The New Corners

Stout

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Yeah the "sky is falling, our CBS are terrible" crowd aren't backed by actual metrics. That's their feelings, but the facts support the opposite.

Mullen's career stats are better than any other CB on the roster. He's not a scrub.

#1, back to cheap rhetoric I see.

#2, tell me again how we were supposed to find gold amidst the garbage that is late preseason cuts? You still haven't answered for that after accusing people of being chicken littles and arrogantly telling posters to react during FA.
 

Stout

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If we are going off of, you know, actual evidence from last season, this cornerback room looks to be a lot more sufficient than how you are assessing it.

FO metrics had the Cardinals as the 6th best coverage unit in the league. What a lot of people AREN'T factoring is how good the safety play has been with Baker and Jalen Thompson.

Trayvon Mullins, based on actual objective data, is better than any CB the Cardinals had last year.
Spinning the same yarn as last year, I see. This room is fine, you say? Last year's was fine, you say? How were they down the stretch when the rookie crumbled and the oft-injured vet got injured? The answer is they were toast.

We neglected the position in FA and are trying to band aid it again this year, when we see what happened when the paint wore off last season. Way to not learn your lessons, Keim!
 

Stout

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It was sort of tongue in cheek, but I’m afraid things will be bleak. I’m not sure I have the reputation you are crediting me with having.
C'mon, sunshine brigade? Why aren't you attacking Harry for the exact same opinion I have? Don't you supposedly have facts on your side? smh
 

Krangodnzr

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#1, back to cheap rhetoric I see.
Call as I see it.
#2, tell me again how we were supposed to find gold amidst the garbage that is late preseason cuts? You still haven't answered for that after accusing people of being chicken littles and arrogantly telling posters to react during FA.
Hmmm....Trayvon Mullen who has three seasons of average to above average CB play for a pittance.
 

Stout

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Call as I see it.

Hmmm....Trayvon Mullen who has three seasons of average to above average CB play for a pittance.
Jerk colored glasses, eh? :D

I like the trade. We desperately needed CB help. He can help as a low-end starter, sure, maybe high-end depth. Problem is, we also have Murphy and a whole lot of question marks and regression beyond that on the roster. We still need a quality starter.
 

Krangodnzr

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C'mon, sunshine brigade? Why aren't you attacking Harry for the exact same opinion I have? Don't you supposedly have facts on your side? smh
An opinion based on nothing is garbage.

I'll tell you what my opinion is based on:
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Objective facts.
 

Krangodnzr

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Jerk colored glasses, eh? :D

I like the trade. We desperately needed CB help. He can help as a low-end starter, sure, maybe high-end depth.
This statement is based on what? Mullen was an average to above average starter....based on facts.
Problem is, we also have Murphy and a whole lot of question marks and regression beyond that on the roster. We still need a quality starter.
Murphy is a good starter.
 

Stout

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This statement is based on what? Mullen was an average to above average starter....based on facts.

Murphy is a good starter.
So you're being argumentative while agreeing with me? I agree Mullen is going to be a starter for us. I agree Murphy is a good starter. It's just...we don't have another starting-quality CB (you need 3) and the depth is really bad. Hamilton's MIA and is at best a 4, and Wilson may not even be worth a roster spot unless he bounces back in a big way. I hope he does, but Keim hasn't left us any leeway there.
 

Krangodnzr

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So you're being argumentative while agreeing with me? I agree Mullen is going to be a starter for us. I agree Murphy is a good starter. It's just...we don't have another starting-quality CB (you need 3) and the depth is really bad. Hamilton's MIA and is at best a 4, and Wilson may not even be worth a roster spot unless he bounces back in a big way. I hope he does, but Keim hasn't left us any leeway there.
I'm arguing a results based approach. The Cardinals had the 6th ranked pass defense based on DVOA. So your hemming and hawing over an almost top 5 group is kind of....laughable and misplaced.

Do you think Alford is better than Mullen? I don't.
 

Stout

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I'm arguing a results based approach. The Cardinals had the 6th ranked pass defense based on DVOA. So your hemming and hawing over an almost top 5 group is kind of....laughable and misplaced.

Do you think Alford is better than Mullen? I don't.
I don't either, which is why I liked the trade.

The problem with your stats is that those numbers are all averages. The unit vastly overperformed early in the season, which skews the numbers from when they sucked down the stretch.

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
 

Krangodnzr

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I don't either, which is why I liked the trade.

The problem with your stats is that those numbers are all averages. The unit vastly overperformed early in the season, which skews the numbers from when they sucked down the stretch.

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Corners just don't matter as much to the Vance Joseph defense it seems. That's why it might actually be real dumb to throw money at Byron Murphy when he invariably gets offered a big contract next offseason.

I can understand worrying about the pass rush more or run defense.
 

Proximo

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Spinning the same yarn as last year, I see. This room is fine, you say? Last year's was fine, you say? How were they down the stretch when the rookie crumbled and the oft-injured vet got injured? The answer is they were toast.

We neglected the position in FA and are trying to band aid it again this year, when we see what happened when the paint wore off last season. Way to not learn your lessons, Keim!
In fairness Jeff Gladney who was killed was suppossed to be a starter, so they did make one move.
 

BritCard

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I don't either, which is why I liked the trade.

The problem with your stats is that those numbers are all averages. The unit vastly overperformed early in the season, which skews the numbers from when they sucked down the stretch.

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Marco Wilson is going to be fine. He's certainly not going to be worse.
 

Krangodnzr

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Marco Wilson is going to be fine. He's certainly not going to be worse.
I HOPE so. He might be the weaklink all year though. I was happy that we had Hamilton so that he wouldn't have to play if he struggled. Once the Cardinals traded for Mullen, I thought that Mullen, Murphy, and Hamilton is a solid group, but damn...
 
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juza76

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He was worse. He started good and badly regressed. If you mean he won't be worse than at the end of the season, well, he needs to be worlds better, not simply "not worse."
Yes regressed, his performances reached the bottom, every pass in his area were completed passes
Difficult doing any worse
 

Proximo

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This is true. At the time, we still needed more help. After his horrible death, Keim had tons of time to plug the extra hole, and refused.
By the time he died no good free agents were still on the market, and teams do not normally give up starting level corners unless they have extras - which they rarely do.

So while I am frustrated, I somewhat understand how we got here.
 

speedy

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Harry, congratulations for putting your reputation on the line, with the statement that Arizona might go through an entire season with ZERO CB INTS. Time will tell.
I put my reputation on the line here just about every time I post. Just a few people listen to me and I have only been banned twice.
 

BritCard

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He was worse. He started good and badly regressed. If you mean he won't be worse than at the end of the season, well, he needs to be worlds better, not simply "not worse."

Weird how he regressed at exactly the same time as the whole team regressed. Almost as if the whole team playing worse effected the rookie's performance...
 

Stout

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Weird how he regressed at exactly the same time as the whole team regressed. Almost as if the whole team playing worse effected the rookie's performance...
Right. So, like, nothing was his fault and he in fact isn't a concern moving forward? Weird how every single negative stance is a hill for you to die on.

Wilson is a big ? Maybe he can improve, or maybe he stays where he was to end the season. Keim is betting a lot on him. We'll see if the bet comes good.
 
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