The Real Losers?

conraddobler

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Real GM's dispense the justice, they are somewhat above the fray and can think about things for a day or two.

Then come in an mediate something like this like giving extra drills in practice or something, 200k is stupid, but DD was wrong, absolutely wrong. You have to win the battle and not lose the war here, he apologized, he needed to be taught a leason, but by hitting his wallet that hard the ultimate battle was lost.

This team does not need more of this crap, this is the modern NFL, that kind of thing doesn't work unless the team is winning. We can't be that hardass without some other reason to play here like um, WINNING.

You want to get that hard core on players then you have to win more games, it's as simple as that.

DD would of probably taken that fine if it came from the Patriots, not the Cardinals.
 

Russ Smith

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So is Dockett happier now that Skelton got to start again?

The players quit on the coach bcause they want a new coach, that's fine, NFL coaches always get fired.

But the offense killed this team and mainly the QB and OL. THere were no viable options at QB as yesterday proved yet again.
 

Darkside

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I just have one comment real quick:

I don't have a problem with anyone getting on Dock. You always obey your coach, that's just the way it is. And that should be the end of it but then I want to address this...

...the one time this year someone on our team gets called out and thrown under the bus it's Dockett for not wanting to quit. There's something fundamentally wrong with the underlying structure and philosophy of this team when that's the case. We baby these pathetic QB's all year in the press. NONE of them should be starting for a pro team and the org treats them with kid gloves. Yet Dockett doesn't want to roll over and he gets called out. And he's the only one all year.

Something wrong with that.
 

Russ Smith

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I just have one comment real quick:

I don't have a problem with anyone getting on Dock. You always obey your coach, that's just the way it is. And that should be the end of it but then I want to address this...

...the one time this year someone on our team gets called out and thrown under the bus it's Dockett for not wanting to quit. There's something fundamentally wrong with the underlying structure and philosophy of this team when that's the case. We baby these pathetic QB's all year in the press. NONE of them should be starting for a pro team and the org treats them with kid gloves. Yet Dockett doesn't want to roll over and he gets called out. And he's the only one all year.

Something wrong with that.

The reason IMO is that for the most part the Qb's aren't simply refusing to do what they're supposed to do. they're making mistakes yes but they're not intentionally running bad plays or not running the play sent in.

I'm also going to assume this isn't the first issue Dockett has had this year if Horton is really the one who wanted to fine him that much .My guess is Dockett has had a prior histor of issues with Horton and this was just the last straw?

It does look bad and he probably will be demanding a trade but you can't be an insubordinate and that's apparently what he did.
 

Buckybird

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THere were no viable options at QB as yesterday proved yet again.

And will not be again in 2013 unless the Cards unload lots of draft picks for a vet, or the same for a totally unproven rook who's going to be distinctly more risky than Luck or RGIII. Stupid Cardinals...they should've unloaded 3 #1s & 3 #2s last year for the possibility one of those QBs, just like I said!

But wait...the savior Horton may step up next into the firing line with a a cig & a blindfold for his shot at Cardinal immortality. Good luck Ray, you're going to need it without a great QB to lead the way. Horton if hired, is already behind the 8ball with the QB problems the Cards have.
 

TRW

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The reason IMO is that for the most part the Qb's aren't simply refusing to do what they're supposed to do. they're making mistakes yes but they're not intentionally running bad plays or not running the play sent in.

I'm also going to assume this isn't the first issue Dockett has had this year if Horton is really the one who wanted to fine him that much .My guess is Dockett has had a prior histor of issues with Horton and this was just the last straw?

It does look bad and he probably will be demanding a trade but you can't be an insubordinate and that's apparently what he did.

Russ, I think you are spot on here. The insubordination and spitting were probably the proverbial "straw that broke the camel's back" here.

That being said, the fine was still way over the top IMO. Sit him the first quarter of the game and let it go. Making an example of DD and embarrasing him was not a mature, wise decision on the coaches part. Rod Graves or someone should have intervened and brought it to a more reasonable level.

But, common sense is not an attribute that shows up in the Cardinal MO very often.
 

Russ Smith

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And will not be again in 2013 unless the Cards unload lots of draft picks for a vet, or the same for a totally unproven rook who's going to be distinctly more risky than Luck or RGIII. Stupid Cardinals...they should've unloaded 3 #1s & 3 #2s last year for the possibility one of those QBs, just like I said!

But wait...the savior Horton may step up next into the firing line with a a cig & a blindfold for his shot at Cardinal immortality. Good luck Ray, you're going to need it without a great QB to lead the way. Horton if hired, is already behind the 8ball with the QB problems the Cards have.

Agreed there is no obvious solution at QB. I'm just pointing out the idea that the players were unhappy that Skelton was benched isn't supported by any evidence at all. Where's the quotes from players? Where's the "unnamed source" in the lockerroom stuff? We see that all the time in the NFL when someone gets benched, we didn't see it with Skelton.

And I don't recall seeing a lot of complaining about Dockett being disciplined either. My guess is team knows what happened and they weren't all that unhappy with him being disciplined.

Mitch is right that the team is no longer buying into Whiz, completely agree, but that's because IMO we have a situation where the D knows the O let them down all year and Whiz is an O coach. It's not because Whiz benched Skelton or fined Dockett.

Sketon and Lindley combined have 320 pass attempts, TWO touchdowns, 14 INT's(9 of the INT's by Skelton). That is the reason the offense is so bad, the OL forced us to go to a shorter passing attack and the 2 QB's who played most of the games in that attack are unable to complete passes at a high enough rate to make it work.

I just hope we're able to find a QB somehow because even I have no faith in Kolb playing for very long without getting hurt but I sure have no faith in Skelton and Lindley is clearly not ready to be anywhere near the field in games.
 

Buckybird

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Sketon and Lindley combined have 320 pass attempts, TWO touchdowns, 14 INT's(9 of the INT's by Skelton).

That is Absofreakinglutely staggering!!! :(
That is worse than Jamarcus Russell bad! Wow
And to think both are probably as inaccurate as Tim Teblow. Lol
I never ever thought I wold see Cardinals QB play worse than DA, but it's a reality.

All I did yesterday was laugh at every freaking play & folly...it's the only way to keep my sanity. :biglaugh:
 

Russ Smith

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Sketon and Lindley combined have 320 pass attempts, TWO touchdowns, 14 INT's(9 of the INT's by Skelton).

That is Absofreakinglutely staggering!!! :(
That is worse than Jamarcus Russell bad! Wow
And to think both are probably as inaccurate as Tim Teblow. Lol
I never ever thought I wold see Cardinals QB play worse than DA, but it's a reality.

All I did yesterday was laugh at every freaking play & folly...it's the only way to keep my sanity. :biglaugh:

Skelton's third(?) int was the one that made me laugh. The one up the right sideline into double coverage where he telegraphed it so much the DB on Roberts was even coming off his man to come over and be the 3rd guy. He hit Sherman in stride, the WR(Fitz?) never had a chance and looked stunned that the ball was even thrown. The look on Skeltons' face was priceless it was like he was saying nobody was open so I punted.

And people on the game thread were making that exact joke at least it was like a punt.

I barely watched the start of the 3rd quarter and then took a nap.
 

Duckjake

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It is just ridiculous. Skelton stinks it up so the Cards go to Lindley who promptly throws 4 interceptions against the Rams and amazingly misses a pass identical to the one that got Skelton benched so the Cards go back to Skelton who promptly throws 4 interceptions.

It's like a movie that is so bad it is unintentionally hilarious.
 

Buckybird

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Skelton's third(?) int was the one that made me laugh. The one up the right sideline into double coverage where he telegraphed it so much the DB on Roberts was even coming off his man to come over and be the 3rd guy. He hit Sherman in stride, the WR(Fitz?) never had a chance and looked stunned that the ball was even thrown. The look on Skeltons' face was priceless it was like he was saying nobody was open so I punted.

And people on the game thread were making that exact joke at least it was like a punt.

I barely watched the start of the 3rd quarter and then took a nap.

Yes that was comical! If we don't make " come on man tonight" I'll be disappointed :D
 

john h

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Imagine what it would be like to be Darnell Dockett right now.

Throughout this season and last, the bright spot of the Cardinals has been the play of its defense...a defense that in essence has to try to throw something close to a shutout in order for the team to win.

Imagine too the pounding he has taken in order to maintain the high level of defensive effort and play.

Playing on the interior defensive line and getting double teamed practically every play is nothing short of a weekly bludgeoning.

Imagine how Dockett felt when his defense was drawing aces on the road versus the best team in the NFC---knowing that a great upset win stops the bleeding of a horrid 5 game losing streak and catapults the Cardinals right back into Wild Card contention at 5-5.

What could Dockett and his defensive mates been thinking when John Skelton was benched with the team up 13-3 for Ryan Lindley, a rookie QB who had never taken a snap in the NFL.

The thing is too---Skelton's previous three games weren't horrible, especially considering the numbers of drops and playing behind a makeshift offensive line:

10/21 @MIN: 26/36, 69.4%, 262 yards, 1/1 (TD/INT)

10/29 SFO: 32/52, 61.5%, 290 yards, 0/1

11/4 GBP: 23/46, 50.0%, 306 yards, 1/1

Completion Percentage Fact: Skelton has 2 of the top 3 best completion percentage games for the Cardinals this year.

Kevin Kolb's Completion percentages: 53.8, 56.0, 60.4, 70.8, 55.6

So---because Skelton missed a wide open Fitzgerald and Ken Whisenhunt decided at that moment in the Atlanta game that John Skelton could no longer be his QB, regardless of having just a rookie 6th rounder behind him---Darnell Dockett and the Cardinals' defense, despite creating double digit turnovers in 3 games in spectacular fashion---were the ones being punished the most.

That's just from a W/L scoreboard perspective.

But how about from a time on the field perspective.

Take a look at the Cardinals offensive possession versus the Jets---and pay close attention to the time elapsed of each possession:

Series 1: 6/33/2:47
Series 2: 4/8/1:51 (Wells takes a dive on a 4th and inches--after Rhodes' int)
Series 3: 3/7/1:31
Series 4: 3/3/0:40
Series 5: 3/1/0:38 (Jets interception)
Series 6: 3/5/0:49
Series 7: 10/61/2:31 (fake field goal for 40 yards)---end of half
____________________________________________________

Series 8: 3/3/1:21
Series 9: 3/7/1:28
Series 10: 3/-4/1:54
Series 11: 3/3/0:48
Series 12: 6/21/2:03
Series 13: 3/-5/1:10
____________________________________________________

Seeing as the defense is on the sidelines during the first drive---after their first series their time on the sidelines was an average of 1:20 of clock time the rest of the game.

Darnell Dockett had every right to be upset---

How can anyone look at how those series went and not conclude---it's time to bring Skelton back in---that is, if you really want to TRY to win the game---or give the team some HOPE.

And no, of course, as for Dockett, you can't go spitting at anyone, even if you are playing a barbaric sport where you have just spent the entire afternoon taking a pounding which you run back out to like dogs every 1:20 minutes of clock time---and despite all of that you are doing everything humanly possible to stop the other team and to win the game.

The problem is---as if often the case with anger---he took it out on the wrong guy. Rhodes just happened to be the messenger.

First---it might have been good to say something to Adrian Wilson---who did the unthinkable and the most irresponsible by recklessly jumping the snap on 3rd and 4 when the Jets were clearly just running to set up field goal position.

But, obviously, most of all, how about the head coach who was the real one who quit on Dockett and the entire team?

How about the head coach who is punishing everyone else on the team because he needs to prove to the world that John Skelton and his 8-8 with 6 4th quarter comeback wins doesn't deserve to play another snap?

The irony is that Dockett was upset because HE didn't want to quit...nor did he want anyone else on his defense to give the Jets an inch.

What one must wonder is---had the giving the other team a free TD option ever been explained and prepared for in practice?

That's a key question because---if the players aren't prepared for it, how is a Darnell Dockett going to process that instruction during a 35 second play clock at the end of game that he and his defense have busted their butts to win.

There's no question that Ray Horton made the right call---save a Jets' fumble, it was the ONLY way the Cardinals still had a chance to win.

But---what we fans do not know is whether this strategy had ever been taught and integrated into the game plans.

By virtue of Dockett's reaction, it would seem not.

Now Dockett is being fined six figures and he and the team are further punished by the added sanction of a "reduced role" versus arch-rival Seattle up in Seattle.

That's just great, isn't it?

I ask you---is Darnell Dockett the real loser here?

My own feeling is---while spitting in a teammate's face is egregious, no question, don't you want players who are so peed off at losing 8 straight games that they can't stand the thought of lying down and giving up another inch?

Darnell Dockett is a proven winner.

He has always been a major part of the solution---not the problem.

On the flip side, the head coach who quit on this team is going to pocket $5,500,000 next year to play golf.

The no-quit guy pays and the real quitter profits.

Such is the state of the 2012 Arizona Cardinals.

Mitch: What is done is done. The largest question now is what do we do going forward? Do we fire Whiz before the end of the season? Do we fire Graves? What should the Cards game plan be now? Should Whiz be part of the planning process next year which should be going on now? That would be dumb. Same with Graves? We meed to hire the brightest football minds we can find to run this team. As it is now we will not be able to keep any FA for some time not matter what we offer them if they are NFL type players. How does he team get into the situation the Cards are in? How do we end up with 3 QBs that are the ones we have? I think nearly everyone on the board thought we should have had at least one experienced backup to start the year.
 
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