

No. It was pervasive that whole playoffs, and beyond.

I remember it well. But it still isn't like what we're seeing now. Then, it was pretty much one thing and from that one thing an entire conspiracy arose. But it didn't come up every game or every series. Since the Lakers series it seems like every time something goes wrong, one of our posters blames it on the refs.