the real Coach Whis offensive philosophy

[football karma]

Since the day he was named as head coach, there has been a constant in describing Coach W's offensive style: he wants to bring that physical, Pittsburgh run-first offense to the Cardinals.

Yet -- history has shown he seems far more willing to get back in shotgun and wing it. This has been explained as Coach W simply tailoring the offense to the available talent: Warner, Fitz, Boldin, etc

Yet -- last year when that situation screamed "run-first" -- pretty much the same philosophy held true.

Now -- I come across this little tidbit from Peter King:

And for those who've wondered why in the world the Cards would take another receiver with so many holes on the roster, remember this: As Dez Bryant free-falled last year, the Cardinals seriously considered trying to run up into the late-first round area to try to get him.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/04/24/mmqb/index.html#ixzz1KYazGPHH


I have now officially decided that getting back in shotgun and winging it 65% of the time is where Coach W's heart is at. Lets just accept it and view moves through that lens.

As a result, I also just moved AJ Green into the list of possibilities at #5 -- who knows, maybe right behind Von Miller and ahead of Patrick Peterson.

BTW: heard Dave Pasch on the radio last week. ( I subscribe to the theory that with the Cardinals, they will tell you what they will do in the draft via their media proxies, of which Pasch is one). He threw out this: dont rule out AJ Green as a choice if their top defensive player isn't there.

 

[kerouac9]

Go back and look at the first handful of games when #7 was the starting quarterback, and you'll see that the pass-first philosophy wasn't instituted under Warner. We were winging the ball around when #7 was the starting quarterback and early in games as well. I was surprised to find this; it seems like the Pittsburgh philosophy is not necessarily in Whis's DNA.

Also, don't listen to Peter King. We drafted in the late-first round last year. Why would we have to "run up" to get him? We drafted two picks after Bryant was taken. That has all the hallmarks of a remarkably stupid smokescreen. We were prepared to take Daryl Washington 26th overall but interested in trading up for Dez Bryant? Give me a break.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Supposidely Whiz and Russ Grimm are friends.....but do they talk ?

Cause when I look at our offensive line, I see run, not pass.

Whiz's drafting, roster, and rhetoric do not match what he does on game day.

Seriously, why draft Beanie Wells, and Levi Brown when you know you want to pass 1st ?

Why do our TE's suck so bad when we are pass first ?

How do you justify getting rid of Boldin if we are pass first ?

How do you NOT bring in Marc Bulger last year if everything revolves around the pass ?

Why bring in Alan Faneca last year if we are pass first ?

Just flippin' silly to me.

 

[Mulli]

Cards need to fix the defense before they are run-first. Even then they should pass first. Just maybe not all the time.

 

[Duckjake]

Go back and look at the first handful of games when #7 was the starting quarterback, and you'll see that the pass-first philosophy wasn't instituted under Warner. We were winging the ball around when #7 was the starting quarterback and early in games as well. I was surprised to find this; it seems like the Pittsburgh philosophy is not necessarily in Whis's DNA.

Also, don't listen to Peter King. We drafted in the late-first round last year. Why would we have to "run up" to get him? We drafted two picks after Bryant was taken. That has all the hallmarks of a remarkably stupid smokescreen. We were prepared to take Daryl Washington 26th overall but interested in trading up for Dez Bryant? Give me a break.

Not so far-fetched given the Cardinals history. The Bidwills LOVE Wide Receivers. Sonny Randle, Bobby Joe Conrad, Mel Gray, Roy Green, David Boston, Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin. They've traded first round picks for Wide Receivers twice. Rob Moore and Randall Thrill Hill.

Meanwhile at running back: John David Crow, Terry Metcalf and OJ Anderson and ????

Stump Mitchell was a 9th round draft pick!

Bill Sr. was so upset at getting talked into taking Hearst and Jones that he got them out of town as soon as possible. Same thing with Metcalf.

CKW is only doing what the Bidwills want. The Cards have been a pass first team forever.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Not so far-fetched given the Cardinals history. The Bidwills LOVE Wide Receivers. Sonny Randle, Bobby Joe Conrad, Mel Gray, Roy Green, David Boston, Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin. They've traded first round picks for Wide Receivers twice. Rob Moore and Randall Thrill Hill.

Meanwhile at running back: John David Crow, Terry Metcalf and OJ Anderson and ????

Stump Mitchell was a 9th round draft pick!

Bill Sr. was so upset at getting talked into taking Hearst and Jones that he got them out of town as soon as possible. Same thing with Metcalf.

CKW is only doing what the Bidwills want. The Cards have been a pass first team forever.

Frank Sanders is hurt at his omission.

 

[Duckjake]

Frank Sanders is hurt at his omission.

Yes I know I should have included first down Frank. Thought about going back and editing. Has there ever been a WR who could make amazingly impossible catches and then drop a pass thrown right to him like Frank?

Also let's look at other 2nd tier Cardinal WR's Ricky Proehl, Pat Tilley, and J.T. Smith who led the NFL in receptions and yards in 1987.

Just a bunch of WRs we can brag about. Meanwhile we have guys like Leland McElroy and Anthony Thompson and LeShon Johnson at RB.

The first year in Arizona JT Smith gets named to the pro bowl and our leading rusher is Earl Farrell, a FB!

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I could live with a WR combo of Green and Fitz. That would mean saying good bye to Breaston, but realistically, Breaston isn't in the same league, talent-wise, as Green.

 

[splitsecond]

Let's also not forget that one of our most heralded backs (albeit a FB) was heralded because of his receiving game. Add Larry Centers to that WR list.

Which on a side note really makes me think that the cards will make a real push for Le'Ron McClain once the labor situation is straightened out.

 

[crisper57]

I think it is different circumstances. First, if you have Kurt Warner, Fitz, and Boldin on your roster, why would you consider the run first?

When Warner retired, I think the plan was probably to run first and take pressure off of our QB. I don't think anyone counted on our D being so bad, that we'd have to play catch-up for 3/4's of the game, which dictates abandoning the run.

If we have a D that keeps us in games, and a QB that can at least keep our opponents honest, I do think Whiz would prefer a run-first mentality.

Like I said, he has deferred to cirucumstance up to this point. It may have nothing to do with his overall mentality.

 

[football karma]

Also, don't listen to Peter King. We drafted in the late-first round last year. Why would we have to "run up" to get him? We drafted two picks after Bryant was taken. That has all the hallmarks of a remarkably stupid smokescreen. We were prepared to take Daryl Washington 26th overall but interested in trading up for Dez Bryant? Give me a break.

so you are guaranteeing that the Cardinals weren't considering trading up ahead of Dallas to get Dez Bryant?

 

[Mulli]

so you are guaranteeing that the Cardinals weren't considering trading up ahead of Dallas to get Dez Bryant?

I guarantee that.

 

[JeffGollin]

Wiz's True Offensive Philosophy?

"Live off the land."

Use what the FO gave you and build around that.

Until Warner was established as our starter, we were not a run & gun football team. When he replaced Leinart late in one game, he ran the vertical "no huddle" to perfection and everything changed after that.

After the draft and the lockout, he'll take a look at what we have and tailor his offense accordingly.

It's kind of like the early days when we ran a hybrid defense because we didn't have the guys who could perfectly execute the 3-4.

 

[Duckjake]

I don't think anyone counted on our D being so bad, that we'd have to play catch-up for 3/4's of the game,

I did. And so did a few others. We had far too many Denny Green vs the Vikings games last season. 13 carries vs Atlanta. 13 carries against the 4and9ers.

Also 24 carries for 41 yards vs NO and 21 carries for 53 yards vs the Vikings didn't help our rushing numbers any.

Also how far behind the Rams were we in the season opener that we had to throw the ball FORTY-ONE times?

We have to face up to the fact that the team just packed up and went home after the Farve Fiasco in Minnesota and only woke up to hammer a pitiful Broncos team and to barely beat a hated rival in Dallas.

Now for the change that is to come watch for my COACH DREAD THREAD!

 

[conraddobler]

Whiz brought in DA to light up the sky.

This has discredited Whiz IMO, others may differ but that stink bomb IMO is a very long lasting one.

After that fiasco I now have no idea what to expect but whatever it is I expect it to have less chance of success than before that fiasco happened.

So if we built the O line to be Sherman tanks I'd expect an all out air assault with wrong way Conway, cause that's how we role.

 

[Goldfield]

This is a pass first league.

But I think if our team was at all effective at running the ball we would call much more running plays.

I hate to admit it but I would be thrilled with AJ Green next to Fitz. That would only help what ever QB we go after(Kolb or Orton plz)

 

[kerouac9]

"Live off the land."

Use what the FO gave you and build around that.

Until Warner was established as our starter, we were not a run & gun football team. When he replaced Leinart late in one game, he ran the vertical "no huddle" to perfection and everything changed after that.

After the draft and the lockout, he'll take a look at what we have and tailor his offense accordingly.

It's kind of like the early days when we ran a hybrid defense because we didn't have the guys who could perfectly execute the 3-4.

That simply is a non-factual statement, Jeff. Go look at the game logs on NFL.com from #7's first days as a starter under Whis and you won't find us trying to establish a power running game. You'll see us passing on first and ten, second and five, etc., etc. It's nothing like the old Pittsburgh offense.

With a quarterback that apparently he had no faith in, with a team where he had the opportunity to establish a new identity, Ken Whisenhunt chose to come out passing. That's the long and the short of it.

 

[Duckjake]

Until Warner was established as our starter, we were not a run & gun football team.

The Cardinals threw the ball 670 times in 2005. They threw it 613 times in 1996. They've been a pass first team for as long as I can remember. They didn't call it Ground Coryell did they?

There was a Cardinal QB who only completed 45.8% of his passes and threw 22INTs to only 17 TD passes. All he did was win the Cards only NFL Championship. He was 3-14 with 2 INTs in the Championship game. Times have changed.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

with a team where he had the opportunity to establish a new identity

You honestly think we had the pieces last year to establish a potent running game?

 

[kerouac9]

You honestly think we had the pieces last year to establish a potent running game?

His first season here with Gandy, Lutui, Wells, James, etc.? That team wasn't expected to do much so much as change the identity of the team. Whis came out passing.

Last season, I think we had the backs and OL to have a potent running game, but Whis didn't believe in the running game from jump street. 20 total rushes against the Rams? First drive of the season and Whis calls passes of 5 of the first 8 plays (and Hightower coughs one up on the STL 22 on second and 8) and 7 of the first 12 plays (that's right--three straight passes following a blocked field goal on the Rams' possession).