The State of the Cards

Harry

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Well, they say every team has at least one weakness. I believe that to be an accurate generalization. Clearly the Cards have two that must be looked at as this season approaches. Oddly, I felt that last season many of the deficiencies were on the offense. Almost all of them have been resolved. A premier runner has been added. The O-line depth is vastly improved. At tight end the assembled group of players should provide safety in numbers. With or without Boldin, the offense will be improved. I expect Breaston to take another step forward. This will be an even more explosive team in 2009.

Then there’s the defense. To say the least, the anchor tackle play was weak in 2008. The Cards are gambling Watson will put injuries behind him and play bigger as well as better. Robinson played well for a journeyman, but clearly is not an impact player. Branch had the best seat in the house and got an excellent view of the action. The Cards can survive this weakness, but I am surprised it wasn't addressed.

Moving to the secondary, with Hood leaving, the depth in the secondary is scary. I like Brown, but not starting should injury befall the unit. He should prove adequate at the nickel. Comparisons of Toler to DRC are not justified. Toler has far less polish and is a long shot to make a contribution this year, even on special teams. DRC is a rarity. The depth at safety was poor last season and looks weak this year. I think Rolle will show improvement, but while I like Johnson’s future, I’m less certain he’s the “play now” type. His history would indicate he does better when allowed to grow into his role.

The linebacking corps is solid inside, but the failure to sign Dansby makes one wonder if he will play with reckless abandon. Last year there were times I faulted the defensive set calling that may have not been justified. As I look back I wonder if Dansby may have been playing it safe. A severe injury then and now would cost him a huge amount of money. Looking outside, rush linebackers rarely age well. Berry and Okeafor will give it what they’ve got, but will that be enough? Okeafor always looked better to me with a hand on the ground. I’m not certain he is comfortable in his current role. Berry looked out of gas by the Super Bowl and surely will be less energized after another year’s wear.

Overall, my question about the entire defense is, “Where’s the pass rush?” I think Cody Brown can play at this level, but a year’s seasoning would help. I was not surprised to see LaBoy cut, he was a one trick pony, but that trick was pass rushing. A weaker rush puts more pressure on the secondary and increases the chance of injury. Pass coverage players are rarely injured if the ball doesn’t get into the air. The Cards’ starting secondary is solid, but nothing breaks a player’s spirit like giving up a big play. In pass coverage, self-confidence is critical. Give receivers all day to make double moves and no secondary looks good. Berry & Okeafor appear to have lost a step. They will execute, but not do so at the optimum level. Okeafor often hesitates and that missing step means he can’t close the deal like he once could. Newcomer Brown will rely on athleticism and that seldom is enough in this league. Up front Campbell is a small upgrade from Smith in the pass rushing department, but will likely not be an impact rusher. The Cards couldn’t get to the QB when it counted in the Super Bowl and I don’t see that flaw as corrected.

In the end, this team will have to win most weeks by out-scoring the opposition. They will do that quite often, but mark my word. At a critical time in the season, the lack of an adequate pass rush will cost them dearly.
 

JeffGollin

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]Harry - It seems to me that we'll be able to do a better job of assessing "The State of the Cardinals" sometime during Training Camp or at least after all the OTA's and minis are completed and when we can better gauge how are newcomers are doing - preferably in pads; even more preferably under game conditions.

To pronounce our offensive line "improved" or expressing concern about our pass rush may be a bit premature. We just don't know yet.

Invariably there will be surprises (i.e. a pheenom will emerge at Position A and surprise us all; a rash of injuries will make us weak or thin at Position B). It happens every year).

I'm hoping our scouts have hit a home run with Herman Johnson, but we don't really know that yet. If Cody Brown comes in lacking a variety of pass rush moves or being a bit "lost in space", we don't know how fast (or effectively) he'll pick up new moves or get used to moving backwards.

State of the Cardinals? Same as it was a week ago, the week before that and the week before that and...
 
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Duckjake

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assessing "The State of the Cardinals" sometime during Training Camp or at least after all the OTA's and minis are completed and when we can better gauge how are newcomers are doing - preferably in pads; even more preferably under game conditions.

And during training camp the posts will read that we need to wait to assess the team after the first game, then after 3-4 games, and then after the rookies have had 8 or so games to develop. The old classic Cardinal line "judge us after camp starts" when they looked like 5-11 before and after.

This is an older well established team. Not a bunch of inexperienced 23 year olds and, new to the Cards, free agents like the Cards used to run out every season. Its much easier to forecast what the team will do under these circumstances. Especially when it is highly likely that only one first year player, BWells, will start.

Sure there are guys I see that will need some time to evaluate but I don't think it will take months to have a good idea of what the 2009 team can do.

As I look back I wonder if Dansby may have been playing it safe. A severe injury then and now would cost him a huge amount of money.

I have trouble buying into this because too many players have told me playing it safe is the best way to get hurt. How do you lead the team in tackles if you are avoiding contact? How does your run defense shut down 4 straight playoff teams if your #1 LB is playing it safe?

This is something I just don't understand. How do you get the results Dansby has had in every defensive category over his career playing soft?
 
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I dont think I can disagree with the substance of Harry's analysis.

I think offensively, barring major injuries (the caveat for all teams) -- this team can be pretty special.

Defensively -- we will see. Clancy's defenses have been so up and down over his tenure -- some games looking like a top notch defense, others looking like they belong in the CFL. Ultimately, the bad outweighed the good and the team ended up in the bottom quartile in scoring defense ( #19 in yards). It will be interesting to see how how Bill Davis' defense changes and if it has a positive impact.
 

Skkorpion

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My thinking is that Dansby will play very hard to prove he is worth a mega contract.

On our edge pass rushers, Harry may be right. Like Jeff, my belief (or maybe blind hope) is that Campbell, Okeafor and eventually Cody Brown will be effective pass rushers this year.

At DT don't forget Keilen Dykes. He and a healthy Gabe Watson might be a better rotation than many of us anticipate. Alan Branch appears to me to be a bust. He is unmotivated to play hard.
 

Duckjake

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My thinking is that Dansby will play very hard to prove he is worth a mega contract.

On our edge pass rushers, Harry may be right. Like Jeff, my belief (or maybe blind hope) is that Campbell, Okeafor and eventually Cody Brown will be effective pass rushers this year.

At DT don't forget Keilen Dykes. He and a healthy Gabe Watson might be a better rotation than many of us anticipate. Alan Branch appears to me to be a bust. He is unmotivated to play hard.

Could be that last year's huge success by the team could remove the "un" from some of our unmotivated.

It might also give the veterans more cred. I'd bet its tough to try to get a young player to listen to you when your career record is, say, 25-55.
 

WildBB

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In the end, this team will have to win most weeks by out-scoring the opposition. They will do that quite often, but mark my word. At a critical time in the season, the lack of an adequate pass rush will cost them dearly.

Your right. But that doesn't take in to account the teams BEST pass rusher, which you fail to mention. Adrian Wilson. Along with a boost from Calias Campbell and a bigger than expected contribution from Cody Brown negating the departure of (the one trick pony) LaBoy, I expect good/great things from the unit.

And yes Rashad Johnson will free up Wilson even more with Rolle sliding over to cover the SS slot. It's going to be nice to see this unit develop.
 
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Your right. But that doesn't take in to account the teams BEST pass rusher, which you fail to mention. Adrian Wilson.

And yes Rashad Johnson will free up Wilson even more with Rolle sliding over to cover the SS slot. It's going to be nice to see this unit develop.
True, A-Dub is the Cardinals best pass rush option. I certainly hope to see this happen more often than the last couple of seasons...
 

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I feel that after the 1st 3 regular season games, we will know what this team is made of. That said, I think other than a couple of O-lineman, the 2010 draft should focus on the defensive side of the ball.

Next year we will probably have to replace Gandy as he is going to be a FA and we will not have the cap space to keep him unless we choose not to re-sign Rolle. Also, this is the year we need to decide if Sendlein is the long term solution at C or if he needs to be replaced or challenged by another C prospect in the draft.

On the defensive side, Berry, Okeafor, Haggans & Robinson will need to be replaced if they are not cut before then. McFadden will be entering the final year of his deal so we may want another CB to groom next to DRC and at the very least challenge Toler if we don't keep McFadden.
 
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Duckjake

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But that doesn't take in to account the teams BEST pass rusher, which you fail to mention. Adrian Wilson.

True, A-Dub is the Cardinals best pass rush option. I certainly hope to see this happen more often than the last couple of seasons...

Where does this come from? AW has 2.5 sacks in his last 25 regular season games. 18.5 for his 8 year career.

Dansby by comparison has 24.5 in only 5 seasons. Berry has 35 in 5 years as a Cardinal and Okeafor has more Cardinal sacks than Wilson in only 3 seasons in the AZ.

I guess it goes all the way back to 2005 when Wilson had 8 an abnormal # for a Safety.

Sure he is a great pass rush threat for a safety and a tremendous surprise rusher, but best pass rush option? I'd have to disagree.
 

Jetstream Green

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We did get to the QB in the Superbowl, but Big Ben was a load to pull down and there where so many times our pass rush did get in the backfield and could not follow through...I will never watch that Superbowl again LOL
 

JeffGollin

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I will never watch that Superbowl again LOL
Unfortunately, the final TD pass (over Ralph Brown's partially outstretched hands) to Holmes in the corner gets repeated endlessly in highlights, league promos and commercials.

I guess one of the downsides to reaching the Supe but then losing is that you get to play the role of "the other team" for the next 12 months.
 
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Where does this come from?.. I guess it goes all the way back to 2005 when Wilson had 8 an abnormal # for a Safety.
Yes, I am sure that probably is a part of the foundation of my thoughts on this.

Sure he is a great pass rush threat for a safety and a tremendous surprise rusher, but best pass rush option? I'd have to disagree.
A poorly worded thought on my part. Obviously, the SS should not be the first option, and certainly not the main weapon in building a pass rush.

But I do think that over the past two seasons Wilson has not been given the freedom to rush often enough. As you pointed out, "only 2.5 sacks in the last 25 regular season games." That low amount is due more to not being sent than not being effective at getting to the QB, imo. Further, I think that has been the case out of necessity due to not having suffcient confidence in the FS position. I am just hoping that is able to change this upcoming season.

I do think that sending the safety blitz more often will greatly improve the Cardinals rush packages. And it's not only Wilson they could send; as I recall Rolle was pretty good at it while at Miami...
 
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Duckjake

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Yes, I am sure that probably is a part of the foundation of my thoughts on this.

A poorly worded thought on my part. Obviously, the SS should not be the first option, and certainly not the main weapon in building a pass rush.

But I do think that over the past two seasons Wilson has not been given the freedom to rush often enough. As you pointed out, "only 2.5 sacks in the last 25 regular season games." That low amount is due more to not being sent than not being effective at getting to the QB, imo. Further, I think that has been the case out of necessity due to not having suffcient confidence in the FS position. I am just hoping that is able to change this upcoming season.

I do think that sending the safety blitz more often will greatly improve the Cardinals rush packages. And it's not only Wilson they could send; as I recall Rolle was pretty good at it while at Miami...

The Cards were making adjustments on defense to shore up their run defense. I wonder is that has been a reason that Wilson hasn't been sent more often the last season and a half. Keeping him home to support the run?
 

LVCARDFREAK

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One of my concerns has always been the loss of Antonio Smith. I didnt get the sense on this board that people thought losing him would hurt us much.

If you look at his stats, nothing jumps out. He had, what 40 tackles, 3.5 sacks, but it seemed to me that he always made a play when the cards needed it, and he was stout against the run.

I think Campbell will be OK, but he is a rotational player at this point IMO, and I think to get production out of that position, several people have to step up.

Maybe it is me, but I thik the loss of Antonio Smith might sting a little more than we wall think.

edit - In no way am I suggesting the Cards should have kept him at the number Houston gave him.
 

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One of my concerns has always been the loss of Antonio Smith. I didnt get the sense on this board that people thought losing him would hurt us much.

If you look at his stats, nothing jumps out. He had, what 40 tackles, 3.5 sacks, but it seemed to me that he always made a play when the cards needed it, and he was stout against the run.

I think Campbell will be OK, but he is a rotational player at this point IMO, and I think to get production out of that position, several people have to step up.

Maybe it is me, but I thik the loss of Antonio Smith might sting a little more than we wall think.

edit - In no way am I suggesting the Cards should have kept him at the number Houston gave him.

I worry as well

my guess is that Campbell is probably a better pass rusher than Antonio -- maybe he ends up with 6 vs Antonio's 3.5, but gives up a bit in run defense
 

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