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kerouac9

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It's pretty hilarious to me that anyone thinks that Josh Freeman can be had for less than a Top 15 draft pick, and probably more like a Top 15 pick + a mid-round pick or starter on his first contract.

Dude is in pretty much the same position that Joe Flacco was in two years ago, only he hasn't had as good a defense around him. He has one year left on his rookie deal at a reasonable number, and then would be an easy candidate for the Franchise tag in 2014.

Had a QBR over 50 in 11 games last year, including a home game against San Diego with a QBR over 94(!). And he just turned 25--he has at least 8 years of good, good football ahead of him.

I'd give up The #7 pick and Michael Floyd for Josh Freeman in a millisecond. I'd probably give up the #7, Floyd, and our 3rd for Freeman.
 

desertdawg

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It's pretty hilarious to me that anyone thinks that Josh Freeman can be had for less than a Top 15 draft pick, and probably more like a Top 15 pick + a mid-round pick or starter on his first contract.

Dude is in pretty much the same position that Joe Flacco was in two years ago, only he hasn't had as good a defense around him. He has one year left on his rookie deal at a reasonable number, and then would be an easy candidate for the Franchise tag in 2014.

Had a QBR over 50 in 11 games last year, including a home game against San Diego with a QBR over 94(!). And he just turned 25--he has at least 8 years of good, good football ahead of him.

I'd give up The #7 pick and Michael Floyd for Josh Freeman in a millisecond. I'd probably give up the #7, Floyd, and our 3rd for Freeman.

I was pimping the trade Floyd awhile ago, and I would do it in a second for Freeman. If he really is on the table, Floyd and a second should do the deal. I aint got no problem with Floyd, and I think in the right setting he might be able to beast. I just don't know why we got him with our top pick, I don't think he was BPA where we got him.
 

vince56

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Geno Smith---Won't be there in the second round, but not worth top 10.

I've never understood this logic. You get one guy per round. One. If your guy is there when you pick, and you know he will not be there 32 picks later, you take him. The whole idea of calling it a reach when it's clearly the player you want is ridiculous.
 

desertdawg

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I've never understood this logic. You get one guy per round. One. If your guy is there when you pick, and you know he will not be there 32 picks later, you take him. The whole idea of calling it a reach when it's clearly the player you want is ridiculous.
Geno Smith won't even be there when we pick in the first round.
 

kerouac9

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I was pimping the trade Floyd awhile ago, and I would do it in a second for Freeman. If he really is on the table, Floyd and a second should do the deal. I aint got no problem with Floyd, and I think in the right setting he might be able to beast. I just don't know why we got him with our top pick, I don't think he was BPA where we got him.

I disagree. It took a 2nd rounder and DRC to get Kevin Kolb, who was a much worse prospect than Josh Freeman.
 

Doc Cardinal

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It's pretty hilarious to me that anyone thinks that Josh Freeman can be had for less than a Top 15 draft pick, and probably more like a Top 15 pick + a mid-round pick or starter on his first contract.

Dude is in pretty much the same position that Joe Flacco was in two years ago, only he hasn't had as good a defense around him. He has one year left on his rookie deal at a reasonable number, and then would be an easy candidate for the Franchise tag in 2014.

Had a QBR over 50 in 11 games last year, including a home game against San Diego with a QBR over 94(!). And he just turned 25--he has at least 8 years of good, good football ahead of him.

I'd give up The #7 pick and Michael Floyd for Josh Freeman in a millisecond. I'd probably give up the #7, Floyd, and our 3rd for Freeman.

This.
 

Cbus cardsfan

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I've never understood this logic. You get one guy per round. One. If your guy is there when you pick, and you know he will not be there 32 picks later, you take him. The whole idea of calling it a reach when it's clearly the player you want is ridiculous.
That's because there is value within each round, as eveidenced by thte old point based value system teams used to trade picks. I agree that if you're picking 7th and, say the 11th rated guy is who you like, then you take him. But if it's the 27th rated player, he's rated there for a reason, it's not smart to take him and select the more talented player. You're more likely to get players with equal ability the further you get into the draft.
 

john h

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It should be fascinating to see what BA, SK and TM have in mind for the QB position.

Having spent a good deal of time evaluating the potential QB options, I thought I would offer my thoughts---as in gut impulse thoughts.

Kevin Kolb---can't believe he would even be a consideration based on money (even at a reduced salary) and durability issues. He just doesn't inspire a lot of confidence or the thought of dependability and stability.

John Skelton---low salary and not a lot of high expectations at this point. But, I am especially curious to see what the coaching changes will do for him. Obviously he needs coaching. If he fails with this braintrust, the book will be closed on him. Still love the big arm and the toughness in the pocket---and if you go back and watch how he beat the 49ers in 2011, those are the types of staple intermediate to deep passes that BA loves. For that reason I give him a chance.

Ryan Lindley---what I would like to do is erase the slate with him because he clearly wasn't ready to compete in regular season games and still wont be a for a year or two, if he can hold on to the #3 job. He has the arm---but the head?

Brian Hoyer---he is a viable #2, imo, and could emerge as the stopgap #1 if no one else does. Not even sure, however, if the team intends to re-sign him.

Alex Smith---saw a 49ers' fan blog where he said, "our worst fear is him going to Arizona." But---it's not going to happen because Smith has superb trade value (@ $7M per year for the next two years), and the 49ers are not going to trade him to the Cardinals. I think he will be traded to the Jags (#33 pick) or the Chiefs (#34 pick)...or to the Browns for their 3rd rounder (#68) and their 2nd rounder in 2014.

Matt Moore---intriguing option---has had some solid success and was very well coached last year by Joe Philbin. I think he is very possibly BA's guy, and I think that we will draft a QB as well.

Mike Vick---I could see BA being interested if Vick hits the market. Vick has the type of arm that BA covets, plus his mobility is a real bonus. Age and injuries, however, have to be a concern---that, and what kind of money he will command.

Ryan Mallett---the #38 pick would likely do it---if so, he would have one year left on his rookie contract, thus he would be very cap friendly this year and the team could tender him at a high compensation price the following year if it decided to wait another year to sign him to a big contract. Mallett has the arm that fits BA's offense to a tee---and he would be another Big Ben type project for BA, only after spending two years as an apprentice to Tom Brady. I think one could make a strong case that Mallett is better than any QB in this current draft class. So to get him at #38 and be able to draft one of the BPAs at #7 could be a win-win. Saw too that the Patriots just signed Mike Kafka---and the speculation is that Matt Cassell might return if the scenario presents itself. I think they will listen to offers for Mallett.

Jason Campbell---new WR coach Daryll Drake just spend the last year with Campbell in Chicago. There's still a good deal of upside and potential in Campbell, especially if he gets with the right coaches and in the right system. I think there could be some genuine interest in him. He's got the right physical tools for BA's offense...but needs to light a fire under butt. Not sure if it is in his personality, though.

Josh Freeman---here's a young gun who could be had, imo, for the right price. He's coming off two lackluster seasons---by his standards:

2011: 346/551/3,592/62.8%/6.5/16/22/74.6

2012: 306/558/4,065/54.8%/7.3/27/17/81.6

As compared to his best year:

2010: 291/474/3,451/61.4%/7.3/25/6/95.9 (also had 364 yds. rushing, 5.4 ave.)

Freeman has one year left on his current deal at $8.4M (cap).

The Bucs have said they do not intend to extend his contract at this point.

If the Bucs make a move on a QB---I think Freeman could be in play for the #38 pick. There is a lot of upside here. Very intriguing upside because of his physical tools.

Drew Stanton---BA knows him well and he knows BA's system well. If BA likes this young man's potential, one would think he would sign Stanton. He has good size and strength---and is at the very least a good #2.

Chase Daniel---comes from an offensive system that is very similar to BA's. Daniel is on the short side (6-0, 225), but he's accurate and is a feisty competitor. The question is how effective a deep passer he would be. He had plenty of practice at that in the Saints' system.

Nick Foles---I know, another trade for a Philly QB? The question is---is Foles a fit in Chip Kelly's offense---if Kelly has other ideas then he could be persuaded to trade Foles. Todd Bowles saw him every day---wonder what his thoughts, as a DC, are. When I watched him, I was very impressed---he stood tall in the pocket and threw very catchable passes with zip when needed and touch when needed. He also looked poised in the red zone. This kid looks like a very good fit in BA's offense.

Geno Smith---wonder how teams view him now, after his lackluster finish to his season, his poor bowl performance, albeit in inclement weather, and his declining to play at the Senior Bowl. C'mon, man! If Von Miller can play in the Senior Bowl, why can't you? Smith has the tools---he's got size, arm strength, touch and leadership ability, but he's a reluctant runner and he's more of spread QB than traditional one. If he drops to #7, which I think is very possible, he could be the choice---but, for some reason I just don't see it---there's something lacking and I can't quite put my finger on it.

Mike Glennon---yes, the arm strength is there, and his numbers playing under HC Tom O'Brien and OC Dana Bible were even better than Matt Ryan's when he was coached by the same duo at BC. But, Glennon is no Matt Ryan. He's nowhere near the leader that Ryan is---nor is he even remotely as tough. The arm does get you excited though---but then you look at his string bean frame and his propensity to throw off the back foot and you wonder if he could hold up at all under pressure in the NFL.

Tyler Wilson---small hands, lack of elite arm strength and durability issues are a concern---but what you have to love about him is his fiery approach, his leadership prowess and his competitiveness. He reminds me a lot of Matt Hasselbeck---physically and temperament-wise...which is why I give him a good chance to make a name for himself in the NFL. But, like Hasselbeck, Wilson looks like he will have a hard time holding up physically, although, like Hass (who wrote the book on it), he will play in pain.

Matt Barkley---I think that if you put him in the Patriots' system he would thrive. He's no Tom Brady---don't get me wrong. But, he's smart and can exploit the middle of the field with accurate, well-timed and well-placed passes. Ask him to make the long sideline throws and that is asking for trouble. In this day and age, unless you are the Patriots, you would prefer a QB, like a Joe Flacco, for example, who can beat you over the middle and up the sidelines.

Ryan Nassib---he strikes me as a QB who thrives on good coaching and preparation. It therefore does not surprise me in the least that he was not tearing it up at the Senior Bowl in practices this week. I think NFL coaches will love this kid---because he will execute a game plan and make smart decisions. He's got a good arm---not great---his delivery is little long, imo, and needs to be shortened and quickened, but he is tough as nails. I think he will eventually be a starter, probably in Buffalo if Doug Marrone can get his hands on him.

Zac Dysert---what i love about him is he works well under pressure. He can escape pressure when he has to---and he throws very well on the run. He lacks polish at this point---but I think he can be an NFL starter after a year or two of coaching preparation.

Landry Jones---kind of reminds me in a little of Drew Bledsoe---good arm, solid guy and leader---but not particularly strong under pressure.

Tyler Bray---same as Bledsoe/Jones---only better arm than Jones.

E.J. Manuel---has all the physcial tools, but not the head.

Sean Renfree---someone mentioned him as a later round prospect for the Cardinals and I concur. He helped put Duke football back on the map, and while he needs to get stronger physically, he's got a very good arm and superb touch.

I would be very interested to know what your choices would be. if you were AB, SK and TM, what would you do?

Concerning Wilson and his toughness. He spent much of last year on his back as the Arkansas defensive line was as bad as the Cards. He would get up hit after hit and still stand in there and take the hits in order to get the pass off. Tough should be his middle name. The previous season he was all everything when we had a good team to back him up including 3 now NFL receivers. Most Arkansas fans thought he was better than Mallet as he backed up Mallet. Most of the fans around here view his arm as very strong and his leadership and smarts is unquestionable. Whether he meets the NFL standards is a question to be answered. Around here we think if the Cards do not take him Jerry Jones will as Jerry is more than just familiar with him and his QB will have an expiring contract after this year. I still think Wilson will be one of the first two QBs taken and go in round 1. He trained under Bobby Petrino in a pro type offense and played last year with a caretaker HC when Petrino was fired just before spring training which sure did not help him or the team. He remains my favorite QB in the draft but may not be worthy of a #7 pick. I just do not know how the pros will view him. I cannot imagine him not going in round 1. He will be in the NFL next year. You can take that to the bank. I sure would hate to see us pass on him and then find him starting for some other NFL team next year. Who ever we take will likely be a surprise to me.
 

john h

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Geno Smith won't even be there when we pick in the first round.

I think only one QB will be taken before it is our turn. Smith maybe? I just do not know. If it were me I still take Wilson but then I am a homer.
 

desertdawg

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I disagree. It took a 2nd rounder and DRC to get Kevin Kolb, who was a much worse prospect than Josh Freeman.
If Freeman's team is ready to give up on him, I think it knocks his trade value down some. Floyd and our first is just too much, they'd have to cough up something to make it happen. Floyd is unproven, but we can spin that with the jokers we had QBing last year. I don't know what kind of numbers or years Freeman has on his contract but I imagine that would be a factor as well.

Bottom line is I don't want to miss out on our O-line pick in the first round unless Geno is there. Colts won like 2 games after Peyton split, I kind of expect us to just do slightly better. With all the changes on both sides of the ball, the first half of our season will be brutal to a lot of fans, but it's the first step in a new direction so I'm planning for it. Fairweather fans are going to have a ton to bitch about at first, saying we made some wrong moves, and that our record shows it (gonna be fun). But much like our defense struggled at first with Horton, I hope we will start looking like an NFL team somewhere around halfway in.
 

Totally_Red

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I've never understood this logic. You get one guy per round. One. If your guy is there when you pick, and you know he will not be there 32 picks later, you take him. The whole idea of calling it a reach when it's clearly the player you want is ridiculous.

That's ok in the 6th or 7th round, but in the first round you end up with Levi Brown instead of Adrian Peterson. The first round should be about value not position or need IMO.

It just so happens that the value at the top of this draft is defenders and offensive linemen, not quarterbacks. In that case we probably take an O-linemen.
 

john h

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It should be fascinating to see what BA, SK and TM have in mind for the QB position.

Having spent a good deal of time evaluating the potential QB options, I thought I would offer my thoughts---as in gut impulse thoughts.

Kevin Kolb---can't believe he would even be a consideration based on money (even at a reduced salary) and durability issues. He just doesn't inspire a lot of confidence or the thought of dependability and stability.

John Skelton---low salary and not a lot of high expectations at this point. But, I am especially curious to see what the coaching changes will do for him. Obviously he needs coaching. If he fails with this braintrust, the book will be closed on him. Still love the big arm and the toughness in the pocket---and if you go back and watch how he beat the 49ers in 2011, those are the types of staple intermediate to deep passes that BA loves. For that reason I give him a chance.

Ryan Lindley---what I would like to do is erase the slate with him because he clearly wasn't ready to compete in regular season games and still wont be a for a year or two, if he can hold on to the #3 job. He has the arm---but the head?

Brian Hoyer---he is a viable #2, imo, and could emerge as the stopgap #1 if no one else does. Not even sure, however, if the team intends to re-sign him.

Alex Smith---saw a 49ers' fan blog where he said, "our worst fear is him going to Arizona." But---it's not going to happen because Smith has superb trade value (@ $7M per year for the next two years), and the 49ers are not going to trade him to the Cardinals. I think he will be traded to the Jags (#33 pick) or the Chiefs (#34 pick)...or to the Browns for their 3rd rounder (#68) and their 2nd rounder in 2014.

Matt Moore---intriguing option---has had some solid success and was very well coached last year by Joe Philbin. I think he is very possibly BA's guy, and I think that we will draft a QB as well.

Mike Vick---I could see BA being interested if Vick hits the market. Vick has the type of arm that BA covets, plus his mobility is a real bonus. Age and injuries, however, have to be a concern---that, and what kind of money he will command.

Ryan Mallett---the #38 pick would likely do it---if so, he would have one year left on his rookie contract, thus he would be very cap friendly this year and the team could tender him at a high compensation price the following year if it decided to wait another year to sign him to a big contract. Mallett has the arm that fits BA's offense to a tee---and he would be another Big Ben type project for BA, only after spending two years as an apprentice to Tom Brady. I think one could make a strong case that Mallett is better than any QB in this current draft class. So to get him at #38 and be able to draft one of the BPAs at #7 could be a win-win. Saw too that the Patriots just signed Mike Kafka---and the speculation is that Matt Cassell might return if the scenario presents itself. I think they will listen to offers for Mallett.

Jason Campbell---new WR coach Daryll Drake just spend the last year with Campbell in Chicago. There's still a good deal of upside and potential in Campbell, especially if he gets with the right coaches and in the right system. I think there could be some genuine interest in him. He's got the right physical tools for BA's offense...but needs to light a fire under butt. Not sure if it is in his personality, though.

Josh Freeman---here's a young gun who could be had, imo, for the right price. He's coming off two lackluster seasons---by his standards:

2011: 346/551/3,592/62.8%/6.5/16/22/74.6

2012: 306/558/4,065/54.8%/7.3/27/17/81.6

As compared to his best year:

2010: 291/474/3,451/61.4%/7.3/25/6/95.9 (also had 364 yds. rushing, 5.4 ave.)

Freeman has one year left on his current deal at $8.4M (cap).

The Bucs have said they do not intend to extend his contract at this point.

If the Bucs make a move on a QB---I think Freeman could be in play for the #38 pick. There is a lot of upside here. Very intriguing upside because of his physical tools.

Drew Stanton---BA knows him well and he knows BA's system well. If BA likes this young man's potential, one would think he would sign Stanton. He has good size and strength---and is at the very least a good #2.

Chase Daniel---comes from an offensive system that is very similar to BA's. Daniel is on the short side (6-0, 225), but he's accurate and is a feisty competitor. The question is how effective a deep passer he would be. He had plenty of practice at that in the Saints' system.

Nick Foles---I know, another trade for a Philly QB? The question is---is Foles a fit in Chip Kelly's offense---if Kelly has other ideas then he could be persuaded to trade Foles. Todd Bowles saw him every day---wonder what his thoughts, as a DC, are. When I watched him, I was very impressed---he stood tall in the pocket and threw very catchable passes with zip when needed and touch when needed. He also looked poised in the red zone. This kid looks like a very good fit in BA's offense.

Geno Smith---wonder how teams view him now, after his lackluster finish to his season, his poor bowl performance, albeit in inclement weather, and his declining to play at the Senior Bowl. C'mon, man! If Von Miller can play in the Senior Bowl, why can't you? Smith has the tools---he's got size, arm strength, touch and leadership ability, but he's a reluctant runner and he's more of spread QB than traditional one. If he drops to #7, which I think is very possible, he could be the choice---but, for some reason I just don't see it---there's something lacking and I can't quite put my finger on it.

Mike Glennon---yes, the arm strength is there, and his numbers playing under HC Tom O'Brien and OC Dana Bible were even better than Matt Ryan's when he was coached by the same duo at BC. But, Glennon is no Matt Ryan. He's nowhere near the leader that Ryan is---nor is he even remotely as tough. The arm does get you excited though---but then you look at his string bean frame and his propensity to throw off the back foot and you wonder if he could hold up at all under pressure in the NFL.

Tyler Wilson---small hands, lack of elite arm strength and durability issues are a concern---but what you have to love about him is his fiery approach, his leadership prowess and his competitiveness. He reminds me a lot of Matt Hasselbeck---physically and temperament-wise...which is why I give him a good chance to make a name for himself in the NFL. But, like Hasselbeck, Wilson looks like he will have a hard time holding up physically, although, like Hass (who wrote the book on it), he will play in pain.

Matt Barkley---I think that if you put him in the Patriots' system he would thrive. He's no Tom Brady---don't get me wrong. But, he's smart and can exploit the middle of the field with accurate, well-timed and well-placed passes. Ask him to make the long sideline throws and that is asking for trouble. In this day and age, unless you are the Patriots, you would prefer a QB, like a Joe Flacco, for example, who can beat you over the middle and up the sidelines.

Ryan Nassib---he strikes me as a QB who thrives on good coaching and preparation. It therefore does not surprise me in the least that he was not tearing it up at the Senior Bowl in practices this week. I think NFL coaches will love this kid---because he will execute a game plan and make smart decisions. He's got a good arm---not great---his delivery is little long, imo, and needs to be shortened and quickened, but he is tough as nails. I think he will eventually be a starter, probably in Buffalo if Doug Marrone can get his hands on him.

Zac Dysert---what i love about him is he works well under pressure. He can escape pressure when he has to---and he throws very well on the run. He lacks polish at this point---but I think he can be an NFL starter after a year or two of coaching preparation.

Landry Jones---kind of reminds me in a little of Drew Bledsoe---good arm, solid guy and leader---but not particularly strong under pressure.

Tyler Bray---same as Bledsoe/Jones---only better arm than Jones.

E.J. Manuel---has all the physcial tools, but not the head.

Sean Renfree---someone mentioned him as a later round prospect for the Cardinals and I concur. He helped put Duke football back on the map, and while he needs to get stronger physically, he's got a very good arm and superb touch.

I would be very interested to know what your choices would be. if you were AB, SK and TM, what would you do?

Kolb has been around long enough to come to conclusion on him. Six years should tell us all we need to know. Lets not compound the situation. We are not going to win this year anyway so now is as good as any time to divest ourselves of Kevin and take the big hit. Who ever made the Kolb decision to start with I pray he was let go with the many departures we had so we never make one that bad again.
 

DoTheDew

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What I see here:

This draft is not a good place to go for a QB. Not in 1st round anyway. Everyone has big question marks.

FA at best is going to give us a stop gap. We aren't getting to the SB with any of those guys but we might be able to go 9-7 with a few of them.

Kolb, Skelton, Lindley, Hoyer? Yuck.

Long story short: we aren't fixing the QB position this year. At best we're putting a band-aid out there. Maybe we draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd and get lucky with him, but we'll have to develop the guy instead of expecting him to start right away.

It's a shame. The last 2 years were loaded with QB talent in the draft and somewhat in FA. We went all in on Kolb instead of hedging our bets. Lesson learned. It's time for the Pete Carroll approach: if at first you don't find a good QB, try try again.
 
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WildBB

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This draft is not a good place to go for a QB. Not in 1st round anyway. Everyone has big question marks.

FA at best is going to give us a stop gap. We aren't getting to the SB with any of those guys but we might be able to go 9-7 with a few of them.

Kolb, Skelton, Lindley, Hoyer? Yuck.

Long story short: we aren't fixing the QB position this year. At best we're putting a band-aid out there. Maybe we draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd and get lucky with him, but we'll have to develop the guy instead of expecting him to start right away.

It's a shame. The last 2 years were loaded with QB talent in the draft and somewhat in FA. We went all in on Kolb instead of hedging our bets. Lesson learned. It's time for the Pete Carroll approach: if at first you don't find a good QB, try try again.

That's what I think. We'll have to draft one in the 2nd - 4th and let him develop for a year +. Only guys I'd take in the 2nd are Wilson, Glennon and probably Barkley. If one of them are there, then I take that chance, mtl.

Otherwise just wait it out. 3rd, 4th or 5th Rd., if that.

We'll have to find two vets that can lead us for this season at least.
 

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