This is not a champ offense without hop

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I would love Shenault..he’s a guy that would give your team momentum with the way he plays. He’s more that Deebo Samuels player than what Moore could ever be. Very physical.

Yup. Living Laviska Loca would come closest to replicating Deebo. And when he scores we could yell OY SHENAULT!

 

[DVontel]

I only want Shenault if he’s a RB 90% of the time. Guy still can’t catch & struggles to find out what route he is supposed to run.

 

[SoonerLou]

Shenault is not worth it. Just like I told guys Curtis Samuel wasnt worth the money in the offseason.

We need natural wrs. Enough of the gimmicks.

 

[Cardinal88]

I hope we go 185 MPH with trick plays, gadget plays, power running, strategic Murray carries (starting under center). This could be epic!

 

[slanidrac16]

intentional?

Deep.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Rondale Moore has 435 yes on 54 catches with an 8.1 average.


Rondale Moore has an average depth of reception of 1.2 yards.

So of his 435 yds about 385 yds is yac.

It's usage and play design...throw him the ball ten yards down field and the kid is at a thousand yards on 54 catches.....

Sort of anyway...it doesn't exactly work like that... but the kid has shown the ability to get yac either through elusiveness or broken tackles ... but bubble screens don't allow for many explosive huge plays

That's what he has always been good at, YAC. He excelled at it at Purdue under Jeff Brohm, quick slants or get him in space & he made people miss.

 

[oaken1]

What ? “ Our Oline is decent prob too 10 in the league”

That’s about the most far off post I’ve seen on this board.

you have any data other than it looks like I am full of ****?

I just did a google search and the lowest ranking I saw for the unit was 14

so yeah...not that far off.
I mean, I see the game threads where everybody is crying over every sack like its the lines fault... but when you get out of the echo chamber, the facts are quite different. the line is pretty good... a large portion of the sacks/hurries/pressures/hits fall squarely on the fact that kyler does not work the pocket,... he runs into the arc,...and he holds the ball too long.

its low hanging fruit for a cardinal fan to cry over the oline,...been doing it endlessly for decades and mostly for good reason. But this unit isnt horrible like so many in the past. anyone with game knowledge that watches the games can see that

 

[daves]

You think 16th is nothing special? Weird.

My overall list was the top 151 players with the most receiving yards, regardless of position. I chose 151 because Edmonds is #151 and i wanted to include him.

Of those 151, 21 are RBs, and when it comes to YAC per catch, Edmonds is ranked 16th among those 21.

Overall, RBs tend to have high YAC since, like Rondale Moore, they often catch the ball behind the line of scrimmage with room to run. The last of the 21 RBs on my list was Leonard Fournette, who's ranked 32nd on the overall list. Edmonds is 22nd overall, but that's nothing special considering where he ranks among fellow RBs.

...dave

 

[Cards_Campos]

One or two trick plays is not going to win in the playoffs.

It did for the 2008 Cardinals. We looked completely different that playoffs. And we did run quite a few trick plays. But we did have Fitz at all world level

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

you have any data other than it looks like I am full of ****?

I just did a google search and the lowest ranking I saw for the unit was 14

so yeah...not that far off.
I mean, I see the game threads where everybody is crying over every sack like its the lines fault... but when you get out of the echo chamber, the facts are quite different. the line is pretty good... a large portion of the sacks/hurries/pressures/hits fall squarely on the fact that kyler does not work the pocket,... he runs into the arc,...and he holds the ball too long.

its low hanging fruit for a cardinal fan to cry over the oline,...been doing it endlessly for decades and mostly for good reason. But this unit isnt horrible like so many in the past. anyone with game knowledge that watches the games can see that

I totally get what you're saying. Yes Kyler doesn't step up in the pocket much but there's probably a good reason for that, his height. The closer he gets to a dude that's 6'2-4" the harder it is for him to see. It's just something we're gonna have to get used to I suppose? Our OL could be stronger for sure but it's easy for us to say that it totally sucks. The reason at times it looks like it sucks is maybe because of Kyler panicking & not being tall enough to see, therefore he starts running for his life & that looks bad. I'm sure the numbers say that we're the 14th best OL, sounds about right for an OL that plays up & down or looks that way even. Kugler is a damn good OL coach but in his defense for the bad play, he's really had to mix & match combinations all season long, that's tough. It was said our starters were all there for the first time against Seattle, well..............we saw how that turned out, not good. Maybe they were out of sync because of having little time together? I can tell you this much, if Pugh or Garcia doesn't figure out how to do a decent job on Donald monday, it's gonna be a long night for Kyler. I'm not as worried about Humphries, Hudson or Beachum. I'd much rather have Justin Murray at RG than Garcia but unfortunately that's not an option. I really love the blocking scheme that Shanahan uses with the 49ers, I wish Kugler would take a page out of their playbook against the Rams cause it works for sure. The Rams can't stop that rushing attack.

 

[daves]

It was said our starters were all there for the first time against Seattle

Not exactly... it was said that the Cards' starters in Seattle were all playing together for the first time since week 14 against the Rams, and for the 6th time this season. The Cardinals are now 4-2 with all 5 starters.

The Cards' O-line has had its share of injuries, but overall i'd guess it's been healthier than most this season.

...dave

 

[DaHilg]

you have any data other than it looks like I am full of ****?

I just did a google search and the lowest ranking I saw for the unit was 14

so yeah...not that far off.
I mean, I see the game threads where everybody is crying over every sack like its the lines fault... but when you get out of the echo chamber, the facts are quite different. the line is pretty good... a large portion of the sacks/hurries/pressures/hits fall squarely on the fact that kyler does not work the pocket,... he runs into the arc,...and he holds the ball too long.

its low hanging fruit for a cardinal fan to cry over the oline,...been doing it endlessly for decades and mostly for good reason. But this unit isnt horrible like so many in the past. anyone with game knowledge that watches the games can see that

“Rankings” on the Oline is about the most subjective position to grade. Kyler frustrated the heck out of me taking long sacks time and time again - he needs to throw the ball away.. at the same time there is NO pocket to step up in - regardless of what one thinks of his height. I am confident he avoids MANY more sacks than he takes with his athletic ability, pumping up rankings. Our guards suck - period. They should not be starters for any team in the NFL. That pocket collapses against even the weakest defensive lines in the league (Texans game). Hump is not good, he’s average and over paid (and this is me ignoring his disastrous Seahawks game). Beachum is average, but his ability to switch to the left side against Dallas impressed be - he’s the 2nd most valuable player on the line for his versatility alone. Hudson is our only + lineman that even a casual fan can see makes an impact, when he plays.

We need to do what KC did. Revamp darn near the whole line. If they needed to doit for the Might Mahomes, surely we should doit for our less inept fragile midget terrible franchise QB.

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

this thread is so spot on that it hurts. I can't handle the truth!

 

[THESMEL]

“Rankings” on the Oline is about the most subjective position to grade. Kyler frustrated the heck out of me taking long sacks time and time again - he needs to throw the ball away.. at the same time there is NO pocket to step up in - regardless of what one thinks of his height. I am confident he avoids MANY more sacks than he takes with his athletic ability, pumping up rankings. Our guards suck - period. They should not be starters for any team in the NFL. That pocket collapses against even the weakest defensive lines in the league (Texans game). Hump is not good, he’s average and over paid (and this is me ignoring his disastrous Seahawks game). Beachum is average, but his ability to switch to the left side against Dallas impressed be - he’s the 2nd most valuable player on the line for his versatility alone. Hudson is our only + lineman that even a casual fan can see makes an impact, when he plays.

We need to do what KC did. Revamp darn near the whole line. If they needed to doit for the Might Mahomes, surely we should doit for our less inept fragile midget terrible franchise QB.

Dude, we’re going to pass, its not a hard guess, I mean empty backfield let’s trick em with and end around, our oline has received maximum pressure for 15 years. Rarely does a defense pay for aggressive pass call against the cards, occasional quick pass will burn the blitz. Occasional draw, but yea keep the pass d in and your 75% prepared for our oline.

i mean our team leading pro bowl running back, is not the starter! Has 202 carries 15 tds and 750 yards in regular season. I don’t know Conner starts for like 25 teams in the NFL, but not cards, why chase is good in protection and pass catcher with speed. He had 18 carries, did good, beat up, I like him, is not a bell cow, that can earn play action like Conner can, just ain’t.

 

[slanidrac16]

Dude, we’re going to pass, its not a hard guess, I mean empty backfield let’s trick em with and end around, our oline has received maximum pressure for 15 years. Rarely does a defense pay for aggressive pass call against the cards, occasional quick pass will burn the blitz. Occasional draw, but yea keep the pass d in and your 75% prepared for our oline.

i mean our team leading pro bowl running back, is not the starter! Has 202 carries 15 tds and 750 yards in regular season. I don’t know Conner starts for like 25 teams in the NFL, but not cards, why chase is good in protection and pass catcher with speed. He had 18 carries, did good, beat up, I like him, is not a bell cow, that can earn play action like Conner can, just ain’t.

With this o-line I dread empty backfield sets. But if we are going to do it we need to move Kyler off the spot on the snap. We can’t let their defence know where he’s going to set up.

 

[juza76]

Kirk is adequate fast, no yards after the catch, questionable hands especially in clutch moments

Green can still get separation, makes nice catch but also drops too many, several times looks disinterested, not committed to the game

Wesley is a 5/6 th receiver who is playing second

Ertz, great hands nice routes, but too slow, no yards after the catch, he took extremely well the Larry Fitzgerald last year role

Rondale Moore wasted in the backfield

Back up tigh ends?

RBs, the bright spot, Conner and Edmonds is a nice duo to split carries, even depth is good
All our rbs are extremely good catching the football

Offensive line, average at best, beside Hudson and Beachum can be easily upgraded, Justin Murray is missed

 

[TheCardFan]

This would have been an interesting move for us.

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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

My overall list was the top 151 players with the most receiving yards, regardless of position. I chose 151 because Edmonds is #151 and i wanted to include him.

Of those 151, 21 are RBs, and when it comes to YAC per catch, Edmonds is ranked 16th among those 21.

Overall, RBs tend to have high YAC since, like Rondale Moore, they often catch the ball behind the line of scrimmage with room to run. The last of the 21 RBs on my list was Leonard Fournette, who's ranked 32nd on the overall list. Edmonds is 22nd overall, but that's nothing special considering where he ranks among fellow RBs.

...dave

I misunderstood. I thought he was 16th of the 151 not just the rbs.

 

[Russ Smith]

“Rankings” on the Oline is about the most subjective position to grade. Kyler frustrated the heck out of me taking long sacks time and time again - he needs to throw the ball away.. at the same time there is NO pocket to step up in - regardless of what one thinks of his height. I am confident he avoids MANY more sacks than he takes with his athletic ability, pumping up rankings. Our guards suck - period. They should not be starters for any team in the NFL. That pocket collapses against even the weakest defensive lines in the league (Texans game). Hump is not good, he’s average and over paid (and this is me ignoring his disastrous Seahawks game). Beachum is average, but his ability to switch to the left side against Dallas impressed be - he’s the 2nd most valuable player on the line for his versatility alone. Hudson is our only + lineman that even a casual fan can see makes an impact, when he plays.

We need to do what KC did. Revamp darn near the whole line. If they needed to doit for the Might Mahomes, surely we should doit for our less inept fragile midget terrible franchise QB.

he does take sacks he doesn't need to but yeah he avoids them too.

There's a highlight reel on youtube of the 2nd Rams game the loss, it's most of the plays from both teams. I watched it yesterday while eating lunch. There's 5-6 plays in that game where Kyler steps up in the pocket to beat a rusher and completes the ball or runs with it, saved several sacks. When i was watching it I kept thinking I wish he did that more consistently. He took a couple of bad sacks in that game too and the best play in the entire game he made was a play where he didn't get the ball out quickly to an open guy, circled around backwards but then made an amazing play getting outside and hitting AJ Green who made a leaping catch. So he turned an easy play into a sack, then escaped the sack and wound up getting like 25 yards downfield to Green.

 

[SoonerLou]

This would have been an interesting move for us.

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Would have been a legit downfield threat.

 

[SoonerLou]

Hops short term injuries and long term showed that without him on the field, this offense can't win games for you. Every since Hopkins left, it's basically been pray we can beat someone.

The watt loss decimated the defense too but not as bad as the offense. I'm not confident we get far into the post season aside from some luck.

Kirk is too hot and cold

Green lacks focus and passion
Ertz can only do so much

Murray gets to irritated with his players, his body language is terrible like he thinks everyone is holding him back.

If hop stepped on the field though, we score with precision because people are open every play. It's a whole different team.

Even when hip was hurt and only played a few plays one game....when he was on the field at 50% we moved down field with ease. The same game when he left the field, we looked like a pop Warner team.

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[dreamcastrocks]

This would have been an interesting move for us.

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Yep, I would sign him to our active roster.

 

[oaken1]

“Rankings” on the Oline is about the most subjective position to grade. Kyler frustrated the heck out of me taking long sacks time and time again - he needs to throw the ball away.. at the same time there is NO pocket to step up in - regardless of what one thinks of his height. I am confident he avoids MANY more sacks than he takes with his athletic ability, pumping up rankings. Our guards suck - period. They should not be starters for any team in the NFL. That pocket collapses against even the weakest defensive lines in the league (Texans game). Hump is not good, he’s average and over paid (and this is me ignoring his disastrous Seahawks game). Beachum is average, but his ability to switch to the left side against Dallas impressed be - he’s the 2nd most valuable player on the line for his versatility alone. Hudson is our only + lineman that even a casual fan can see makes an impact, when he plays.

We need to do what KC did. Revamp darn near the whole line. If they needed to doit for the Might Mahomes, surely we should doit for our less inept fragile midget terrible franchise QB.

I agree they can be better. we need to draft an early center this year as Hudson aint getting any younger and a new kid has to develop,...so draft a kid at center, play him at RG for the next couple seasons so he can learn the line calls and such.
I think the biggest issue this year with our line is just that they never really gelled...injuries, covid, whatever...they havent played together...we knew coming into the season the right side was weak...the jury is still out on josh jones,... the kid is only 24 and adding strength in the off season should help his game.....wont help with the false starts though.
these subjective rankings show how hard it really is to put together a truly dominant oline in the NFL...most of our guys are ranked top third in pass protection, but bottom third in run blocking.... although I saw an interesting stat on one site... this line has an average YBC...yards before contact... of like 0.86 which is actually pretty high
imagine,...had we drafted Creed Humphry last year instead of collins,...and had Creed playing RG all this season

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I agree they can be better. we need to draft an early center this year as Hudson aint getting any younger and a new kid has to develop,...so draft a kid at center, play him at RG for the next couple seasons so he can learn the line calls and such.
I think the biggest issue this year with our line is just that they never really gelled...injuries, covid, whatever...they havent played together...we knew coming into the season the right side was weak...the jury is still out on josh jones,... the kid is only 24 and adding strength in the off season should help his game.....wont help with the false starts though.
these subjective rankings show how hard it really is to put together a truly dominant oline in the NFL...most of our guys are ranked top third in pass protection, but bottom third in run blocking.... although I saw an interesting stat on one site... this line has an average YBC...yards before contact... of like 0.86 which is actually pretty high
imagine,...had we drafted Creed Humphry last year instead of collins,...and had Creed playing RG all this season

We can't. Hudson has at least 2-3 good seasons left in him and we may very well need 2 OGs this off season let alone other positions that are bare ( the entire DL, CB, maybe even WR)

 

[TheCardFan]

Interesting.

I think we were 8-2 with Hopkins and 3-4 without him.

He didn't have great stats but definitely brought value to the offense.

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