The revolving roster

[Joe Mama]

The problem with this issue is that the stats don't really back me up. However, if you go back through each of the regular game threads I think you'd be surprised how often the board almost unanimously agreed that Nash was playing poorly. I'm not just talking about the 2 guys that hate Nash either.

When his injuries did not bother him, he was terrific. However, I've never seen him struggle like this in previous years other than perhaps one year in Dallas. I really believe his body is breaking down and if we don't give him a LOT of rest, he won't finish out this next season. Time will tell.

Steve

yeah, I will freely admit that until about the middle of March I would have the games on TV, but I was not entirely focused on them because that is heavy work time. I do remember games where he made more mistakes down the stretch. However we would not have been in many of those games if he had not played well during the first three quarters, and again he was playing injured. The guy has been healthy for the last 6-7 seasons and keeps himself in incredible shape. With Turkuglo here to help facilitate the offense the hope is also that he will not have to do quite as much work and we can use him off the ball. Also, I think we all want to see more Dragic which should mean more rest for Nash.

Joe

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I could very well see Steve Nash playing at a high level until he is 40 years old.

I agree, based on his conditioning and performance, there is a good chance of this happening.

Unfortunately, I also wouldn't be surprised at all if he broke down in the next couple years. Despite all his conditioning and training, he takes as much abuse and strain as anyone in the game. He's been held together with duct tape and glue, and his chronic injuries are just a tweak away.

Ideally at this point, a more equitable distribution of minutes with Goran will ensure a high level of performance and benefit both of them, with Steve eventually assuming a bench role in his twilight years ala Stockton.

 

[Irish]

I love Nash and get concerned about him. His back is a problem no matter what he does,and it doesn't sseem likely to go away. Sadly, it is no secret, so no one will pay for a guy with back problems. There is no point in trying to made a trade if nobody is offering anything.

The second problem is Nash's defense. He is just not quick enough to stay in front of people. Some teams like Warriors feel he's the Sun's weakest link. During the regular season this is not a huge problem but in the playoffs it is. When teams are constructed to exploit this weakness, it is hard to make up the problem.

The sad p;art is that there is no point in getting rid of him if there is not someone else as long as Nash is better than those people being considered.

 

[mojorizen7]

It seems your premise, based upon what I can tell, is the Suns have not won a championship because of Nash. I contend the Suns have not won a championship because their frontline was not good enough.

Interesting comment. Why do you think it was the frontline that was possibly the reason for Nash's teams coming up short of the ultimate prize?

 

[Chaplin]

Interesting comment. Why do you think it was the frontline that was possibly the reason for Nash's teams coming up short of the ultimate prize?

6 years and you're really asking that question, Mojo?

 

[Joe Mama]

Interesting comment. Why do you think it was the frontline that was possibly the reason for Nash's teams coming up short of the ultimate prize?

you're kidding, right?

Joe

 

[mojorizen7]

you're kidding, right?

Joe

I'd just like to hear someone articulate the answer.
Anyone?

 

[rordog]

Last years team just had such good chemistry I really wished that Stoud stayed in Phoenix, they would have gotten as close maybe closer to Nash's first Finals/ring... this years team will still make a playoff push and I hope it's a deep one!

 

[Bufalay]

Notice anything consistent about the above...

Amare?

 

[Mainstreet]

Amare?

Yes, Amare was there and I give him credit. However, the Suns made it to the Western Conference Finals in 2005-06 without him due to micro-fracture surgery. Also the Suns were able to keep on course when Amare was out a number of games due to an eye injury in the 2008-2009 season. Nash is the rudder to the Suns ship.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Even then what Nash has accomplished here laps the rest of the PG's that played here by a ton. Kidd, KJ, and others cant match Nash's team or individual accomplishments.

Its not even close.

whoa, whoa, whoa . . . "not even close?!?" i question either how old you are, or how much attention to paid to the suns pre-barkley. what kj meant to the suns was extremely important. he was part of a group that carried the suns out of a very dark time in our team's history and put the suns back on the map as a contender. it was his leadership, athleticism, and amazing pull up jumper that got a plucky team over on the lakers, a team that was widely considered better than them in terms of talent with a championship pedigree. kj may not have lead his squad to a championship, but he slayed a goliath (the lakers - something that nash couldn't do - the nash teams have always succumbed to the big bad bully on the block each year), and was a member of a team that played in the nba finals.

what nash has done here is truly epic. historic. i'll always love him. and he may be the greatest sun to date, but to say kj wasn't even close is just wrong (imho).

 

[Mainstreet]

what nash has done here is truly epic. historic. i'll always love him. and he may be the greatest sun to date, but to say kj wasn't even close is just wrong (imho).

KJ will always will be one of my favorite Suns as well. KJ literally gave up his body for the Suns on his slashes to the rim. I want to talk about Nash and KJ in the same breath... not divide them in Suns history.

 

[PHX04]

i still think KJ is Phoenix ALL TIME Sun...

you forgot
Kurt Thomas
Pat Burke, and his late game 3's

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Pat Burke, and his late game 3's

Send in the clown!

 

[mojorizen7]

Anyone who complains about the weaker frontlines the SUNS have rolled out since the Nash era began 6 yrs ago needs to understand that the vast majority of the frontline players were brought in because they complimented Nash very well offensively. If they didn't....they weren't here for very long.

The trend has continued this season.
IMO the SUNS aren't looking for more rebounding,defensive help up front unless an inexpensive opportunity comes a knocking.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Anyone who complains about the weaker frontlines the SUNS have rolled out since the Nash era began 6 yrs ago needs to understand that the vast majority of the frontline players were brought in because they complimented Nash very well offensively. If they didn't....they weren't here for very long.

The trend has continued this season.
IMO the SUNS aren't looking for more rebounding,defensive help up front unless an inexpensive opportunity comes a knocking.

Who cares if they say nice things about Nash. I want a big guy that bangs and can score on the move or with his back to the basket. You know, someone who could complement Nash.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

Anyone who complains about the weaker frontlines the SUNS have rolled out since the Nash era began 6 yrs ago needs to understand that the vast majority of the frontline players were brought in because they complimented Nash very well offensively. If they didn't....they weren't here for very long.

The trend has continued this season.
IMO the SUNS aren't looking for more rebounding,defensive help up front unless an inexpensive opportunity comes a knocking.

The problem is not Nash. Why do you persist. Good big men are known to play good offense and defense. If a player can get open, Nash will get him the ball. Nash made Amare look good. However, Nash wasn't even here when Amare was drafted so the Suns didn't draft Amare because of Nash.

If you want to blame someone, blame the Suns FO. Good big men do not grow on trees. Why must Nash be your scapegoat?

See Nash's Suns 2009-10 stats: 16.5 ppg, 11 assts, .507 FG%, 0.426 3p% and 0.938 FT%. He also played 81 games.

 

[Irish]

The Suns have a long history to drafting crappy bigs. Remember Bedfor: Gililliam? Big Jake? and trading for Hot Rod?

In the last two decades, the Suns have been drafting in the 20's most of the time. Lopez is the first promising CENTER the Suns have drafted in decades unless you imagine Amare was a center. I don't.

IMHO, KT as the best CENTER the Suns have had since the the early 90's. He was one of the few whose style as ideal for the playoffs.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The Suns have a long history to drafting crappy bigs. Remember Bedfor: Gililliam? Big Jake? and trading for Hot Rod?

Hot Rod was a very good big man, he just never got a chance to show it in Phoenix. I actually think if they had found that metal in his foot earlier it would have been the trade that put us over the top.

Steve

 

[mojorizen7]

The problem is not Nash. Why do you persist. Good big men are known to play good offense and defense. If a player can get open, Nash will get him the ball. Nash made Amare look good. However, Nash wasn't even here when Amare was drafted so the Suns didn't draft Amare because of Nash.

If you want to blame someone, blame the Suns FO. Good big men do not grow on trees. Why must Nash be your scapegoat?

See Nash's Suns 2009-10 stats: 16.5 ppg, 11 assts, .507 FG%, 0.426 3p% and 0.938 FT%. He also played 81 games.

The problem for what exactly? I'm merely stating that the personnel(especially the guys up front) that has been aquired during the Nash era have been brought in with primarily one thing in mind....players that will compliment Nash's gifts....which are players with speed and the ability to hit jump shots.
Do you deny this?

If so how can fans turn around and say that we're not getting enough size,muscle,rebounding and defense up front without recognizing the reasons behind this?
KT was a left field aquisition for the '07 team. What he brought to the team was much needed(i think we can agree on that right?)....but he surely didn't compliment what we were doing as a team. He wasn't a spot up shooter,he didn't run the floor particularly well and he wasn't a P&R option on offense. The one area KT did fit in well as a PF was that he didn't demand the ball in the post...which is an area where the Shaq aquisition wasn't kosher(obviously).

If you can get past your feelings that i'm blaming Nash for not winning titles(which i'm not necessarily) then you'd understand what i'm trying to say here Mainstreet.

I'm saying that if you want this team to even be remotely dominant in terms of scoring,rebounding,drawing consistent double teams in the post,around the basket defense etc...then we CANNOT continue to let the skills of our 37 yr old PG dictate how we choose our personnel(which i strongly belief has been the case here over the last 6 years). Actually i think its been a smart strategy....until a couple years ago.

So,when Nash DOES hang it up we're going to be staring at a team full of nothing but shooters at the 4 & 5 who:
a) can't go get their own shot without the master HOF'r at PG
b) cant rebound
c) cant mix it up inside

Having said all that, i hope Nash goes out and has another superlative season scoring 15 and dishing out 11 assists.....but quit griping about a weak frontline when Nash is part of the reason for that.....as long as he continues as the catalyst for the SUNS entire roster that is.

 

[Irish]

While we always think about TT's contribution in the year Amare was out, it should be remembered that the team had a beter record with KT during the reguar season. Somehow, Nash found a way to use a ough rebouder with a jump shot.

In Dallas, Nash thrived with a jum;p shooting 7'0 guy naed Dirk. What matter swas to have guys who would run the floor. Shaq didn't and he still wanted the ball all the time. Led footed slogs don't do well with Steve, but he does fine with guys who can rebound if they run.

 

[Mainstreet]

Having said all that, i hope Nash goes out and has another superlative season scoring 15 and dishing out 11 assists.....but quit griping about a weak frontline when Nash is part of the reason for that.....as long as he continues as the catalyst for the SUNS entire roster that is.

Nice summary of your position about Nash. However, Nash does not equal a weak frontline. That's another issue.

 

[mojorizen7]

Nice summary of your position about Nash. However, Nash does not equal a weak frontline. That's another issue.

Argue the reasoning behind my statement then my friend....


Tim Duncan or Shaquille O'Neal or even Karl Malone wouldn't fit in here according to the reasoning behind many fans here who believe that "oh that guy doesn't fit the system because he cant run the floor" or "he'll just bog down Nash's offensive flow"....

So instead the braintrust has built around Nash/Amare(which again i thought was a good idea and a nice try up until a couple yrs ago when it became PAINFULLY OBVIOUS that we were too weak & small)....and has repeatedly searched for smaller,quicker guys who can run,shoot and play with Nash.
Even a player like Joakim Noah wouldn't be allowed to wear a SUNS uni,let alone get put on the floor IMO.

 

[Errntknght]

Anyone who complains about the weaker frontlines the SUNS have rolled out since the Nash era began 6 yrs ago needs to understand that the vast majority of the frontline players were brought in because they complimented Nash very well offensively. If they didn't....they weren't here for very long.

The trend has continued this season.
IMO the SUNS aren't looking for more rebounding,defensive help up front unless an inexpensive opportunity comes a knocking.

The person propelling the selection of who to bring in for the most part was D'Antoni. Having Nash probably played a part in his decision making but offense & finesse at the expense of defense & muscle is a hallmark of his doctrine. (Of course, that was the Suns traditional style before Mike carried it to the extreme.)

Drafting Lopez, Lawal and Collins was certainly defensively motivated and probably that played a role in drafting Dragic and Clark as well - at least it was said on here that Clark was an able defender. The motivation for picking up Turk and Warrick is not at all clear - my guess is that their relationship to Babby was the key. In any case, they do not seem to ideally suited to Nash's game. Hopefully, when we do get a real GM, he'll have a more balanced view - and we may get a passable PF yet.

 

[cly2tw]

Blessing or Curse in disguise? SSOL brings its own downfall, just as relying too much on Nash. Gentry proved that the team could win with much reduced Nash dribbling in the 2nd part of last season. It might be just too late though for a revelation.