The Overlooked Benefit of Grant Hill

[cly2tw]

Imagine for one moment that Hill played in place of Marion in the Spurs series, with no other roster changes even. I'd say we might have won that series for the simple fact, Hill would have scored at will against Parker, Manu, Barry, and even Finley, when Nash was covered by Bowen. With KT's deadly 15 footers, TD would get punished by leaving him to help on Hill. On defense, we'd just have to switch Bell on Parker and Hill on Manu/Parker. Hill is savvy enough that neither would scroe on him one-on-one.

 

[azirish]

Imagine for one moment that Hill played in place of Marion in the Spurs series, with no other roster changes even. I'd say we might have won that series for the simple fact, Hill would have scored at will against Parker, Manu, Barry, and even Finley, when Nash was covered by Bowen. With KT's deadly 15 footers, TD would get punished by leaving him to help on Hill. On defense, we'd just have to switch Bell on Parker and Hill on Manu/Parker. Hill is savvy enough that neither would scroe on him one-on-one.

I don't know how the rotation would have worked, but clearly Jones 3.3 ppg and 1.0 rpg in 12.8 minutes was not much help.

At the same time, Marion was forced to play 42.5 minutes, which was at least part of the reason he was not able to keep up with Parker (a bad defensive scheme didn't help either.) Bell also was forced to play 42.2 minutes.

 

[cly2tw]

I don't know how the rotation would have worked, but clearly Jones 3.3 ppg and 1.0 rpg in 12.8 minutes was not much help.

At the same time, Marion was forced to play 42.5 minutes, which was at least part of the reason he was not able to keep up with Parker (a bad defensive scheme didn't help either.) Bell also was forced to play 42.2 minutes.

That's exactly one major problem. Were Bell to play 30 min a game, he'd be effective to cover/hound Parker with fresh legs. But when he is asked to play 43 min, then his effectiveness on defense suffers. In the end, he couldn't even shut down Manu who was not in form at all! Go figure.

 

[azirish]

That's exactly one major problem. Were Bell to play 30 min a game, he'd be effective to cover/hound Parker with fresh legs. But when he is asked to play 43 min, then his effectiveness on defense suffers. In the end, he couldn't even shut down Manu who was not in form at all! Go figure.

I'm not sure the problem was so much the man defense as the slow rotations off the picks. I really think the Suns need a great defense guru who understands small ball defense. (Getting someone who can coach good defense with Yao in the paint may not be much help).

I was very impressed with the way UCLA played defense in the tournament dispite not having anybody over 6'7". They anticipated what the offensive player was going to do and did not just rely on athleticism to beat their man to the spot.

 

[Errntknght]

Imagine for one moment that Hill played in place of Marion in the Spurs series, with no other roster changes even. I'd say we might have won that series for the simple fact, Hill would have scored at will against Parker, Manu, Barry, and even Finley, when Nash was covered by Bowen. With KT's deadly 15 footers, TD would get punished by leaving him to help on Hill. On defense, we'd just have to switch Bell on Parker and Hill on Manu/Parker. Hill is savvy enough that neither would scroe on him one-on-one.

Not having seen Hill play recently I'm certainly no authority on his game but I just can't imagine him scoring 'at will' against the Spurs and particularly not against Manu - nor can I imagine him defending Manu all that well. On top of that with Hill in place of Marion, we'd be hurting on the glass.

I'm looking forward to having Hill on the team but I think we'd better watch a while before we anoint him the team savior.

 

[Goldfield]

Lost in all this about hill is the Suns might get afew teams in foul trouble with Amare not being the ONLY guy gettin fouled.

Other teams never have guys in foul trouble against us, which also allows them to play much more aggressive D.

Hill will be a very nice addition. Lets hope he can be healthy for the playoffs.

 

[azirish]

One of the problems the Suns had last season was that they did not attack opponent's weak spots. For example, Finley is not really a particularly good defender, but nothing was done to take advantage of him. Having another slasher could help change the way the Suns half court offense goes after opponents.

 

[AZBALLER]

Hill actually is going to be a liability as a free throw shooter. I think he's like 75% career wise compared to the Suns shooting 80%+ the last couple years.

Give me a player that gets to the line as often as Hill and makes 75% of the shots any day of the week. PLEASE!

 

[JCSunsfan]

Does anyone know about Grant Hill as a defender? Please, let it be from real observation, or from the opinions of others who would be good judges. No "he's a gimpy offensive player so there is no way he can be good" comments.

 

[binkar]

One of the problems the Suns had last season was that they did not attack opponent's weak spots. For example, Finley is not really a particularly good defender, but nothing was done to take advantage of him. Having another slasher could help change the way the Suns half court offense goes after opponents.

I agree. Watching the Spurs defend the Suns last year, they are great at pressing them out at the three point line making it difficult for the suns to get an easy look for 3. That often killed us because we weren't particularly strong at attacking the basket. I love Raja but he is not the best at slashing to the basket, nor is Shawn, or anyone besides Steve, Leandro, Amare, and occasionally Boris when he actually does it (although if what I am saying is right you would think Leandro would have had a lot better series than he did, so maybe I am wrong).

I am not saying Grant Hill is the Savior, but I do think he makes us a little better offensively. It would be great if he could shoot the 3, but I think he makes up for it with his good midrange jumper and ability to attack the basket and get to the line. The one draw back is of course that JJ could sometimes knock down the open three.

The other thought is this...

With our starting lineups last year Steve was often the only person who could penetrate. With him penetrating the defense would suck in a bit giving him the opportunity to dish it out to Raja, James, or Shawn (who always scares me to watch shoot the three even though he isn't an awful shooter) for the open three. Well if Grant has the ball and penetrates and the defense collapses we still have Steve (who is still probably the best shooter on the team imo), Raja, and Shawn or whoever there to knock down the 3.

I don't know maybe I am just making stuff up but it seemed good in my head.

 

[da_suns_fan]

Im a little worried about his three point shooting.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Assuming this is our lineup next year,

How will Hill's arrival change KT's time on the court? Will it make the coach more likely or less likely to give KT minutes?

IMO KT plays as good defense on Duncan as anyone in the league. His D on Duncan is sufficient enough for us to win, provided his stamina can handle the minutes.

 

[Mainstreet]

I agree. Watching the Spurs defend the Suns last year, they are great at pressing them out at the three point line making it difficult for the suns to get an easy look for 3. That often killed us because we weren't particularly strong at attacking the basket. I love Raja but he is not the best at slashing to the basket, nor is Shawn, or anyone besides Steve, Leandro, Amare, and occasionally Boris when he actually does it (although if what I am saying is right you would think Leandro would have had a lot better series than he did, so maybe I am wrong).

I think your right the Suns did not do a good job of slashing to the basket.

I do think in retrospect that LB was not the same player in the SA series (like he was in the Laker series) because of injury. Even his 3 point shooting seemed to be off. I know TD covering the basket had a huge impact on his drives, but not this much on a player with LB's quickness. Also SA did a good job of slapping around Steve and LB (and getting away with it) when they drove the ball to the basket. Boris had the ability to drive the ball to the basket but he and the Suns did not take advantage of his skills. I think Boris (if he were aggressive) is the one player that could have gotten TD in foul trouble because he has a myriad of moves under the basket.

 

[azirish]

I agree. Watching the Spurs defend the Suns last year, they are great at pressing them out at the three point line making it difficult for the suns to get an easy look for 3. That often killed us because we weren't particularly strong at attacking the basket. I love Raja but he is not the best at slashing to the basket, nor is Shawn, or anyone besides Steve, Leandro, Amare, and occasionally Boris when he actually does it (although if what I am saying is right you would think Leandro would have had a lot better series than he did, so maybe I am wrong).

I am not saying Grant Hill is the Savior, but I do think he makes us a little better offensively. It would be great if he could shoot the 3, but I think he makes up for it with his good midrange jumper and ability to attack the basket and get to the line. The one draw back is of course that JJ could sometimes knock down the open three.

The other thought is this...

With our starting lineups last year Steve was often the only person who could penetrate. With him penetrating the defense would suck in a bit giving him the opportunity to dish it out to Raja, James, or Shawn (who always scares me to watch shoot the three even though he isn't an awful shooter) for the open three. Well if Grant has the ball and penetrates and the defense collapses we still have Steve (who is still probably the best shooter on the team imo), Raja, and Shawn or whoever there to knock down the 3.

I don't know maybe I am just making stuff up but it seemed good in my head.

A fair amount of the notion that the Suns are "soft" comes from how only Amare really attacks the basket with power. The result is that the Spurs did not worry about it and pressed the three point shooters.

Hill and perhaps Tucker are guys who really attack the basket and are not bothered by contact. I think this may help to change the Suns excessively soft image.

 

[binkar]

We always here how Coach D likes 5 shooter on the floor. I think whenever we hear this we generally think of people who can knock down the three (except the bigs). It's interesting but there are a lot of players who can knock down the open three but don't shoot as well inside that (e.g. Bell and others). Although Hill doesn't shoot the three well (if ever) he is still a good shooter and has a great mid range game along with his ability to attack the basket. I think those abilities put with those like Raja who shoot the three better make us more dynamic in the half court offense. James Jones shot an awful 36.8% from the field, so Hill's 51.2% from the field is a shooting improvement regardless if he Jones shoots the three better.

Nash 53.2%
Stat 57.5%
Marion 52.4%
Jones 36.8%
Bell 43.2%
Barbosa 47.6%
Diaw 53.8%
Thomas 48.6%

Hill 51.2%

 

[azirish]

We always here how Coach D likes 5 shooter on the floor. I think whenever we hear this we generally think of people who can knock down the three (except the bigs). It's interesting but there are a lot of players who can knock down the open three but don't shoot as well inside that (e.g. Bell and others). Although Hill doesn't shoot the three well (if ever) he is still a good shooter and has a great mid range game along with his ability to attack the basket. I think those abilities put with those like Raja who shoot the three better make us more dynamic in the half court offense. James Jones shot an awful 36.8% from the field, so Hill's 51.2% from the field is a shooting improvement regardless if he Jones shoots the three better.

Nash 53.2%
Stat 57.5%
Marion 52.4%
Jones 36.8%
Bell 43.2%
Barbosa 47.6%
Diaw 53.8%
Thomas 48.6%

Hill 51.2%

D'Antoni likes to be able to spread the floor, so being effective shooting three is very valuable. Still, teams that leave a high percentage mid range guy open are asking for trouble.

 

[Stargazer]

I agree. Watching the Spurs defend the Suns last year, they are great at pressing them out at the three point line making it difficult for the suns to get an easy look for 3. That often killed us because we weren't particularly strong at attacking the basket. I love Raja but he is not the best at slashing to the basket, nor is Shawn, or anyone besides Steve, Leandro, Amare, and occasionally Boris when he actually does it (although if what I am saying is right you would think Leandro would have had a lot better series than he did, so maybe I am wrong).

I am not saying Grant Hill is the Savior, but I do think he makes us a little better offensively. It would be great if he could shoot the 3, but I think he makes up for it with his good midrange jumper and ability to attack the basket and get to the line. The one draw back is of course that JJ could sometimes knock down the open three.

The other thought is this...

With our starting lineups last year Steve was often the only person who could penetrate. With him penetrating the defense would suck in a bit giving him the opportunity to dish it out to Raja, James, or Shawn (who always scares me to watch shoot the three even though he isn't an awful shooter) for the open three. Well if Grant has the ball and penetrates and the defense collapses we still have Steve (who is still probably the best shooter on the team imo), Raja, and Shawn or whoever there to knock down the 3.

I don't know maybe I am just making stuff up but it seemed good in my head.

This is a great point. With Hill, maybe we're not trading JJ's 3's for Hill's, but rather trading JJ's 3's for Nash's.

 

[Stargazer]

Hill actually is going to be a liability as a free throw shooter. I think he's like 75% career wise compared to the Suns shooting 80%+ the last couple years.

This is wrong. The question is not whether Hill drags the average percentage down, but whether he adds to the total number made. An average possession is about 1 point, so 75% on two free throws improves on that.

Think of it this way -- if that weren't the case, then teams would intentionally foul Hill every time to lower our scoring total. But that never happens.

 

[Mainstreet]

This is wrong. The question is not whether Hill drags the average percentage down, but whether he adds to the total number made. An average possession is about 1 point, so 75% on two free throws improves on that.

I take it your not a rookie although your your post count is low.

Welcome to the board.

 

[azirish]

I take it your not a rookie although your your post count is low.

Welcome to the board.

Agreed

BTW, drawing fouls is also useful because defenders become more tentative as they get into foul trouble.