The new master of package deals at it again?

[Russ Smith]

Believe me, UCLA isnt going to accept a guy like Sidney. Let me rephrase that. Ben Howland isnt going to accept Sidney. Also, he does not have an offer from UCLA and I seriously doubt he receives one anytime soon.

Most major programs are going to keep away from Sidney, just as they did OJ Mayo.

Try telling that to USC fans. I had one guy swear to me that Mayo had offers from SC, K State, Florida, Cincy, Indiana and Kentucky. I showed him where that came from, a quote from Mayo as a SOPHOMORE saying who HE was interested in. Then again a few weeks before signing with SC he gave his list and said "several of them don't even know they're on my list yet."

To this day the guy swears all those schools offered Mayo.

I think people are scared of Sidney's dad more than anything, just like with Mayo a lot of people simply aren't sure Sidney is really an amateur, or will be by the time he's a senior in HS.

I'm on premium BRO right now (1 month trial) and there's a guy on there who swears that mayo tried to contact UCLA prior to USC but HOwland refused to talk to Rodney Guillory and when Mayo tried to call he was told politely no thank you. So he then called up USC. Again no idea if it's true, but if it is, I feel even happier that Ben howland is the UCLA coach.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Anybody can VERBALLY commit to any school that they want. Verbal commitments mean squat. That is how players like Nick Wise and Taylor King commit so early in their high school careers. They simply say "yea, I'm planning on attending Grand Canyon University".

Letters of intent are what binds players to schools. Players can't sign LOIs until they have a scholarship offer. But players can verbally commit and change their minds as often as they want until they sign an LOI.

BTW, since you say that there are plenty of sophomores with scholarship offers, can you fill me in on who those sophomores are?

You are missing the point. A player has to be offerend in order to give a verbal. If not I could just say, I verballed to Arizona yesterday, but they havent offered me a scholarship.

Players cant sign a letter of intent until national signing day. I know that a player can not sign a LOI and change his pledge.

Here is a list of just the 2009 PGs that have been offered a scholarship:

Joesph Bertrand
Josh Freelove
Abdul Gaddy
Tavarres Jefferson
Elijah Johnson
Tommy Mason-Griffin
GJ Vilarino

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Now in this thread, you state that Howland isn't going to accept Sidney and that most programs are going to keep away from Sidney.

But in another thread, you concede that Howland probably attended Sidney's hs games to watch him.

So if Howland isn't going to accept Sidney, why would he even bother watch a kid that he has no intention of accepting??? Also, why isn't a major program like UCLA staying away from Sidney??

Yes, Howland will attend Sindey's games not only to watch him but to watch other recruits. Every coach is going to take his time evaluating a player and they are going to view games of players that they might not even take. I am sure howland is intrested in Sidney, but the chances of him offering a scholarship now or in the future isnt very bright.

Programs still rectuit players even though they have no shot or might not even take them. Right now Arizona is actively recruting Matt Simpkins, who has a lot of talent, but the coaches arent accepting a commitment because they want to evaluate other aspects of Simpkins besides his basketball talent. Howland is doing the exact same thing.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

I'm on premium BRO right now (1 month trial) and there's a guy on there who swears that mayo tried to contact UCLA prior to USC but HOwland refused to talk to Rodney Guillory and when Mayo tried to call he was told politely no thank you. So he then called up USC. Again no idea if it's true, but if it is, I feel even happier that Ben howland is the UCLA coach.

I wouldnt doubt that story one bit. There is a reason Mayo isnt attending UCONN, Arizona, UCLA, Duke, ect... There is also a reason those schools did not even bother to actively recruit/offer him.

 

[Russ Smith]

Yes, Howland will attend Sindey's games not only to watch him but to watch other recruits. Every coach is going to take his time evaluating a player and they are going to view games of players that they might not even take. I am sure howland is intrested in Sidney, but the chances of him offering a scholarship now or in the future isnt very bright.

Programs still rectuit players even though they have no shot or might not even take them. Right now Arizona is actively recruting Matt Simpkins, who has a lot of talent, but the coaches arent accepting a commitment because they want to evaluate other aspects of Simpkins besides his basketball talent. Howland is doing the exact same thing.

Simpkins is Sacramento right? he's the kid that reclassified down a grade last year IIRC.

 

[bko32]

You are missing the point. A player has to be offerend in order to give a verbal. If not I could just say, I verballed to Arizona yesterday, but they havent offered me a scholarship.

Players cant sign a letter of intent until national signing day. I know that a player can not sign a LOI and change his pledge.

Here is a list of just the 2009 PGs that have been offered a scholarship:

Joesph Bertrand
Josh Freelove
Abdul Gaddy
Tavarres Jefferson
Elijah Johnson
Tommy Mason-Griffin
GJ Vilarino

A player can verbal anytime, anywhere, to any school. It doesn't matter if he has a scholarship offer or not. Why? Because a verbal commitment means NOTHING, NADA, SQUAT.

BTW, congratulations on your verbal commitment to UofA.

I am going to make my verbal committment to UCLA tomorrow

I'll look into the scholarships a little more, but how can a school officially offer a scholarship to a player in their freshman or sophomore year when they can't receive any type of direct contact either by mail or face-to-face?

 

[bko32]

The following is an excerpt from the NCAA Division I Manual:
13.4.1 Recruiting Materials

In sports other than men's basketball, a member institution may not provide recruiting materials to a prospective student-athlete (including general correspondence related to athletics) until September 1 at the beginning of the prospective student-athlete's junior year in high school. In men's basketball, an institution may not provide recruiting materials to a prospective student-athlete (including general correspondence related to athletics) until June 15 at the conclusion of the prospective student-athlete's sophomore year in high school. Violations of this bylaw shall be considered institutional violations per Constitution 2.8.1; however, they shall not affect the prospective student-athlete's eligibility.

If a school cannot provide even simple recruiting materials to a player until the conclusion of the player's sophomore year, how can any player who is a sophomore or a freshman receive an OFFICIAL scholarship offer??

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Simpkins is Sacramento right? he's the kid that reclassified down a grade last year IIRC.

Yes, that is correct.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

If a school cannot provide even simple recruiting materials to a player until the conclusion of the player's sophomore year, how can any player who is a sophomore or a freshman receive an OFFICIAL scholarship offer??

They can't receive an "official" scholarship offer that can be signed, but they do receive a verbal one that can be agreed upon as such. But I think you already knew that.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

The following is an excerpt from the NCAA Division I Manual:
13.4.1 Recruiting Materials

In sports other than men's basketball, a member institution may not provide recruiting materials to a prospective student-athlete (including general correspondence related to athletics) until September 1 at the beginning of the prospective student-athlete's junior year in high school. In men's basketball, an institution may not provide recruiting materials to a prospective student-athlete (including general correspondence related to athletics) until June 15 at the conclusion of the prospective student-athlete's sophomore year in high school. Violations of this bylaw shall be considered institutional violations per Constitution 2.8.1; however, they shall not affect the prospective student-athlete's eligibility.

If a school cannot provide even simple recruiting materials to a player until the conclusion of the player's sophomore year, how can any player who is a sophomore or a freshman receive an OFFICIAL scholarship offer??

That rule doesnt say anything about text messaging. This is how coaches recruit the young kids. They can send them text messages. In the text messages it says... bla bla bla call me (number). The NCAA rules state that there is no limit on how many times a recruit can call a coach. This is the work around. For example Nic Wise (Arizona) verballed as a freshman. How did he do this since he cant be offered a scholarship?

He talked to the coaches, said he wanted to go to UA and they said ok. Now you may be getting ready to type that you still cant be offered a scholarship. If a player verbals to a school, the school can choose to accept the verbal commitment, meaning they are offering a scholarship. Like I said I can verbal to UA as many times and as early as I want, but in order for it to be official that school has to accept.

 

[bko32]

That rule doesnt say anything about text messaging. This is how coaches recruit the young kids. They can send them text messages. In the text messages it says... bla bla bla call me (number). The NCAA rules state that there is no limit on how many times a recruit can call a coach. This is the work around. For example Nic Wise (Arizona) verballed as a freshman. How did he do this since he cant be offered a scholarship?

He talked to the coaches, said he wanted to go to UA and they said ok. Now you may be getting ready to type that you still cant be offered a scholarship. If a player verbals to a school, the school can choose to accept the verbal commitment, meaning they are offering a scholarship. Like I said I can verbal to UA as many times and as early as I want, but in order for it to be official that school has to accept.

13.1.3.6.1 Exception -- Men's Basketball

In men's basketball, institutional staff members may accept collect telephone calls placed by a prospective student-athlete and the prospective student-athlete's parents and legal guardians, provided the calls are placed not earlier than the conclusion of the prospective student-athlete's sophomore year in high school. The institution may use a toll-free number to receive such calls from prospective student-athlete and the prospective student-athlete's parents or legal guardians.

Now, I know this says phone calls, not text messages. So it very well could be that text messaging is the loophole in all of this.

However, you're missing the point on verbal commitments. There is no such thing as an official verbal commitment. A verbal commitment is not binding in any way. A player can verbally de-commit whenever he chooses as long as an LOI hasn't been signed. If you commit to UofA, you can still visit other schools and other schools can continue to recruit you. This is completely within the NCAA rules, although ethically many schools will stop recruiting a player once they have verbally committed. The only commitment that binds a player to a school is the LOI, which can't be signed until a player's junior year.

 

[Russ Smith]

Speaking of texting, the NCAA is trying to ban it for recruiting.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2841603

The phone stuff is out of hand. sampson got busted for it before leaving OU.
Last week Michael Beasley was quoted on radio as saying he'd spoken to Tim Floyd of USC by phone about coming to USC he said OJ Mayo called him and then handed the phone to Floyd. K State's AD said USC is one of 4 schools they're looking into whether or not they tampered wtih Beasley, they said they had heard from Beasley he'd received several recruiting texts after Huggins left and they were considering a formal complaint to the NCAA.


Banning texting would be pretty hard to enforce if they can't enforce actual phone calls and "accidentally bumping into" recruits which happens all the time.

Should be an interesting situation to watch unfold.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Now, I know this says phone calls, not text messages. So it very well could be that text messaging is the loophole in all of this.

It is THE loop hole, but will be closed as of Aug. 1st.

However, you're missing the point on verbal commitments. There is no such thing as an official verbal commitment. A verbal commitment is not binding in any way. A player can verbally de-commit whenever he chooses as long as an LOI hasn't been signed. If you commit to UofA, you can still visit other schools and other schools can continue to recruit you. This is completely within the NCAA rules, although ethically many schools will stop recruiting a player once they have verbally committed. The only commitment that binds a player to a school is the LOI, which can't be signed until a player's junior year.

I never said anything about an official verbal commitment. There is no such thing. I said that if a player verbals it doesnt mean anything unless the coach accepts the verbal. I am not sure what you are trying to prove to me. I know all these things about verbals, de-committing, LOIs, ect.

What I am saying is:

A player can verbal to anywhere he wants. However, no school, recruiting service, program, coach, player, fan, recognizes this as a verbal commitment unless the coaching staff accepts the verbal. I know this is an unofficial commitment; however the verbal has to be accepted for it to even become an unofficial commitment.

15 players from the class of 2009 can say I want to go to Arizona and will sign a LOI on national signing day. However, their words, choice, or what you are calling a verbal commitment, are not anything more than a player saying I want to go to UA. If Lute Olson says, we accept player x and y's verbal commitment, that means they have an offer coming once they finish their sophomore year and the staff would accept a commitment. For the other 13 players, their wanting to attend UA means absolutely nothing is Lute Olson doesnt accept their verbal commitment.

Here is a case from real life. Darren Collison wanted to attend the UA, it is a well known fact he wanted to go to Arizona. Arizona did not accept a verbal commitment from him; therefore he was not recognized as a verbally committed recruit for Arizona. Now I could go into more detail on what else happened during his recruitment, which was just plain stupid, because the person in charge of his recruitment essentially cut off contact him.

I understand what you are saying, that a coach cant call, send information, and in most regards cant even talk to a recruit until they are a junior. However, a verbal commitment as an 8th grader, freshman, or sophomore, means nothing unless the coaching staff accepts and recognizes the verbal commitment.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Speaking of texting, the NCAA is trying to ban it for recruiting.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2841603

The phone stuff is out of hand. sampson got busted for it before leaving OU.
Last week Michael Beasley was quoted on radio as saying he'd spoken to Tim Floyd of USC by phone about coming to USC he said OJ Mayo called him and then handed the phone to Floyd. K State's AD said USC is one of 4 schools they're looking into whether or not they tampered wtih Beasley, they said they had heard from Beasley he'd received several recruiting texts after Huggins left and they were considering a formal complaint to the NCAA.


Banning texting would be pretty hard to enforce if they can't enforce actual phone calls and "accidentally bumping into" recruits which happens all the time.

Should be an interesting situation to watch unfold.

I think they will get this passed soon and it makes sense. This is the loop hole that got Sampson and others into trouble. It only makes sense to close this hole.

 

[Russ Smith]

Here is a case from real life. Darren Collison wanted to attend the UA, it is a well known fact he wanted to go to Arizona. Arizona did not accept a verbal commitment from him; therefore he was not recognized as a verbally committed recruit for Arizona. Now I could go into more detail on what else happened during his recruitment, which was just plain stupid, because the person in charge of his recruitment essentially cut off contact him.
.

I would argue that worked out just fine but I don't want to rub it in.

 

[bko32]

He talked to the coaches, said he wanted to go to UA and they said ok. Now you may be getting ready to type that you still cant be offered a scholarship. If a player verbals to a school, the school can choose to accept the verbal commitment, meaning they are offering a scholarship. Like I said I can verbal to UA as many times and as early as I want, but in order for it to be official that school has to accept.

Not trying to prove anything to you. You seem like you know what you are talking about. I think it was more misinterpretation on my part. The part above where you mentioned the word "official" regarding verbal commitments threw me off.

 

[Russ Smith]

Not trying to prove anything to you. You seem like you know what you are talking about. I think it was more misinterpretation on my part. The part above where you mentioned the word "official" regarding verbal commitments threw me off.

I asked the same question on another board and the response was this.

The rule you cited doesn't apply because an "offer" is strictly verbal.

Let's say UCLA decides to offer John Q Public, they do so, if he "accepts" he can verbal to UCLA. Now he could verbal to UCLA without an offer and announce it but UCLA wouldn't care, and in fact NCAA rules would allow them to confirm or deny his verbal. Even if Public is a soph, if UCLA offers him and he accepts, he can announce a verbal. That's how UCLA got a verbal from Taylor King in 8th grade, and Nic Wise to UA in 9th grade as mentioned.

But as you said it's totally non binding and since there's no paperwork, it doesn't violate the rule about documents before June of his soph year.

Have to admit I didn't know the answer either, I always thought "offer" means they give you an LOI and ask you to sign it.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Not trying to prove anything to you. You seem like you know what you are talking about. I think it was more misinterpretation on my part. The part above where you mentioned the word "official" regarding verbal commitments threw me off.

I see what you are saying. I didnt realize I said official. I think we both agree that we werent paying attention, lol. Good debate regardless.

 

[Russ Smith]

FYI both Dave Telep and Frank Burlison are reporting that DeRozan has not in fact picked USC although he's considered to still be a strong lean. USC did publicly state that Romeo has NOT signed a LOI, that's all the rules allow them to say, so they're denying he's coming.

Tell you the whole thing was a PR release by Master P trying to generate interest in his son, and USC.

Pretty ridiculous but it did get them in the news.

 

[Mulli]

Tim Floyd is a master of package?