ANOTHER crappy decision...
The Official FIRE CHIP HALE thread
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BC867
Long time Phoenician!
I'm glad to see someone is trying to put some fire into the team. Did you see Melvin's polite golf clap in the dugout when the D'backs were rallying?
Fire Chip Hale for being aggressive? He and Gibson are the only coaches not walking around with their heads down.
green machine
I rule at posting
I'm gonna be honest here: As much as I want Melvin gone, I really don't think it matters how the guy claps.
BC867
Long time Phoenician!
I understand your reaction to my comment. I am concerned about his lack of ability to continually inspire his team. A leader's personality sets the tone, especially with a young squad.
I am not a psychologist, although I have taken post-graduate courses in Industrial Psychology.
I would bet that a trained psychologist would find Bob Melvin to be extremely passive-aggressive. But, unlike most, he doesn't waver back and forth. He's passive 95% of the time, with an occasional burst of emotion.
Getting thrown out of a ball game once in awhile. The sporadic, occasional hit and run call. Watching the team in the doldrums for weeks and weeks, then blowing his top at a team meeting. Then back to the doldrums.
The golf clap was just a mild expression of his lack of ability to establish and maintain enthusiam and confidence, once again particularly among our young players.
Our figurehead wrings his hands at post-game Press conferences and says he doesn't know what to do. Picks at his face. Almost slumped over the table, rather than sitting up and exuding confidence.
The golf clap is barely the tip of the iceberg.
Bob Melvin was an extreme alternative to the Manager he replaced after a few days. The alcoholic, abusive Wally Backman.
We went from one extreme to the other. Extremes do not provide steady, improving results.
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So how many gross errors in judgment has it been now for Hale in the last two weeks or so?
BC867
Long time Phoenician!
Please hear me through on this. Chip Hale has proven himself as a strong, positive leader. Winning a championship, having to react successfully to losing his best players to the parent team during the season.
Aggressive, but under control and an excellent developer of young players. That's been proven.
When a person in his current position (3rd base coach under a passive, inconsistent Manager), he doesn't have much latitute. He must remain loyal to his Manager, while still trying to make things happen.
So Chip recently took some chances within his limited scope of responsibility. Then he went conservative.
Picture any of us in this frustrating situation. I've been through it as Director of Operations under an ineffective Vice President.
I will not evaluate Chip Hale based on his trying to help the team dig its way out under a very inconsistant Manager.
Any more than we should get rid of Justin Upton, Chris Young and Mark Reynolds, because of their disappointing, inconsistent performances in the field (except for Young) and at bat.
We all know that the malaise that permeates this team is under the umbrella of Bob Melvin. That's the team's problem.
We need a Manager who is confident, strong, consistent and intelligent in his actions. At this time, in this situation, I see Chip Hale as that person.
Sending runners around 3B hardly weighs equally with the Diamondbacks needs.
Fire Chip Hale? Yeah, that will solve things.
He's the guy who has proven he can get the best out of our young players. It's once they reach Melvin that they ultimately get traded away . . . and then prosper.
Let's look at the big picture.
So I don't fault Chip Hale
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Its astounding how Bob Melvin can get blamed for Chip Hale (who I never said should be fired, but this is getting ridiculous) stopping a guy at third who could have crawled backwards home. I'm sure it was all of those uninteresting Melvin press conferences that has somehow caused Hale to completely misjudge situations time and time again. Has anyone ever witnessed a stretch where the third base coach has been at fault for as many outs as Hale has been over the last two weeks? The sad thing is that true accountability doesn't even exist anymore. Whatever the issue, blame the manager. Its easier than thinking.
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Desert Rat
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IIRC, Butterfield had had his mental lapses in the third base box, too.
Chip Hale's run-costing mistakes have been Bob Melvin's fault? Does **** roll uphill now? Maybe Hale was talked to about it by Melvin, but Melvin is not the type of guy to run someone under the bus, whether or not it's deserving. When Hale was lecturing Hudson last week, my thought was, "maybe O-dog knows better than to listen to you". Bosses don't like that, trust me.
Chip Hale's run-costing mistakes have been Bob Melvin's fault? Does **** roll uphill now? Maybe Hale was talked to about it by Melvin, but Melvin is not the type of guy to run someone under the bus, whether or not it's deserving. When Hale was lecturing Hudson last week, my thought was, "maybe O-dog knows better than to listen to you". Bosses don't like that, trust me.
BC867
Long time Phoenician!
This thread is entitled, "The Official FIRE CHIP HALE thread". Yes, I did react to talk about his being fired.
Both Hale and Drew, from their vantage points said it looked like the ball had been caught and acted accordingly. Imagine if it had been and Drew was doubled off. How easy it is for a fan in front of the TV to second guess.coyotehockeyfan said:
Yeah, close the post with a personal attack. That will convince people that your opinion is the only valid one, won't it? Tsk, tsk.coyotehockeyfan said:
I stand by my thoughts and I stand by my opinion on this, because you didn't say anything to make me change my mind.
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I wasn't the one who said he should be fired, but I felt this was the most appropriate thread for the subject at hand anyways.
Making one mistake at third isn't the issue, its the amount that have been made there in such a short timeframe. Exactly what is the running total of lapses in judgment for Hale has it been for the last two weeks?
Coming from the champ of morning after managing himself?
I don't expect to change your mind nor do I care to do so, and I didn't address you until after you quoted me.
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DWKB
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Ha! It's funny cause it's true!
OP
OP
bump
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Whatever the running total was at before, add another one to it. 
devilalum
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What's the MLB record for runners thrown out at the plate in a season and how many have the Dbacks given up?
ArizonaSportsFan
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I think that Hale must have a personal goal to get Drew thrown out at home 10 times this season. I think that was only number 3 (or was it 4?), so he is way behind his goal.
Desert Rat
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What gets me is the ovation Drew got for the hustle, trying to make it an inside the park home run. It's like people were happy about this. Hello, this is the kind of thing that costs you baseball games. 
OP
OP
What gets me is the ovation Drew got for the hustle, trying to make it an inside the park home run. It's like people were happy about this. Hello, this is the kind of thing that costs you baseball games.
And it did.
devilalum
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What gets me is the ovation Drew got for the hustle, trying to make it an inside the park home run. It's like people were happy about this. Hello, this is the kind of thing that costs you baseball games.
Its not Drew's fault Hale waved him home. What's wrong with applauding his hustle.
BC867
Long time Phoenician!
Oh no, not the Pitching Coach too.
We have a Manager and evidently a Pitching Coach who have the team playing back on its heels and can't think beyond the moment.
Listen to this quote from Pitching Coach Bryan Price, when talking about the Cubs chances this year.
"I don't think there's amything to suggest they're not capable of doing some great things this year. That's not to discount every other team in the league."
If you add up the negatives, is that supposed to be a professional opinion?
Our Pitching Coach is as passive as his Manager. Would any of us hire anyone who hedges that way?
And this thread wants to get rid of one of the few rays of sunshine, Chip Hale, a proven Manager who is willing to be aggressive (within his limited current scope of responsibility) to change the status quo, which seems to be sit back and wait for something to happen.
Where has that gotten us?
What cost us the baseball game was an overworked Brandon Lyon giving up five runs in the 9th inning for a 6-5 loss.What gets me is the ovation Drew got for the hustle, trying to make it an inside the park home run. It's like people were happy about this. Hello, this is the kind of thing that costs you baseball games.
We have a Manager and evidently a Pitching Coach who have the team playing back on its heels and can't think beyond the moment.
Listen to this quote from Pitching Coach Bryan Price, when talking about the Cubs chances this year.
"I don't think there's amything to suggest they're not capable of doing some great things this year. That's not to discount every other team in the league."
If you add up the negatives, is that supposed to be a professional opinion?
Our Pitching Coach is as passive as his Manager. Would any of us hire anyone who hedges that way?
And this thread wants to get rid of one of the few rays of sunshine, Chip Hale, a proven Manager who is willing to be aggressive (within his limited current scope of responsibility) to change the status quo, which seems to be sit back and wait for something to happen.
Where has that gotten us?
OP
OP
chip may be a fine manager (unknown at the ML level). but he is a piss-poor third base coach. Big difference between being aggressive and being STUPID, which is what many of his decisions have been.
scXfreakX
Huh?
This team....
Desert Rat
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No, no, no, absolutely NOT!
OP
OP
bump
BC867
Long time Phoenician!
Good question. Actually, Kirk Gibson should be our hitting coach.
The bench coach is an Assistant-to-the-Manager with no identity of his own. Or, as in this case, a boistrious guy to offset a shy Manager.
Hale and Gibson are both aggressive. With one of them as Manager, a low-key guy like Jay Bell would be a good Manager's assistant.
Although I prefer Hale to Gibson, because he's higher on the learning curve as Manager, I would take either, as a better long-range planner than Melvin.
And, with our preponderance of young position players, long-range planning for their development and confidence is paramount.
I just recently read about someone (I think it was Gonzo in his evaluation of the D'backs vs. Dodgers race) refer to the D'backs as having a better pitching staff, but "sitting back and waiting for the 3-run homerun".
I trust Gonzo's opinion. Hopefully he'll be back with the organization after he retires.
