The Official US Soccer thread

[Zeno]

Yeah, but let's face it: we're not a good team. Oh sure, we're at the top of CONCACAF, but that's not saying much. As far as the world is concerned, we're middle-tier. And middle-tier teams don't sit back on offense, counterstrike, and truly hope to score. Unless they're one of those teams that bunker down at the beginning and hope for a draw, they don't.

Yes, we have some up-and-coming youngsters in Midfield, but they aren't world-class yet. That covers Bradley, Adu, and Edu. And, lest you forget, Donovan and Dempsey are actually forwards. Why not let them play their true position rather than push them back into midfield?

Middle tier teams certainly do pack the MF and play for the counter or did you forget Greece in Euro 2004? I'm not saying thats what the US should do but thats what they did. The Ukraine was succesful with that in the last WC too..of course they had a guy named Shevchenko up top.

Dempsey is NOT a forward...he plays much better as a MF, the vast majority of his goals and best play we've seen from him on the National team have come from the MF position. At Fulham it's felt he is playing out of position at forward too, he is seeing some success but its been acknowledged that its not his ideal position but due to injuries and really a lack of talent on Fulham he is forced to play up top.

 

[Zeno]

yea i hear ya.. i'm not a fan of a 4-5-1 either. When england lined up that way against croatia it made me cringe and they paid for it...

up top has got to be dempsey and jozy though....

Play Dempsey up top and you'll see more of what you got from him against South Africa(which was a player lost playing out of position) versus what you saw from him during the Gold Cup or against Brazil (a guy who attacked defenders and scored goals as a MF).

 

[Stout]

Middle tier teams certainly do pack the MF and play for the counter or did you forget Greece in Euro 2004? I'm not saying thats what the US should do but thats what they did. The Ukraine was succesful with that in the last WC too..of course they had a guy named Shevchenko up top.

Dempsey is NOT a forward...he plays much better as a MF, the vast majority of his goals and best play we've seen from him on the National team have come from the MF position. At Fulham it's felt he is playing out of position at forward too, he is seeing some success but its been acknowledged that its not his ideal position but due to injuries and really a lack of talent on Fulham he is forced to play up top.

Well, let's see. Greece is one example out of thousands. You immediatley discounted the Ukraine example, because we have no striker anywhere in the league of Schevchenko. And I didn't say that middle tier teams didn't do it at all. Of course they do. I said they don't do it with any true measure of success. And, for the most part, it usually fails, just like the prevent defense in American football. It's soft, it makes you sit back on your heals, and usually doesn't work for the middle-tier guys.

Everything I've seen of Dempsey has said that he's a forward. And if he isn't, Donovan certainly is. We have NO reason not to play Donovan up top. We have NO reason to play a 4-5-1. Our strength, such as it is, should be in attacking, because our defense remains suspect. To therefore revert to a formation which lessens our attack capabilities is bad futbol.

 

[Zeno]

Everything I've seen of Dempsey has said that he's a forward. And if he isn't, Donovan certainly is. We have NO reason not to play Donovan up top. We have NO reason to play a 4-5-1. Our strength, such as it is, should be in attacking, because our defense remains suspect. To therefore revert to a formation which lessens our attack capabilities is bad futbol.

Dempsey was a MF with the U20's, a MF in college, a MF with the U23's, a MF with the Revolution, signed with Fulham as a MF and has scored all his goals with the US Nats as a MF...so what tells you he is a forward? I may concede Donovan but only when he has a big strong striker playing with him, otherwise he is much better off as a MF where he can play in space).

Again a 4-5-1 is not defenseive MF when it maintains 2 speedy outside MF(Beasley & Dempsey), an attacking MF(Donovan) and a withdrawn forward playing behind the striker(Adu).

 

[Stout]

Dempsey was a MF with the U20's, a MF in college, a MF with the U23's, a MF with the Revolution, signed with Fulham as a MF and has scored all his goals with the US Nats as a MF...so what tells you he is a forward? I may concede Donovan but only when he has a big strong striker playing with him, otherwise he is much better off as a MF where he can play in space).

Again a 4-5-1 is not defenseive MF when it maintains 2 speedy outside MF(Beasley & Dempsey), an attacking MF(Donovan) and a withdrawn forward playing behind the striker(Adu).

I obviously haven't followed it as much as you; I just looked at Dempsey bios, which all said F, and remembered that he started with us as a F.

I agree about Donovan, but I think it's because he stunted his own progression; whenever things got tough, he withdrew back to the states and stayed soft. He can play gritty, but only in spots, and he hasn't shown the true push to be a great player.

Granted we have a ton of talent at midfield, and a 4-5-1 MAY work, but not the way we utilize it. As you say, if it is set up and used exclusively to allow our midfield to attack like crazy, then sure, it COULD work. Unfortunately, whenever our coaches have used it, they have not pushed like that. It just always seems to take away from our attack, rather than add to it.

 

[gr000000vy]

We have NO reason not to play Donovan up top.

sure we do.. Jozy and Dempsey are better up top... or worst case Jozy and Adu up top with Clint playing in the middle.....

i'm so tired of watching Donovan tear apart all the Concacaf teams and then suck against everyone else....

 

[Stout]

sure we do.. Jozy and Dempsey are better up top... or worst case Jozy and Adu up top with Clint playing in the middle.....

i'm so tired of watching Donovan tear apart all the Concacaf teams and then suck against everyone else....

Then put two strikers up top and leave Donovan as an offensive midfielder...then we'd have some truly dangerous attacking possibilities. And, let's face it: goal scoring is our chance to compete.

 

[gr000000vy]

without messing with the backs or keep... how about....

Beasley - Bradley - Dempsey - Convey

Jozy - Adu (Holding Striker)

 

[cardfaninfl]

without messing with the backs or keep... how about....

Beasley - Bradley - Dempsey - Convey

Jozy - Adu (Holding Striker)

Dempsey - Bradley - Edu/Pearce - Beasley

Donovan

Altidore

I have to agree with Zeno on the 4-5-1. I love Dempsey's game...as a W/AM, I don't believe he is a true CF. Assuming that...we are painfully thin up top, but are deep at opportunistic mids.

Donovan frustrats all of us, but what can Bradley do but put him on the pitch. Honestly, my feelings toward prima-Donovan are the same toward Beasley... too many long stretches where they seem to disappear and they can be muscled/intimidated.

 

[Zeno]

I obviously haven't followed it as much as you; I just looked at Dempsey bios, which all said F, and remembered that he started with us as a F.

He didn't start with the Nats as a Forward. He was only put there because we had almost zero potions when it became painfully clear than Johnson's development hit a wall, Twellman was never going to be a factor on the international level, Ching's lack of durability and lack of any depth at that position. Hopefully Altidore develops so that Dempsey can play on the outside in the MF where he is most effective...another forward developing would be very welcome too but unfortunately we have more questions than answers up top.

 

[Zeno]

without messing with the backs or keep... how about....

Beasley - Bradley - Dempsey - Convey

Jozy - Adu (Holding Striker)

We can't count on Convey to stay healthy and it makes no sense to have Beasley and Convey on the field at the same time because they are both left side players and struggle playing on the right or center.

 

[gr000000vy]

bah... soccer positions are only for the stat book and where you stand when the whistle is blown. soccer is soccer and beasley would be just fine on the right side. watch a game and count how many times a right side flank player goes to the left and vice versa....

 

[Zeno]

bah... soccer positions are only for the stat book and where you stand when the whistle is blown. soccer is soccer and beasley would be just fine on the right side. watch a game and count how many times a right side flank player goes to the left and vice versa....

Watch a game where Beasley was lined up on the right and you'll see how poorly he played. Arena tried it and he struggled, when he moved from the left to right at PSV he went from being one of the teams most productive players to expendable (he was then loaned out to Man City). He has even come out and said he doesn't like playing on the right and took a public swipe at Arena for playing him there.

Its sort of like making Dempsey a target forward...sure you have the guy on the field but you have him in a place where he'll be less productive rather than playing where he is more comfortable.

 

[Stout]

Watch a game where Beasley was lined up on the right and you'll see how poorly he played. Arena tried it and he struggled, when he moved from the left to right at PSV he went from being one of the teams most productive players to expendable (he was then loaned out to Man City). He has even come out and said he doesn't like playing on the right and took a public swipe at Arena for playing him there.

Its sort of like making Dempsey a target forward...sure you have the guy on the field but you have him in a place where he'll be less productive rather than playing where he is more comfortable.

This question comes from a layman, so take it for what it's worth. What is the real difference between playing on the right versus the left? Is it foot-dominance? Is it simple mindset? If it isn't foot-dominance, then I would have to argue that it's simply a matter of the player making it work, as there shouldn't be a reason why a player cannot make such an easy transition. I may be off base, and I may be completely wrong, so take it for what it's worth. I'm floating it out there not really knowing.

 

[Zeno]

This question comes from a layman, so take it for what it's worth. What is the real difference between playing on the right versus the left? Is it foot-dominance? Is it simple mindset? If it isn't foot-dominance, then I would have to argue that it's simply a matter of the player making it work, as there shouldn't be a reason why a player cannot make such an easy transition. I may be off base, and I may be completely wrong, so take it for what it's worth. I'm floating it out there not really knowing.

In Beasleys case its 1) foot dominance (he is obviously left footed) 2) comfort (he favors his left so much you can almost see him trying not to go right--it causes him to hesistate and make mistakes)...as a pro and an international it shouldn't be an issue but with him that clearly is the case. Convey is more of the same but not to the degree of Beasley--Convey could comfortably play in the center but he is clearly not even among the top 5 or 6 options there.

Unfortunately it'll be a few months before we see a full strength US squad so I guess we have no idea what Bradley will roll out...about the only things that'll be guaranteed is Howard, Bocanegra, Donovan, Dempsey & Bradley will be in the lineup...in the cases of Donovan & Dempsey where they play is the question--the rest of the lineup will see open competition.

 

[gr000000vy]

In High School you play on the left side because you have a good left foot and you can cross well... also to some degree it;s the same in college but not as much.. at this level.. all the players can use both feet and you take the open space that is in front of you and if you play left and the space takes you to the right then guess where you end up? on the right most likely due to a over lap....

if beasley really said that then he is an idiot because no quality player would say something like that.... you play where the gaffer tells you too and that is the end of it....

i havent watched Beasley much at PSV except for Champions league matches because.. well its PSV. However at Man City he did play outside right on numerous occasions... He reason he isn't in the EPL anymore is because he is a soft player.

 

[Zeno]

i havent watched Beasley much at PSV except for Champions league matches because.. well its PSV. However at Man City he did play outside right on numerous occasions... He reason he isn't in the EPL anymore is because he is a soft player.

Beasley never started on the right for Man City...the only times he played on the right was when he came on as a late sub. Believe me Beasley was one of my favorite players and I watched him a lot. The only coach he had that really put him in the best position to play was Guus Hiddink, but then again IMO Hiddink is one of the best coaches in the world and is always going to put players in a position where they can be most productive. I wish he would have been a candidate for the US coaching vacancy.

 

[Zeno]

Gameday for the game versus Sweden. I want to see Altidore get as much playing time as possible tonight, I don't want to see Chris Rolfe start at all...let him be a late sub.

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

Landon Donovan passed Eric Wynalda as the all time goal scorer for the US with his penalty kick to put the US up 2-0.

 

[cardfaninfl]

Kuddos to Donovan for breaking the US record. Guzan and Davis played a very good game. The more I see of Jozy, the more I like this teenager. Edu had another solid match, but Twellman and Rolfe were abysmal.

If Twellman is one of our top 11 players... I would rather see Bradley play 10 for 90 minutes. Rolfe was standing 3 yards away from goal and decided to be a spectator on a smart corner by Davis. The men's national team is hurting up-top.

 

[azsouthendzone]

Kuddos to Donovan for breaking the US record. Guzan and Davis played a very good game. The more I see of Jozy, the more I like this teenager. Edu had another solid match, but Twellman and Rolfe were abysmal.

If Twellman is one of our top 11 players... I would rather see Bradley play 10 for 90 minutes. Rolfe was standing 3 yards away from goal and decided to be a spectator on a smart corner by Davis. The men's national team is hurting up-top.

Why is Twellman so damn bad at the international level? And why does he wear a youth kit? I just don't get that guy. He dominates with the Revs but once he steps fut on the pitch for the Nats he falls apart. I didn't see the game but in the previous games they obviously have had a hard time finishing. If they can solidify the midfield I would be all for moving Donovan up top with Jozy. We need guys that can finish if we want to make any noise in South Africa. Did Michael Bradley play in this game or Feilhaber?

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

Why is Twellman so damn bad at the international level? And why does he wear a youth kit? I just don't get that guy. He dominates with the Revs but once he steps fut on the pitch for the Nats he falls apart. I didn't see the game but in the previous games they obviously have had a hard time finishing. If they can solidify the midfield I would be all for moving Donovan up top with Jozy. We need guys that can finish if we want to make any noise in South Africa. Did Michael Bradley play in this game or Feilhaber?

No Bradley or Feilhaber as they are with their Euro clubs. It was mostly an MLS roster with a few Scandinavian based players who are on break right now.

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

The US team will play Spain in a friendly on June 4th, no word yet on where it will be held.

 

[azsouthendzone]

No Bradley or Feilhaber as they are with their Euro clubs. It was mostly an MLS roster with a few Scandinavian based players who are on break right now.

They better bring a real squad vs. Mexico. None of this Twellman crap.

 

[Compa]

I didn't get to see almost all of the game. Did the Swedes have anybody good playing? I would think their top players were still with their clubs. In the few minutes I watched, which were at the end of the game when the US was up 2-0, the commentator said something about this victory "sending a message across the Atlantic." Am I missing something?