The Suns next big move

[Hoop Head]

There is always this. With LeBron and Dwight in LA, you know it could go badly.

https://sports.yahoo.com/anthony-davis-lakers-bulls-free-agency-012607374.html

AD. Final piece. Yeah. I could live with that. Just silly I know. That is the point of this thread.

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I'm not sure which would make me happier, seeing how much the Suns improve by signing AD or seeing how bad it hurts the Lakers.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'm not sure which would make me happier, seeing how much the Suns improve by signing AD or seeing how bad it hurts the Lakers.

Double whammy.

 

[taz02]

I'm sure it's here somewhere but what is our cap situation for next season?

If this level of play continues and with Monty and Jones running the show I can can see the suns being a FA destination again.....

 

[95pro]

I'm sure it's here somewhere but what is our cap situation for next season?

If this level of play continues and with Monty and Jones running the show I can can see the suns being a FA destination again.....

With the new training facility and eventually the arena upgrades

 

[Hoop Head]

I'm sure it's here somewhere but what is our cap situation for next season?

If this level of play continues and with Monty and Jones running the show I can can see the suns being a FA destination again.....

There should be between 15-20 million in space but that will largely be eaten up by keeping Baynes and Tyler Johnson, if there is a plan to retain them.

Diallo and Okobo are likely on their way out at years end as the team has minimum contract options for both of them. Javon Carter is a restricted free agent and so is Saric, if the Suns elect to extend qualifying offers to them.

Carter's qualifying offer and cap hit are really low, $1.9 million qualifying offer and cap hit since he was a 2nd round pick. So I think he'll be retained if he can get back on track. He's almost cheaper than a 1st round pick and brings more than some late 1st rounders would.

Saric could be tricky. His qualifying offer is just $4.7 million but his cap hold is $10 million. That makes retaining him questionable, especially if they hope to sign someone outside of the organization. For $4.7 million, I'd like to keep him next year but that cap hold makes it a bit prohibitive.

We do have the MLE available, which will be about $9 million but is also available to any team not in the luxury tax. It's something, for sure, and teams don't seem to blow it all on 1 player like they used to back when it was in the $5 million range. That can be used like cap space as far as we can sign multiple guys with it.

ETA - Also worth noting that Kaminsky's deal isn't guaranteed next season. He's making $4.7 this year, which is fully guaranteed, and has a club option for $5 million next season. The way he's playing right now says that will be picked up. The only way I see it being rescinded is if we want to work out a long term plan while we have some cap space to do so since that might not be possible in another season as we won't have his bird rights and Oubre will also be a free agent to resign then. We do have Oubre's bird rights so Kaminsky can be signed with space in 2 years as well but it would need to be timed correctly with Oubre's deal.

 

[Dr. Jones]

No, no, no. No big moves. Go with what you have for now.

Agreed..... Give them one year and wait for the megastar possibility.

Who knows...... That could be Giannis on an expiring if we play our cards right.

 

[Proximo]

There should be between 15-20 million in space but that will largely be eaten up by keeping Baynes and Tyler Johnson, if there is a plan to retain them.

Diallo and Okobo are likely on their way out at years end as the team has minimum contract options for both of them. Javon Carter is a restricted free agent and so is Saric, if the Suns elect to extend qualifying offers to them.

Carter's qualifying offer and cap hit are really low, $1.9 million qualifying offer and cap hit since he was a 2nd round pick. So I think he'll be retained if he can get back on track. He's almost cheaper than a 1st round pick and brings more than some late 1st rounders would.

Saric could be tricky. His qualifying offer is just $4.7 million but his cap hold is $10 million. That makes retaining him questionable, especially if they hope to sign someone outside of the organization. For $4.7 million, I'd like to keep him next year but that cap hold makes it a bit prohibitive.

We do have the MLE available, which will be about $9 million but is also available to any team not in the luxury tax. It's something, for sure, and teams don't seem to blow it all on 1 player like they used to back when it was in the $5 million range. That can be used like cap space as far as we can sign multiple guys with it.

ETA - Also worth noting that Kaminsky's deal isn't guaranteed next season. He's making $4.7 this year, which is fully guaranteed, and has a club option for $5 million next season. The way he's playing right now says that will be picked up. The only way I see it being rescinded is if we want to work out a long term plan while we have some cap space to do so since that might not be possible in another season as we won't have his bird rights and Oubre will also be a free agent to resign then. We do have Oubre's bird rights so Kaminsky can be signed with space in 2 years as well but it would need to be timed correctly with Oubre's deal.

I think keeping Baynes is probably going to be a problem. Considering how super weak the free agent class is, I have a feeling someone will throw a bunch of money at him.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think keeping Baynes is probably going to be a problem. Considering how super weak the free agent class is, I have a feeling someone will throw a bunch of money at him.

It will be a short term deal, but Baynes has no possibility of being a star. Big, overpriced deals are usually for younger players.

 

[Hoop Head]

It will be a short term deal, but Baynes has no possibility of being a star. Big, overpriced deals are usually for younger players.

One year overpays for veterans like him have happened a few times over the years. I don't pay that much attention to those deals but JJ Reddick signed for $20 million for his first year in Philly and I think $15 for his second, which was also a 1 year deal. Trevor Ariza signed with us for $15 million for 1 year and signed for 2 in Sacramento at $25 million. There is precedent for overpaying stop gap vets and someone like Baynes might get overpaid by a team like Memphis to work with Jaren Jackson, similar to how we initially brought him in to work with Ayton.

More on the star side of things but Horford and Millsap both signed ridiculously large deals despite being in their mid 30's. Baynes won't see close to $30 million a year but a 1 year deal that pays him somewhere between $15-20 is a definite possibility if he keeps this up.

If we resign him to a similar deal, I'd be fine with it, so long as it's not more than 2 years and doesn't tie up more than $15 a year. A deal like Ariza signed in Sacramento where he's paid $12.5 for each year but with only $2 million guaranteed for year 2 would be much better for us, if possible.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

One year overpays for veterans like him have happened a few times over the years. I don't pay that much attention to those deals but JJ Reddick signed for $20 million for his first year in Philly and I think $15 for his second, which was also a 1 year deal. Trevor Ariza signed with us for $15 million for 1 year and signed for 2 in Sacramento at $25 million. There is precedent for overpaying stop gap vets and someone like Baynes might get overpaid by a team like Memphis to work with Jaren Jackson, similar to how we initially brought him in to work with Ayton.

More on the star side of things but Horford and Millsap both signed ridiculously large deals despite being in their mid 30's. Baynes won't see close to $30 million a year but a 1 year deal that pays him somewhere between $15-20 is a definite possibility if he keeps this up.

If we resign him to a similar deal, I'd be fine with it, so long as it's not more than 2 years and doesn't tie up more than $15 a year. A deal like Ariza signed in Sacramento where he's paid $12.5 for each year but with only $2 million guaranteed for year 2 would be much better for us, if possible.

His numbers will drop when Ayton returns.

 

[Hoop Head]

His numbers will drop when Ayton returns.

And other teams will be fully aware of that. They'll also know what he can do in a larger role and understand why it was reduced. Of course the question of how long he'll be able to do that will come up but for a large one year deal, it won't be that much of an issue if he can't replicate his current level of production. If Ayton's out all 25 games, that will only give Baynes' agent and other GM's a larger sample size to show what he can do when put in a starting role.

Teams aren't just seeing how much he's helped us but also how big of an effect he had in Boston and are able to attribute more to him now that he's here by seeing the uptick in production for the Suns as a whole and also how the Celtics aren't able to do things they did last year. According to advanced stats he was Boston's best defender last year. He's come to Phoenix and helped transform the team's defensive identity. What can he do at his next stop? That's a question another GM will be asking when they're looking at signing him.

He won't be ridiculously overpaid for long and the Suns might be able to lock him down with some long term security but given his recent production, there is a strong possibility that another team will overpay for him knowing he's a short term rental or stop gap.

What's more of a question is will the Suns be able to turn down offers at the trade deadline when teams come calling for Baynes. That will probably be tougher for them than resigning him.

 

[JCSunsfan]

And other teams will be fully aware of that. They'll also know what he can do in a larger role and understand why it was reduced. Of course the question of how long he'll be able to do that will come up but for a large one year deal, it won't be that much of an issue if he can't replicate his current level of production. If Ayton's out all 25 games, that will only give Baynes' agent and other GM's a larger sample size to show what he can do when put in a starting role.

Teams aren't just seeing how much he's helped us but also how big of an effect he had in Boston and are able to attribute more to him now that he's here by seeing the uptick in production for the Suns as a whole and also how the Celtics aren't able to do things they did last year. According to advanced stats he was Boston's best defender last year. He's come to Phoenix and helped transform the team's defensive identity. What can he do at his next stop? That's a question another GM will be asking when they're looking at signing him.

He won't be ridiculously overpaid for long and the Suns might be able to lock him down with some long term security but given his recent production, there is a strong possibility that another team will overpay for him knowing he's a short term rental or stop gap.

What's more of a question is will the Suns be able to turn down offers at the trade deadline when teams come calling for Baynes. That will probably be tougher for them than resigning him.

I think it will be easy to turn down offers for him at the deadline. They will be marginal offers. If the Suns are deep in the playoff picture, keeping him will make sense.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

And other teams will be fully aware of that. They'll also know what he can do in a larger role and understand why it was reduced. Of course the question of how long he'll be able to do that will come up but for a large one year deal, it won't be that much of an issue if he can't replicate his current level of production. If Ayton's out all 25 games, that will only give Baynes' agent and other GM's a larger sample size to show what he can do when put in a starting role.

Teams aren't just seeing how much he's helped us but also how big of an effect he had in Boston and are able to attribute more to him now that he's here by seeing the uptick in production for the Suns as a whole and also how the Celtics aren't able to do things they did last year. According to advanced stats he was Boston's best defender last year. He's come to Phoenix and helped transform the team's defensive identity. What can he do at his next stop? That's a question another GM will be asking when they're looking at signing him.

He won't be ridiculously overpaid for long and the Suns might be able to lock him down with some long term security but given his recent production, there is a strong possibility that another team will overpay for him knowing he's a short term rental or stop gap.

What's more of a question is will the Suns be able to turn down offers at the trade deadline when teams come calling for Baynes. That will probably be tougher for them than resigning him.

I suppose we will have to be willing to pay up to keep him and I don't see them trading him away during this season. He is just way to valuable for what this team is currently doing and I don't see them throwing that away at the trade deadline.

We might have to let Tyler walk in the off-season or potentially trade him this year, but as far as I can tell they have a solid 20-25m to play with this off-season and there is a decent chance that they could bring back both Tyler and Baynes with that money if they so choose. Saric will be restricted and if they want him back they could go over the cap to sign him.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I suppose we will have to be willing to pay up to keep him and I don't see them trading him away during this season. He is just way to valuable for what this team is currently doing and I don't see them throwing that away at the trade deadline.

We might have to let Tyler walk in the off-season or potentially trade him this year, but as far as I can tell they have a solid 20-25m to play with this off-season and there is a decent chance that they could bring back both Tyler and Baynes with that money if they so choose. Saric will be restricted and if they want him back they could go over the cap to sign him.

I see Saric as odd man out. No point to n keeping Saric and Kaminsky. The draft will be interesting. They don’t need anything really except another star. I expect them to trade away their draft pick this year. I might consider trading it now since it will lose value as the season progresses.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I see Saric as odd man out. No point to n keeping Saric and Kaminsky. The draft will be interesting. They don’t need anything really except another star. I expect them to trade away their draft pick this year. I might consider trading it now since it will lose value as the season progresses.

Saric fits this team a hell of a lot more than Kaminsky IMO. Saric is just a far smarter player than Frank and plays significantly better defense. Frank has a team option next year for like 5m and that could free up more money.

 

[devilalum]

I see Saric as odd man out. No point to n keeping Saric and Kaminsky. The draft will be interesting. They don’t need anything really except another star. I expect them to trade away their draft pick this year. I might consider trading it now since it will lose value as the season progresses.

I think Jones did a great job of accumulating experienced, mature pieces to fill out the roster. You have to know ahead of time that they won’t all work out.

Don’t know if I’d trade the pick now but the deadline might make sense if the Suns are still top tier.

What is even the Suns top need at this point?


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[Mainstreet]

I think we will need to change our mindset. If the Suns are making a playoff run, they will likely be looking to fortify the team not weaken it.

It depends where the Suns are near the trade deadline.

 

[1Sun]

I think Jones did a great job of accumulating experienced, mature pieces to fill out the roster. You have to know ahead of time that they won’t all work out.

Don’t know if I’d trade the pick now but the deadline might make sense if the Suns are still top tier.

What is even the Suns top need at this point?


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Power forward, without question.

 

[SunnyBaller]

I read a break down of their cap situation and they are expected to have between 24-29 mil in space

Thats a decent amount and it opens up plenty of possibilities to get a Max if they wanted to open up more with a trade or two. Who'd they'd sign with that idk this year's free agents aren't great. But they are in a decent position to make a somewhat splashy move

 

[Chaplin]

I read a break down of their cap situation and they are expected to have between 24-29 mil in space

Thats a decent amount and it opens up plenty of possibilities to get a Max if they wanted to open up more with a trade or two. Who'd they'd sign with that idk this year's free agents aren't great. But they are in a decent position to make a somewhat splashy move

It's all about the summer of 2021. Only thing cap space is good for this year is for possible trades for high-salary people. The free agency class isn't even worth discussing in 2020.

 

[JCSunsfan]

It's all about the summer of 2021. Only thing cap space is good for this year is for possible trades for high-salary people. The free agency class isn't even worth discussing in 2020.

AD and Draymond would spark interest.

 

[Chaplin]

AD and Draymond would spark interest.

Draymond signed an extension and isn't going to be a free agent.

 

[BC867]

I see Saric as odd man out. No point to n keeping Saric and Kaminsky. The draft will be interesting. They don’t need anything really except another star. I expect them to trade away their draft pick this year. I might consider trading it now since it will lose value as the season progresses.

Good point. When Ayton returns, Baynes will be our best Power Forward and able to cover Ayton's weakness in the post.

As I previously suggested, perhaps a predominant 3-man rotation at C/PF with a backup standing by might work.

 

[1Sun]

Good point. When Ayton returns, Baynes will be our best Power Forward and able to cover Ayton's weakness in the post.

As I previously suggested, perhaps a predominant 3-man rotation at C/PF with a backup standing by might work.

Just as long as Ayton isn't playing power forward. We saw how that worked in Tucson. (Hint...not well...)

 

[BC867]

Just as long as Ayton isn't playing power forward. We saw how that worked in Tucson. (Hint...not well...)

That's why I've come around to saying Baynes as a Twin Tower Power Forward alongside Ayton,
and divide up the offensive and defensive responsibilities according to their skills for 32 minutes.

I get the impression that if anyone can do it, Monty can.