The Rosen Problem

[SECTION 11]

Where's Ouchie when you need him. Words matter as he would say. Didn't say he always looks to run. When he tucks the football he looks to run. Also does not sense pressure well. Watch the tape.



Again do not put words in my mouth. More similar to Rosen than Murray is what i said. Sorry if you can't see that.



So you like a bunch of other people know for a fact Murray will be better than Rosen in the NFL. I've never said I know who will be better and am on record saying I think Murray can be great. Still haven't seen any intelligent opinions or analysis from you. Just Rosen hate every now and then.

This is just noise. I don’t even know why you are wasting your time. I don’t hate Josh Rosen. I just like the Cardinals more than him. You however are clearly not on that page.

 

[HeHasRosen]

This is just noise. I don’t even know why you are wasting your time. I don’t hate Josh Rosen. I just like the Cardinals more than him. You however are clearly not on that page.

Im not on that page because I dont agree with you? There's plenty of die hard fans in here that share my opinion. Born and raised on and only been a fan of one NFL team and that is the Arizona Cardinals that will never change. Some are even saying they will walk away if we take Murray. If we take Murray i will change my screen name to marriedtomurray or some crap. I think it will be a mistake but if we do he will be my guy. I do not want to pass on the defensive studs at the top of this draft. That's just how i feel. I think Rosen has a bright future just as Peyton Manning does. Im just presenting what i see on the tape and why i have reservations on Murray. Doesn't mean im not worried about Josh as well. Just the better route to success imo

 

[TJ]

I think they have to draft Murray. In a way the same way they had to draft Rosen last year. Seriously, no sane person was more excited for Josh Rosen than they were for simply drafting the position of quarterback.

For one, there is no market for a trade down. Zero. Any hope that teams are falling over themselves to trade up to #1 is not there. Right now there is no bidding war whatsoever. There’s one suitor, the Giants, who are just fine staying at six. That takes one of three scenarios off the table.

The other scenario is that they they stay put at #1 and select one of the three. No way you gamble on either of those guys. I like all of them, but at number one you might as well be betting on red, black, whatever. This does not jive with Bidwills’s clear hostility shown towards last year’s version of fiasco. This would be a gutless waste of opportunity.

So then what? Draft the best quarterback in the draft, and at the same time get whatever you can for Rosen. You’re still upgrading two positions in the process, and one is the most important on the team.

So they shouldn’t “gamble” on three prospects who are universally rated higher than Murray and will likely contribute the second they arrive, but the Cardinals “have” to draft Murray, considered by most the second best QB in this draft. This makes no sense.

Here’s what makes sense, and it’s the Doomsday scenario for the Cardinals with a fairly high likelihood of materializing: Murray is the pick at #1. Bosa is SF’s pick at #2, and Rosen is traded away. Rosen develops into a Top-10 QB elsewhere, Bosa is an all-pro in the division, and Murray busts and/or quits the sport altogether for baseball. You’ve wasted the top pick in the draft, jettisoned your QBoF and are forced to go against the player you should’ve picked twice a year for 10-12 years.

Bottom line: Don’t get cute and buy into the Murray hysteria. Stay the course, draft Bosa, or take the king’s ransom if someone wants to trade up.

 

[SECTION 11]

So they shouldn’t “gamble” on three prospects who are universally rated higher than Murray and will likely contribute the second they arrive, but the Cardinals “have” to draft Murray, considered by most the second best QB in this draft

Cmon man. This isn’t even accidentally legitimate.

 

[TJ]

Cmon man. This isn’t even accidentally legitimate.

Then you need to accidentally pay better attention. This has been common knowledge since the offseason began. This draft is top-heavy with pass rushers and defensive linemen, pretty strong at tight end, and relatively weak at quarterback, cornerback, and wide receiver. Murray wasn’t considered much for the first round before the now-infamous hype video of KK talking about Murray surfaced, and Haskins has been largely considered a better pro prospect. Literally the only reason people think Murray is going to AZ is because of that video clip. On Cards Cover 2 today, Jurecki was asked about the video and had it not surfaced, are we going ballistic over Murray, and he said probably not. Furthermore, many analysts, even some who think Murray is going #1 overall, concede that Rosen would be the top QB in this draft class.

It’s not a hot take to say that drafting Murray #1 is a reach. It absolutely is. Bosa, Allen, Q Williams, Oliver and a list of others don’t have the significant physical limitations for their respective positions that Murray has. Could Murray pan out? Sure. But I’m not willing to bet the most coveted draft pick in Arizona Cardinals’ history to find out.

 

[SECTION 11]

Great stuff. Literally many most all agree.

 

[SECTION 11]

This is some of the most delusional nonsense since Jeff Blake’s sister was here.

 

[TJ]

This is some of the most delusional nonsense since Jeff Blake’s sister was here.

Your take about the Cardinals “having” to take Murray was pretty nonsensical, but I was trying to be nice by giving you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[SECTION 11]

Fair enough

 

[Dr. Jones]

You don't draft a player because you want to keep him away from a division rival. You draft a player because he gives your team a better chance to win games.

WAR is a fun Stat to look at in this case and really sheds a light on why a transcendent QB is much better than Aaron Donald.

For example, Mahomes was 6 games better than Donald last year.

If they like Murray.... They will take Murray.

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[DVontel]

Drafting Bosa gives you a better chance to win games while keeping them away from a division rival.

Win-win. It can be both in this case.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Bad comparison. Skelton had poor game prep habits and regressed over the course of his career. It was apparent after his third season that the Fordham product was not NFL material. Nice guy, though.

He wasn't even CFL material.

 

[GuernseyCard]

I think they have to draft Murray. In a way the same way they had to draft Rosen last year. Seriously, no sane person was more excited for Josh Rosen than they were for simply drafting the position of quarterback.

For one, there is no market for a trade down. Zero. Any hope that teams are falling over themselves to trade up to #1 is not there. Right now there is no bidding war whatsoever. There’s one suitor, the Giants, who are just fine staying at six. That takes one of three scenarios off the table.

The other scenario is that they they stay put at #1 and select one of the three. No way you gamble on either of those guys. I like all of them, but at number one you might as well be betting on red, black, whatever. This does not jive with Bidwills’s clear hostility shown towards last year’s version of fiasco. This would be a gutless waste of opportunity.

So then what? Draft the best quarterback in the draft, and at the same time get whatever you can for Rosen. You’re still upgrading two positions in the process, and one is the most important on the team.

Who says there is no market for a trade down besides you?

Oakland could very well be a trading partner for Bosa and for good reason : they had all of 12 sacks last season and they have the draft capital to make the deal.

 

[cwamjn]

Who says there is no market for a trade down besides you?

Oakland could very well be a trading partner for Bosa and for good reason : they had all of 12 sacks last season and they have the draft capital to make the deal.

Says common sense. They traded Mack, that's why they have no pass rush. They'll use the 4 to get Josh Allen then 24 and 27 to grab two more players.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Says common sense. They traded Mack, that's why they have no pass rush. They'll use the 4 to get Josh Allen then 24 and 27 to grab two more players.

Wanting Bosa, as opposed to Allen, is not bereft of commonsense given that we have no idea as to how they rate the two.

 

[Ohcrap75]

Says common sense. They traded Mack, that's why they have no pass rush. They'll use the 4 to get Josh Allen then 24 and 27 to grab two more players.

you could argue that they didn't use common sense when trading Mack away, so maybe they go the nonsensical route again? Gruden's a different cat!!

 

[PJ1]

I think they have to draft Murray. In a way the same way they had to draft Rosen last year. Seriously, no sane person was more excited for Josh Rosen than they were for simply drafting the position of quarterback.

For one, there is no market for a trade down. Zero. Any hope that teams are falling over themselves to trade up to #1 is not there. Right now there is no bidding war whatsoever. There’s one suitor, the Giants, who are just fine staying at six. That takes one of three scenarios off the table.

If Murray is as good as you and others are saying why is there no market for a trade down? Wouldn't one of these teams needing a QB trade up for a QB so good he is worthy of the #1 overall pick?

 

[RON_IN_OC]

If Murray is as good as you and others are saying why is there no market for a trade down? Wouldn't one of these teams needing a QB trade up for a QB so good he is worthy of the #1 overall pick?

Great point. There are actually teams that do need a QB...

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[cwamjn]

If Murray is as good as you and others are saying why is there no market for a trade down? Wouldn't one of these teams needing a QB trade up for a QB so good he is worthy of the #1 overall pick?

I agree you can't reach with the number one pick out of need. The safe pick is Bosa. If Rosen is still the worst QB in football next year, you'll have a choice of Tua, Fromm or Herbert. If you can wait another year Trevor Lawrence looks truly transcendent, but he's s long shot unless the cards are 0-16 terrible, since I'm sure teams will tank for a shot at Lawrence.

 

[Krangodnzr]

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Great breakdown

 

[b8rtm8nn]

This is what destroys QBs, and I'm fairly certain this is how bad last years coaching was based on what we saw. (the second tweet, obviously)

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[Chopper0080]

And when exactly did Matt Ryan become a bad QB?

He isn't bad, but he is also not considered one of the five best QBs in the NFL. My point is if you think Rosen is going to ever be a top 5 guy, you are going to be disappointed. He was never that guy when we drafted him.

 

[Chopper0080]

I would love it if Rosen became a future HOFer like Matt Ryan is gonna be. Omg.

We differ on Ryan being a future HOF QB, but he is a good player.

 

[Chopper0080]

I see Matt Ryan or Eli Manning.

I think that is his best case career expectation.

 

[DVontel]

We differ on Ryan being a future HOF QB, but he is a good player.

Question is, do you think Rivers is a HOF QB?