Thinking About Kerr

[Irish]

(Yes it's George).

I've been away a while, but some things don't change like fears that the Suns will trade way the Hawks pick. I think it is time to recognize that replacing D'Antoni with Kerr as GM has had more of an impact than anyone expected.

We began the season with the fear that Kerr's only job was to cut salaries. Unloading James Jones and Kurt Thomas was hardly the way to endear Kerr to Suns fans. But since then he's made some reasonably good moves:

Last Year's Draft: For the first time in several years, the Suns took two guys in the draft. Strawberry has shown some real promise and Tucker put up excellant number in the D League. D'Antoni hates rookies but Kerr doesn't. This is a real change from years when D'Antoni tried to have only "practice guys" on the deep roster.

Free Agency: Kerr's free agency signing of Hill, Skinner, and Giricek have been pretty good. While the Suns have made some good signings in the past, getting these guys for minimum contracts is not an easy task.

Big Trade: Kerr's decision to trade Marion and Banks for Shaq was certainly a gamble. Shaq hadn't played for a while and appeared to be totally over the hill while Marion had been a key guy on the team's three year run deep into the playoffs and Banks was finally showing promise. Ironicly, it would be Marion and Banks that would go down with injuries rather than Shaq.

Considering the pressure he was under to cut salaries, Kerr grades out reasonably well. Obviously the grade is incomplete (Tucker and Strawberry are unproven, Shaq's health is still a concern, andwho they get in the draft is unknown). But so far it appears that Kerr has a much better idea of what to do as a GM than D'Antoni.

THIS SUMMER

RE-SIGNINGS: Kerr faces a couple of difficult challenges in deciding what to do with Skinner and Giricek. Both have minimum salaries with no guarantee of being in the rotation depending on the draft. It is a tough sell, but losing these guys would hurt the team's depth.

FREE AGENCY: It seems extremely doubtful that Marks and Pike will return. This means that even after signing their draft pick, there will be another slot. With the Suns reputation for being the best rehab center in the NBA, I'd expect them to look at guys with health issues for the this slot, although Kerr may change this.

DRAFT: The Hawk's pick at #15 should get the Suns someone who can help, but it will be incredibly hard to get it right. Ideally, the Suns would get a Chris Paul type point guard to develop, but the guys who will be available are really really small. This is a very good draft for big men, but none appear ready to contribute for two or three years. This leaves the Suns looking at wings who may or may not be better than a more experienced Tucker.

How good is Kerr at personnel evaluation? Strawberry was an absolute steal at #59, even if he's just a bench role player. Landry would have been a better choice than Tucker. But in the late 20's, most picks are a gamble. But when BC took Cabarkapa 2003 ahead of David West, Boris Diaw, Leandro Barbosa, and Josh Howard; it was an unnecessary gamble that blew up.

In any case, looking at the history of the Suns from the JC, BC, and D'Antoni GM periods is not going to tell us much about what Kerr will do this summer. It's a new era..

 

[WuRaider]

Banks was finally showing promise

 

[Hat]

Giricek needs to be absolutely re-signed this summer. I don't care if they have to pay 2-4 million, he's worth it. He plays great defense off the bench and can create his own shot, something you don't see too often.

 

[nowagimp]

(Yes it's George).

I've been away a while, but some things don't change like fears that the Suns will trade way the Hawks pick. I think it is time to recognize that replacing D'Antoni with Kerr as GM has had more of an impact than anyone expected.

We began the season with the fear that Kerr's only job was to cut salaries. Unloading James Jones and Kurt Thomas was hardly the way to endear Kerr to Suns fans. But since then he's made some reasonably good moves:

Last Year's Draft: For the first time in several years, the Suns took two guys in the draft. Strawberry has shown some real promise and Tucker put up excellant number in the D League. D'Antoni hates rookies but Kerr doesn't. This is a real change from years when D'Antoni tried to have only "practice guys" on the deep roster.

Free Agency: Kerr's free agency signing of Hill, Skinner, and Giricek have been pretty good. While the Suns have made some good signings in the past, getting these guys for minimum contracts is not an easy task.

Big Trade: Kerr's decision to trade Marion and Banks for Shaq was certainly a gamble. Shaq hadn't played for a while and appeared to be totally over the hill while Marion had been a key guy on the team's three year run deep into the playoffs and Banks was finally showing promise. Ironicly, it would be Marion and Banks that would go down with injuries rather than Shaq.

Considering the pressure he was under to cut salaries, Kerr grades out reasonably well. Obviously the grade is incomplete (Tucker and Strawberry are unproven, Shaq's health is still a concern, andwho they get in the draft is unknown). But so far it appears that Kerr has a much better idea of what to do as a GM than D'Antoni.

THIS SUMMER

RE-SIGNINGS: Kerr faces a couple of difficult challenges in deciding what to do with Skinner and Giricek. Both have minimum salaries with no guarantee of being in the rotation depending on the draft. It is a tough sell, but losing these guys would hurt the team's depth.

FREE AGENCY: It seems extremely doubtful that Marks and Pike will return. This means that even after signing their draft pick, there will be another slot. With the Suns reputation for being the best rehab center in the NBA, I'd expect them to look at guys with health issues for the this slot, although Kerr may change this.

DRAFT: The Hawk's pick at #15 should get the Suns someone who can help, but it will be incredibly hard to get it right. Ideally, the Suns would get a Chris Paul type point guard to develop, but the guys who will be available are really really small. This is a very good draft for big men, but none appear ready to contribute for two or three years. This leaves the Suns looking at wings who may or may not be better than a more experienced Tucker.

How good is Kerr at personnel evaluation? Strawberry was an absolute steal at #59, even if he's just a bench role player. Landry would have been a better choice than Tucker. But in the late 20's, most picks are a gamble. But when BC took Cabarkapa 2003 ahead of David West, Boris Diaw, Leandro Barbosa, and Josh Howard; it was an unnecessary gamble that blew up.

In any case, looking at the history of the Suns from the JC, BC, and D'Antoni GM periods is not going to tell us much about what Kerr will do this summer. It's a new era..

Its easy to give all the credit to Kerr, but really do you think that skinner, giricek and hill signed because of kerr or DA? I suspect Giricek signed because of the DA system, hes a euro and wanted that style. Or perhaps Hill signed because of the rehabilitation staff, and he even said he liked the light practices, a DA trademark. There is also the rumour that the shaq trade was a result of marion wanting to leave and direct contact between the owners. I like Kerr, but its typical for 1 guy to get all the credit (or the blame) when mostly modern management is more of a consensus decision making process than a command decision. Again I like steve kerr, but he didnt seek out the shaq trade, the owner of the heat did apparently, so kerr didnt burn up the phone line looking to find a good deal to get a big man. You can look at it this way, the KG deal fell through, but they recovered with shaq. Im betting neither of those guys was even available last year when DA was GM. As we learned from the gasol trade, sometimes it just falls into your lap, the trade partner isnt even looking for the best deal, they may want the best "tanking" deal.

 

[az1965]

Banks was finally showing promise

Not really.

it would be Marion and Banks that would go down with injuries rather than Shaq

Probably because Heat went into full tank mode.

But so far it appears that Kerr has a much better idea of what to do as a GM than D'Antoni.

DUH! D'Antoni is a lousy GM.

PS. Why do you keep changing your user name???

 

[Chris_Sanders]

George,

It is against site rules to have more than one account. Do you want to keep this one or go with George O'Brien?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Last Year's Draft: For the first time in several years, the Suns took two guys in the draft. Strawberry has shown some real promise and Tucker put up excellant number in the D League. D'Antoni hates rookies but Kerr doesn't. This is a real change from years when D'Antoni tried to have only "practice guys" on the deep roster.

This draft was a colossal failure. They sold a draft pick for cash and nothing else and a team 6 picks later sold a draft pick for the same amount of money to the same team and got a second round pick as well.

That is incredible mismanagement.

Carl Landry, Glen Davis, Nick Fazekas, Ramon Sessions, and Aaron Affalo have all had larger impacts than Tucker and could have been had with our pick.

Free Agency: Kerr's free agency signing of Hill, Skinner, and Giricek have been pretty good. While the Suns have made some good signings in the past, getting these guys for minimum contracts is not an easy task.

Hill came to play for D'Antoni. Giricek came to play for D'Antoni. These signings had nothing to do with hard work on Kerr's part.

Big Trade: Kerr's decision to trade Marion and Banks for Shaq was certainly a gamble. Shaq hadn't played for a while and appeared to be totally over the hill while Marion had been a key guy on the team's three year run deep into the playoffs and Banks was finally showing promise. Ironicly, it would be Marion and Banks that would go down with injuries rather than Shaq.

The trade still can't be graded until we see the playoffs. If the Suns flame out in the first or second round than the trade is a big failure.

 

[elindholm]

If the Suns flame out in the first or second round than the trade is a big failure.

How do you figure? Remind me what valuable assets the Suns gave up?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

How do you figure? Remind me what valuable assets the Suns gave up?

A massive expiring contract and took on 40 million in salary. That's cut and dry to any team other than the Suns who trade expiring contracts and cash for cap space.

If the Suns don't make the Western Conference finals than the trade is a huge bust.

 

[cobbler]

A massive expiring contract and took on 40 million in salary. That's cut and dry to any team other than the Suns who trade expiring contracts and cash for cap space.

If the Suns don't make the Western Conference finals than the trade is a huge bust.

I have to agree there. On the money front (luxury tax), I dont think the 40 mil is a huge thing business wise because of all the marketing that comes with Shaq to offset it. Salary cap and length of contract are the big issues. It has been stated a billion times that the suns traded for shaq to win THIS YEAR. Not the West.... the CHAMPIONSHIP. So I would say anything less than a competitive finals appearance would most definetly be a bust.

 

[Cheesewater]

Since the Shaq trade, I've enjoyed watching Suns basketball and being a Suns fan much more than in the recent past. Therefore, the trade is a success.

 

[Irish]

George,

It is against site rules to have more than one account. Do you want to keep this one or go with George O'Brien?

My old password doesn't work any more. I'll stick with Irish.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

This draft was a colossal failure. They sold a draft pick for cash and nothing else and a team 6 picks later sold a draft pick for the same amount of money to the same team and got a second round pick as well.

That is incredible mismanagement.

Carl Landry, Glen Davis, Nick Fazekas, Ramon Sessions, and Aaron Affalo have all had larger impacts than Tucker and could have been had with our pick.

True on the second part. One the first part you can't blame a GM when his owner forces his hand. When Sarver tells Kerr "shed KT's salary by this date or else" there is not much Kerr can manuever.

Hill came to play for D'Antoni. Giricek came to play for D'Antoni. These signings had nothing to do with hard work on Kerr's part.

Mike D'Antoni works under Steve Kerr, therefore Kerr gets credit or criticism when something D'Antoni is responsible for succeeds or fails. Does your boy Bryan Colangelo not deserve any credit when all those vets came here to play with Jason Kidd?

The trade still can't be graded until we see the playoffs. If the Suns flame out in the first or second round than the trade is a big failure.

As opposed to last year when the Suns flamed out in the second round? Or the year before when it took minor miracles to get through two garbage teams before getting run out of the gym by a soft Mavericks team?

The trade was genius mostly in that it was a huge act of goodwill to the franchise's two most important players in Amare Stoudemire and Steve Nash and also ensures that the team will not fall off the map after Nash's retirement due to the max-slot the Suns will have in 2010 when there will be some future HOF's looking to change addresses.

And most importantly, Steve Kerr in less than one year on the job has finally made this organization and it's fans realize that small ball is a facade and defense and rebounding need to be prioritized if the ultimate goal is winning a championship. Had we kept the status quo you so openly pine for we would've continued the same tired, ring-less act this franchise has endured for the last forty years. Smart basketball fans were sick of that act, other ones still want their ridiculous "at least we're fun to watch" and regular season warriors security blankets.

 

[az1965]

A massive expiring contract and took on 40 million in salary. That's cut and dry to any team other than the Suns who trade expiring contracts and cash for cap space.

If the Suns don't make the Western Conference finals than the trade is a huge bust.

Yes, I agree!

 

[az1965]

Since the Shaq trade, I've enjoyed watching Suns basketball and being a Suns fan much more than in the recent past. Therefore, the trade is a success.

That is true the trade has created some excitement but we paid a huge price for that. I'm still pissed about so many draft picks sold for cash when we could have had a solid depth in 2-3 years.

 

[elindholm]

A massive expiring contract and took on 40 million in salary. That's cut and dry to any team other than the Suns who trade expiring contracts and cash for cap space.

Not really. Expiring contracts by themselves are valuable only to (a) teams who are currently rebuilding or (b) teams willing to take on mediocre-to-bad contracts in return. The Suns were neither.

There are no recent examples of a team getting something of value for only an expiring contract. Expiring contracts are critical pieces to make deals work when a high-salaried player is involved, but the team with the expiring contract has to include other enticements. (We'll ignore the Gasol trade since that was obviously anomalous.) Thus Ratliff's expiring contract was essential to get Garnett, but only because the Celtics also ponied up a rising young talent and a high draft pick.

Marion, by himself, wasn't going to get the Suns anything worthwhile. Had they wanted to package him with Barbosa and the Atlanta pick, back when the Atlanta pick looked lottery-bound, that might have been worth something. But the Suns had steadfastly refused to consider any deals like that, unless you count the rumored offer for Bryant.

The Marion/O'Neal trade was one value-neutral package for another. The only drawback comes in 2010-11, but the Suns will be so screwed by then anyway that it hardly matters.

 

[elindholm]

I'm still pissed about so many draft picks sold for cash when we could have had a solid depth in 2-3 years.

Sure, but those errors don't impact how this trade should be evaluated.

 

[Irish]

Banks' stats were not nearly as grim this season as last year. He actually put up adequate numbers in Miami before getting injured 9.5 ppg, 51.2% shooting and 40.5% for three. None the less, there is little doubt that the Heat accepted his contract to get rid of Shaq's. If Banks is perceived as being as bad as everyone thinks, then it makes Kerr's trading of him all the more impressive.

As for whether Kerr was responsible for the success at getting free agents - that's a tough question. Sometimes GM's get credit for just being lucky. Of course luck is not evenly distributed.

As for Tucker, it is hard to know if he's going to turn out to be a good player. By reputation, the main concern is his offense and his 26 ppg in the D-League suggests he could be useful. However, with D'Antoni's aversion to rookies, there has been little opportunity to find out.

 

[Mainstreet]

THIS SUMMER

RE-SIGNINGS: Kerr faces a couple of difficult challenges in deciding what to do with Skinner and Giricek. Both have minimum salaries with no guarantee of being in the rotation depending on the draft. It is a tough sell, but losing these guys would hurt the team's depth.

FREE AGENCY: It seems extremely doubtful that Marks and Pike will return. This means that even after signing their draft pick, there will be another slot. With the Suns reputation for being the best rehab center in the NBA, I'd expect them to look at guys with health issues for the this slot, although Kerr may change this.

DRAFT: The Hawk's pick at #15 should get the Suns someone who can help, but it will be incredibly hard to get it right. Ideally, the Suns would get a Chris Paul type point guard to develop, but the guys who will be available are really really small. This is a very good draft for big men, but none appear ready to contribute for two or three years. This leaves the Suns looking at wings who may or may not be better than a more experienced Tucker.

How good is Kerr at personnel evaluation? Strawberry was an absolute steal at #59, even if he's just a bench role player. Landry would have been a better choice than Tucker. But in the late 20's, most picks are a gamble. But when BC took Cabarkapa 2003 ahead of David West, Boris Diaw, Leandro Barbosa, and Josh Howard; it was an unnecessary gamble that blew up.

In regard to FA's, IMO the Suns absolutely need to keep Giricek and Skinner on their roster for next season.

Concerning the draft, I just fear Kerr may draft a player like Budinger because of his UA connections. They already have two guards to develop Strawberry and Tucker (although Tucker may be considered a SF). The Suns don't need more guards/SF's to develop unless they find a Rudy Gay type talent or fill a need like PG. I would rather the Suns draft a big for development at C and trade for a PG. The more I look at tapes of a player like Hibbert, I'm not so sure he couldn't develop into a future NBA center. This may be the Suns best chance to pick up a potential quality big man for quite some time.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Concerning the draft, I just fear Kerr may draft a player like Budinger because of his UA connections.

Have Sarver or Kerr ever brought in anybody based on UA connections? They've passed on many UA players since their arrival (let's not forget the Andre Igoudala mess, and they tried to trade up for Ike Diogu and not Channing Frye) and since Chase's game in no way resembles what Kerr is trying to instill in this team it ain't going to happen. There's a much better chance Mike D'Antoni pushes for Chase than Steve Kerr.

The thought that Kerr drafts Budinger is nothing more than pro-Sun Devil paranoid nonsense.

 

[sLapzsHaQ]

A massive expiring contract and took on 40 million in salary. That's cut and dry to any team other than the Suns who trade expiring contracts and cash for cap space.

If the Suns don't make the Western Conference finals than the trade is a huge bust.

Do you really think you can go out the 1st round, facing the Spurs, with Marion?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Do you really think you can go out the 1st round, facing the Spurs, with Marion?

No I don't believe that at all. Of course they likely would have had the #1 seed with Marion and thus would play the Nuggets. In any event, if the Suns only make it to the first or second round this trade was little more than a lateral move. I also don't consider a lateral move with huge financial implications a success.

For the trade to be a success the Suns need to make it to the WCF.

 

[cly2tw]

How do you figure? Remind me what valuable assets the Suns gave up?

A massive expiring contract and took on 40 million in salary. That's cut and dry to any team other than the Suns who trade expiring contracts and cash for cap space.

If the Suns don't make the Western Conference finals than the trade is a huge bust.

I thought Chris would've answered with "the max-contract caliber, best complementary player alltime".

But honestly, with Shaq's displayed playing condition, we are better off as a team even if we don't get into WCF this year. Without the trade, everybody would be bitter one way or another, just because we all had predicted what were to ensue for the Suns, namely nowhere to go and no future.

 

[Chaplin]

No I don't believe that at all. Of course they likely would have had the #1 seed with Marion and thus would play the Nuggets. In any event, if the Suns only make it to the first or second round this trade was little more than a lateral move. I also don't consider a lateral move with huge financial implications a success.

For the trade to be a success the Suns need to make it to the WCF.

I'd like to hear your detailed reasoning Chris about how you could possibly think the Suns would have gotten the #1 seed with Marion. I suppose it's possible, but come on.

 

[cly2tw]

Welcome back, George!

Where have you been lately?

Anyway, I think the best value generated by Kerr's moves so far is to force DA to abandon his "philosophy" out of necessity for this season and likely forcing him out completely next season, as his style worn out its welcome by the trophy-crazed Suns fanatics in the mean while.

Gira is a must-do at reasonable price of say 3mil per or half of the MLE. Skinner is less of relevance now as he has become an offensive liability a la Hunter with our core of Shaq/Amare in there.

We gotta get rid of Barbosa, and hopefully Diaw too, when the value is still high. (What if we traded Marion for Chandler when we had a chance!) If Diaw keeps his newly found aggression through the playoffs, we might get Philly to do LB/Diaw for Iguadala/Evans.

With DA gone, we'll use DJ and Tucker and our #15 pick, but we still need one more big and one backup PG. Portland have PGs aplenty. And maybe we could get Amir Johnson for 3m per?