The Time For A Reset Thread

[boisesuns]

It seems like re-tooling or reshuffling isn’t much of an option in my opinion. So let’s fix the suns:

Who stays?

Who goes?

What can we realistically get for those leaving?

What do you think the Suns will actually do?

I think there’s a chance to reset, and not be much worse than 10-11 in the west, but we’re so far away from top 5 in the west.

 

[Proximo]

I have been saying this for months, I am glad others are now finally starting to realize it needs to happen.

In my opinion everyone should go but Dunn, Oso, Gillespie, Richards, and maybe Bol and Martin.

What can we realistically get - good question.

Late round 1st for Grayson, maybe a late first for Royce - probably just a 2nd though.

I hope we can get a young promising player, filler and 4 first's for Book, but the way he is playing lately probably not that many firsts.

For KD, 2 firsts and hopefully at least one starter.

I don't want to reset, we need to rebuild with youth. Yes that means we will suck, but it also means there is a chance to be good, with a bunch of lower tier vets there is no chance for improvement and being an 8 seed is completely pointless to me.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I have been saying this for months, I am glad others are now finally starting to realize it needs to happen.

Lol… there’s been a bunch of posters saying this pretty much since the 9-1 start immediately looked like fool’s gold. Hell… some of us were even saying this after yet another humiliating Booker playoff stomping last season.

 

[Phrazbit]

It seems like re-tooling or reshuffling isn’t much of an option in my opinion. So let’s fix the suns:

Who stays?

Who goes?

What can we realistically get for those leaving?

What do you think the Suns will actually do?

I think there’s a chance to reset, and not be much worse than 10-11 in the west, but we’re so far away from top 5 in the west.

They gotta their picks back from Houston, that is a must in any overhaul, otherwise any rebuild will be a useless gesture.

Trading Durant and Booker would obviously signal that we should swap out Allen and O'Neale. Really, anyone without potential of still being good and on the roster in a few years.

Dunn, Oso and Gillespe are the only ones I would bother to try to keep in that scenario.

Booker should yield a large haul... 3-4 firsts, maybe a decent young player or 2 as well... and probably some bad cap fodder to make it work.

We're stuck with Beal for at least one more year, even as an expiring deal in 2026... it's just such a huge cap number that I don't know what kind of players making that money we'd get back that wouldn't be albatrosses themselves.

I don't know what Durant's market will be. We should have taken the Golden State deal, I don't think we will see better. I think the idea of him going to Boston is laughable, zero chance. They are in a position to contend for a decade and Durant would cut that window down to a couple seasons... while probably not improving the team in the slightest. If we could get 3 of our picks back from Houston and whatever contracts are needed to make it work, I'd be happy. We should be rooting for both, OKC and Houston to flame out in the playoffs and get desperate.

What I think they WILL do... either double down on this colossal failure, or ship Durant off in an effort to build a more functioning team and get value back from him while they can. I think there is almost no chance Booker gets moved unless he forces the issue.

If we hard reset, we're going to be the worst team in basketball next season and watch someone else draft with our pick. In 2026 our pick is optioned with FOUR different teams, there is no way we get it back, in all likelihood we could go 0-82 and still pick in the 20s... this also makes me think they won't be willing to do a full on fire sale.

It is really hard to see a realistic path to relevance within the next 8+ years... I don't think any team in American sports has put themselves in a worse position. We're going to have to land a couple diamond in the rough type picks.

 

[Carolinacacti]

If there stuck with Beal you ship Booker out. I would keep Durant and the young guys

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm wondering if the Suns will sit Bradley Beal for the rest of the season or bring him back for a brief period in an attempt to help his trade value.

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[Phrazbit]

If there stuck with Beal you ship Booker out. I would keep Durant and the young guys

One, there is zero chance that Durant would have any interest in staying.

Two... why? What would the point be of sitting on a 37 year old Durant?

 

[Yuma]

I think the time to retool is when the Beal contract comes off the books. Just because many of the NBA insiders are saying we wouldn't get much to move KD. KD has been carrying this team. We would drop off the maps without him, AND we don't have our picks to make tanking pay off. So Booker/Beal combo for two more seasons would get really boring to watch. We aren't getting a significant rebuild until Beal leaves or his contract runs out.

 

[Carolinacacti]

One, there is zero chance that Durant would have any interest in staying.

Two... why? What would the point be of sitting on a 37 year old Durant?

A 37 year old that can handle double teams. Ship Booker for a starter and some picks is better then unloading the old star

 

[Hoop Head]

I think the time to retool is when the Beal contract comes off the books. Just because many of the NBA insiders are saying we wouldn't get much to move KD. KD has been carrying this team. We would drop off the maps without him, AND we don't have our picks to make tanking pay off. So Booker/Beal combo for two more seasons would get really boring to watch. We aren't getting a significant rebuild until Beal leaves or his contract runs out.

Carrying the Suns where? Even if I agreed, which I don't, we're not even a play in team. So keeping KD allows us a chance at being swept in the 1st round, at best, for the next year or two? That's an absolute terrible return on investment.

 

[Carolinacacti]

So we get watch some 15 game winners for two years. Oh boy

 

[Hoop Head]

So we get watch some 15 game winners for two years. Oh boy

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[Phrazbit]

A 37 year old that can handle double teams. Ship Booker for a starter and some picks is better then unloading the old star

Can he?

Also, his value is plummeting rapidly, why hold onto a 37 year old who can’t even get to the playoffs?

 

[Yuma]

Carrying the Suns where? Even if I agreed, which I don't, we're not even a play in team. So keeping KD allows us a chance at being swept in the 1st round, at best, for the next year or two? That's an absolute terrible return on investment.

Just don't moan about it when we win 25 games with no draft picks. LOL.

 

[nashman]

If you’re shipping out KD you will have draft picks otherwise why would you even trade him? Don’t think they are trading Book, think he and the young guys are safe….

 

[Raindog]

First and foremost, get rid of Jones and get a real personnel guy in here. If we are going to be rebuilding with iffy draft picks and youngsters for the next several years, we need someone who actually knows the difference between basketball talent and a hole in the ground... so, not James Jones.

 

[AzStevenCal]

They gotta their picks back from Houston, that is a must in any overhaul, otherwise any rebuild will be a useless gesture.

Trading Durant and Booker would obviously signal that we should swap out Allen and O'Neale. Really, anyone without potential of still being good and on the roster in a few years.

Dunn, Oso and Gillespe are the only ones I would bother to try to keep in that scenario.

Booker should yield a large haul... 3-4 firsts, maybe a decent young player or 2 as well... and probably some bad cap fodder to make it work.

We're stuck with Beal for at least one more year, even as an expiring deal in 2026... it's just such a huge cap number that I don't know what kind of players making that money we'd get back that wouldn't be albatrosses themselves.

I don't know what Durant's market will be. We should have taken the Golden State deal, I don't think we will see better. I think the idea of him going to Boston is laughable, zero chance. They are in a position to contend for a decade and Durant would cut that window down to a couple seasons... while probably not improving the team in the slightest. If we could get 3 of our picks back from Houston and whatever contracts are needed to make it work, I'd be happy. We should be rooting for both, OKC and Houston to flame out in the playoffs and get desperate.

What I think they WILL do... either double down on this colossal failure, or ship Durant off in an effort to build a more functioning team and get value back from him while they can. I think there is almost no chance Booker gets moved unless he forces the issue.

If we hard reset, we're going to be the worst team in basketball next season and watch someone else draft with our pick. In 2026 our pick is optioned with FOUR different teams, there is no way we get it back, in all likelihood we could go 0-82 and still pick in the 20s... this also makes me think they won't be willing to do a full on fire sale.

It is really hard to see a realistic path to relevance within the next 8+ years... I don't think any team in American sports has put themselves in a worse position. We're going to have to land a couple diamond in the rough type picks.

We're not getting our picks back from Houston, they can get far more for those picks from almost any other franchise.

IMO we have two reasonable approaches and one unreasonable one. The unreasonable one is the way we went the past 2 seasons where we wasted time and future capital trying to save today. I hope we've seen the last of this approach.

One of the reasonable choices is to just live with mediocrity and wait out the clock. My guess is that will lead to many years of mediocrity before we finally bottom out. The other approach (my preference), is to sell off every veteran, bottom out now, use our newfound cap space to facilitate trades for other teams and rebuild our draft picks that way. Both ways suck but IMO all we can control is when we bottom out, it's going to happen regardless.

 

[Covert Rain]

Can he?

Also, his value is plummeting rapidly, why hold onto a 37 year old who can’t even get to the playoffs?

Huh? His value is plummeting rapidly?! If you have been paying attention to podcasts and national shows he is the hot topic. He will be the hot topic of the offseason.

Unlike some local fans here, the national talk is not about this situation being KDs fault either. Not saying he will net a huge return but the national narrative is nothing like the local one.

 

[Phrazbit]

Huh? His value is plummeting rapidly?!? He has been on a heater and if you have been paying attention to social media and national shows he is that hot topic.

What the basis for that?

His age...?

 

[Covert Rain]

His age...?

He is still putting up some of the best numbers in the NBA. That’s not rapidly diminishing at all. He didn’t fall off a cliff already like CP3. That’s not the national narrative on him at all.

He is the very definition of growing old gracefully for NBA standards. A bunch of teams were calling for him at the trade deadline and since then he has been pretty good. I don’t see his value being much different at the end of the season than it is right now (whatever that is).

 

[Phrazbit]

He is still putting up some of the best numbers in the NBA. That’s not rapidly diminishing at all. He didn’t fall off a cliff already like CP3. That’s not the national narrative on him at all.

He is the very definition of growing old gracefully for NBA standards. A bunch of teams were calling for him at the trade deadline and since then he has been pretty good. I don’t see his value being much different at the end of the season than it is right now (whatever that is).

Hang on... we can't trade him now, so that isn't what I am talking about, I am talking about over the next year.

We should trade him ASAP, because as a 37 year old, who needs a new contract, his value is going to plummet.

 

[CardNots]

I’d say tear it down to the studs but the studs are rotten.

So one would think take it down to the foundation but we do not have one.

I’m of the mind, its time to sell the land and invest my time elsewhere…

 

[Yuma]

If you’re shipping out KD you will have draft picks otherwise why would you even trade him? Don’t think they are trading Book, think he and the young guys are safe….

That's the thing. A lot off NBA sources are saying the Suns should NOT expect a draft haul for KD. Maybe one or two picks at most. Also, like the Boston trade scenario has us taking older players back. We need younger and taller guys. We have smaller and slower already.

 

[Hoop Head]

That's the thing. A lot off NBA sources are saying the Suns should NOT expect a draft haul for KD. Maybe one or two picks at most. Also, like the Boston trade scenario has us taking older players back. We need younger and taller guys. We have smaller and slower already.

Then that's the move. The main thing is getting out from Durant, even if it means we don't get a huge haul. If we get a deal from Boston that includes a couple of guys and a 1-2 picks then we take it and keep the "For Sale" sign up. We need a GM who is willing and able to turn any players we receive into draft picks to restock the cupboards. They did that in Portland after trading Dame, moving quick to unload Jrue and then again later to move Brogdan.

 

[Covert Rain]

Hang on... we can't trade him now, so that isn't what I am talking about, I am talking about over the next year.

We should trade him ASAP, because as a 37 year old, who needs a new contract, his value is going to plummet.

We can't do it right now. I was talking end of season. If we hang onto him like it was rumored through an extension than I agree his value would be less than it is now. I am saying by end of season (barring his injury isn't serious), his value isn't going to diminish from now until the off season.