The trade, after I've calmed down.

JCSunsfan

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I am trying to look at this trade somewhat objectively after my initial negative reaction.

1. The signing of DerMarr seems to be connected somehow to this trade. Maybe they used some of the money saved this year, for him. DerMarr was on the Grizz summer league team, I think.

2. If we take a look at what happened at the end of the day, we lost Bo, and Jake, and we added Knight, Dermarr, the Trybanski, and the other kid (he's not making the team).

3. DerMarr was taken in the same draft as Big Jake but was much more highly regarded than Jake. He is a 6-9 player with a smooth jump shot, ball handling skills, and great defensive ability. He sounds like a slightly larger Joe Johnson. NBAdraft.net compared him to George Gervin (0ffensively) in their draft review.

4. Bo was going to be odd man out this year. We added Zarko and Googs is coming back. When healthy they are both more complete players than Bo. Bo was a sparkplug at times, but I was not nearly as fond of him as the rest of you. I used to cringe when he came into games to play center at 6-8. His hands were very poor. He turned the ball over all the time when it came to him at the high post. I would have traded Bo away for nearly nothing.

5. I was quite shocked at the Big Jake trade. He seemed to be healthy and finally was going to settle in as our starter. I had high hopes of his continuing to develop in this league. His back surgery gave me lingering doubts though. Back problems tend to be chronic, especially for a guy so large. I also was concerned about his play for the Greek team this summer. He should have been more dominant against limited competition.

He still might succeed, but the signing of DerMarr takes the edge off a little. I'd say that the odds are about the same for both, that they eventually will become decent NBA players.

If Frank is serious about running, Jake would have gotten limited minutes anyway. You can get away with a running game and a behemoth at center, but Jake never showed the ability to rebound and get the outlet pass down court very well. It would always take him a few seconds to get his bearings. That just won't do in a running game.

6. Frank Johnson was making the commitment to Big Jake in the morning then finding out that he was traded in the afternoon. For those of you who are not impressed with FJ's coaching abilities, this might be a welcome sign. He's not in the "deal making loop" which means that he is still considered an interim coach for this team and will eventually be kicked somewhere else in the organization.
 

Suns_fan69

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If they're really serious about running this year, and by all accounts they are, then Trybanski better be a good rebounder. With Scott williams needing thumb surgery, he'll have to fill in minutes at the 5 spot to start the season and hopefully he's able to rebound and start the break with a good outlet pass. That's all I really ask of him. If he can defend a little bit, even better.
 

Joe Mama

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1. Marbury
2. Knight
3. Hardaway
4. JJ
5. Casey Jacobsen
6. Barbosa
7. Cabarkapa
8. Marion
9. S. Williams
10. Voskuhl
11. Trybanski
12. Tom Gugliotta
13. Amare Stoudemire
14. Archibald

All of the above players have guaranteed contracts. I have a hard time believing they are just going to let any of those guys go. If D. Johnson is signed the Suns will have a full injured list.

Joe Mama
 

slinslin

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Again Joe where did you see that Archibald has a guaranteed contract?

Voshkul/Williams
Amare/Googs/Zarko
Marion/DerMarr
Penny/Johnson/Jacobsen
Marbury/Barbosa

IR: Tybanski ( weight program) , Archibald, Knight
 

3rdside

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wouldn't the opening day IR be more like Zarko, Williams, Archibald? If not Zarko then maybe Barbosa; if not Williams then maybe Trybanski. Jacobsen might be an IR candidate as well.

I don't see why knight would be on the IR at all.
 

capologist

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Originally posted by Suns_fan69
If they're really serious about running this year, and by all accounts they are, then Trybanski better be a good rebounder. With Scott williams needing thumb surgery, he'll have to fill in minutes at the 5 spot to start the season and hopefully he's able to rebound and start the break with a good outlet pass. That's all I really ask of him. If he can defend a little bit, even better.
Of course, being a good rebounder is always better than not being a good rebounder, but with Shawn and Amare playing beside him, it’s probably not the most important thing. Actually, we’re probably better off if the rebound is grabbed by one of his teammates who has the skills to do something with it.

If you’re expecting Trybanski to demonstrate great floor vision and outlet passing, you’re probably going to be disappointed. By all accounts, he’s pretty raw.

He’ll make a big difference, however, if he can just contribute a few minutes at center without being a major liability, especially defensively. If his man scores easily, or defensive rotations break down when he’s on the floor, then we can’t afford to have him out there. If that doesn’t happen, then anything else he contributes is gravy.
 

capologist

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Originally posted by ...tTs*...
I don't see why knight would be on the IR at all.
The newspaper mentioned yesterday that the Suns waived his physical. I don’t know whether that means he couldn’t pass his physical, or whether it means management didn’t care because he’s not going to play anyway, or whether it means something else. Still, it suggests that Knight may not be on the active roster when the season begins.
 

slinslin

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I don't expect Barbosa to be better than Knight right away but the Suns might still prefer to give Barbosa playing time early on rather than stucking him on the IR and killing his confidence.

Barbosa seems to me like a person who couldn't handle being on the IR although he is healthy.
 

3rdside

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The newspaper mentioned yesterday that the Suns waived his physical.

yeah i saw that also - i just assumed it meant he had passed it at the time. After rereading that line you may be right.

I'm hoping he's fit and ready cause i think he could be really good for this team.
 

elindholm

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The newspaper mentioned yesterday that the Suns waived his physical.

I would guess it means that the Suns don't really care whether Knight is healthy enough to play or not -- they were going to make the trade either way.

However, that doesn't imply that they won't use him if he's available. And my guess is that they will, especially if Hardaway goes down to injury.
 

Chaplin

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Originally posted by elindholm
The newspaper mentioned yesterday that the Suns waived his physical.

I would guess it means that the Suns don't really care whether Knight is healthy enough to play or not -- they were going to make the trade either way.

However, that doesn't imply that they won't use him if he's available. And my guess is that they will, especially if Hardaway goes down to injury.

But why would they waive the physical if there even was a chance he would play for us? It doesn't make sense, unless there was another trade in the works, and if they were confident enough to waive the physical that whatever deal they had going was going to happen, why hasn't it happened already?

Something very fishy is going on, and I don't think sweeping it under the rug is a good enough explanation to me.
 

elindholm

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It's not sweeping it under the rug. The Suns' reasoning could have been this: "If Knight is healthy, he can help us, and that's good. But even if he can't play, we benefit from the salary relief. We'd like to know whether he can play, but if he can't, we want to make the trade anyway. So we can hold off on the physical until closer to the start of the season, which is when it really matters whether he can play or not."

The point of the physical as far as the trade is concerned is to give the Suns a chance to back out. They didn't want to, so they skipped it. But do most players get physicals at the beginning of October? Probably not -- who really cares if they happen to be in perfect shape on that particular day?
 

Joe Mama

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Originally posted by slinslin
Again Joe where did you see that Archibald has a guaranteed contract?

Voshkul/Williams
Amare/Googs/Zarko
Marion/DerMarr
Penny/Johnson/Jacobsen
Marbury/Barbosa

IR: Tybanski ( weight program) , Archibald, Knight

If you remember I was the one who said at first that Archibald's contract is probably not guaranteed for this season. I swear I read somewhere this week that it was though. I thought I read a quote from Bryan Colangelo saying it was guaranteed. I've spent 10-15 minutes looking for it, but I can't find it.

Joe Mama
 

Chaplin

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Originally posted by elindholm
It's not sweeping it under the rug. The Suns' reasoning could have been this: "If Knight is healthy, he can help us, and that's good. But even if he can't play, we benefit from the salary relief. We'd like to know whether he can play, but if he can't, we want to make the trade anyway. So we can hold off on the physical until closer to the start of the season, which is when it really matters whether he can play or not."

The point of the physical as far as the trade is concerned is to give the Suns a chance to back out. They didn't want to, so they skipped it. But do most players get physicals at the beginning of October? Probably not -- who really cares if they happen to be in perfect shape on that particular day?

Ha! How do you know he's healthy if he doesn't take a physical?? Call it posturing or whatever, but isn't the first step to finding out if a player can help you is actually taking a physical?
 

capologist

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Originally posted by elindholm
But do most players get physicals at the beginning of October? Probably not -- who really cares if they happen to be in perfect shape on that particular day?
Players undergo physicals at the start of camp. That’s how Cabarkapa’s hernia was discovered.
 

hcsilla

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Originally posted by capologist
whether it means management didn’t care because he’s not going to play anyway,
.....since he will get moved again.

That was my understanding of the report that Suns waived his physical.
 

elindholm

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Come on, this makes no sense. If the Suns are planning to move Knight again, won't the other team care if he can pass a physical?

The Suns waived the physical because they knew they wanted to make the trade either way.
 

Yuma

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Physicals in a trade have to be made within a certain amount of hours for the trade to be valid. If the physical is not made, then the trade MAY be voided. I don't know if Brevin played summer ball or not, but the Suns may have known he was:

A) healthy already from seeing him play somewhere
B) they wanted the trade to go through so they didn't care
c) they were desperate for cap relief
D) this is just part one of moves they are going to make this year,
so why hold up the future trades.

Anyway, it could have just come down to logistics of not being able to get Brevin here in time for a physical to officially complete the deal. The Suns had the right to waive physicals for all the guys involved in the deal.
 

KK Chub

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Hoops Hype shows Knight on the trading block in the Market Center.
 
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