This is where everyone admits that you don't have a clue who we're taking at #6

[Ed B]

Originally posted by kerouac9
I don't know. Corners always sound like sure things, and then you forget about their production by the end of the season, because there are so many of them. Look at last year's lack of impressive 1st Round, "sure thing" corners:

Quentin Jammer - Did nothing.
Mike Rumph - Every WR that matched up with him had a great day; became a favorite target for opposing QBs, especially on 3rd down.
Lito Sheppard: Never cracked the starting lineup.
Phillip Buchanon: Had a good start; got hurt.

Show me an article that called Rumph or Sheppard "sure things". Most mocks actually had them going in the second.

You're comparing apples and oranges.....Newman and Trufant (guys who are considered top-10 picks) with any old corner who gets drafted in the bottom of the first. There will be a number of corners this year (Weathersby, Woolfork, etc) who get picked between 20-32 and get scorched just as badly as Rumph and Sheppard.

Comparing the elite players in the top 5 or 7 of the draft to guys who snuck into round 1 is not fair.

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by Ed B
It's still better than if we had taken John Tait!

And don't forget that Tobin had to be talked out of taking Katzenmoyer instead of Shelton later in that same round.

Man, Tait and Katzenmoyer......what a disaster that draft could have been.

What is the deal with Tait. He was so highly regarded?

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Ed B
Show me an article that called Rumph or Sheppard "sure things". Most mocks actually had them going in the second.

You're comparing apples and oranges.....Newman and Trufant (guys who are considered top-10 picks) with any old corner who gets drafted in the bottom of the first. There will be a number of corners this year (Weathersby, Woolfork, etc) who get picked between 20-32 and get scorched just as badly as Rumph and Sheppard.

Comparing the elite players in the top 5 or 7 of the draft to guys who snuck into round 1 is not fair.

Sure, ignore the fact that last year's "can't miss--NEXT DEION SANDERS/CHARLES WOODSON ONLY BETTER" CB in Quentin Jammer, who did absolutely nothing but complain about not gettin' paid and then totally underperform. He's going to be the defensive Thomas Jones.

 

[Skkorpion]

Originally posted by RedStorm
What is the deal with Tait. He was so highly regarded?

Yes, Red Storm, he was. We passed on him, Kansas City didn't, and paid LT money to get an average RT player. Meanwhile, we have LJ Shelton, who is probably locked in as our LT for the next 6 years.

One of Bob Ferguson's best picks.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
LJ Shelton, who is probably locked in as our LT for the next 6 years.

But what about Big? Is he stuck at LG for his Cardinal career?

 

[mizzoucardfan]

I don't know why the previous posters knocked Tait. He was originally a LT and had a successful rookie campaign, regressed 2 yr. ago under a new Line coach . Was moved to RT last year to make room for Willie Roaf and had an acknowledged outstanding year. The Chiefs consider him to be a key part of what they call the best O-line in the NFL.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

i will readily admit that katzenmoyer has stunk at the nfl level. not only that, i'll go one better and say that even had he not gotten injured he would have ended up stinking. before the injury he was having difficulty seeing the field because he was too stiff in the hips to be effective at anything other than runstopping. and i thought the big kat was gonna be soooo good. i was soooo wrong.

 

[Ed B]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Sure, ignore the fact that last year's "can't miss--NEXT DEION SANDERS/CHARLES WOODSON ONLY BETTER" CB in Quentin Jammer, who did absolutely nothing but complain about not gettin' paid and then totally underperform. He's going to be the defensive Thomas Jones.

Well, if you're clairvoyant and know for a fact that he's going to be a bust, there's no point in arguing. Every publication I've laid eyes on said he played great at the end of his holdout, but I didn't watch much San Diego so I don't know.

If there's going to be a defensive Thomas Jones from the 2002 draft, it'll probably be Bryant.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by kerouac9
I don't know. Corners always sound like sure things, and then you forget about their production by the end of the season, because there are so many of them. Look at last year's lack of impressive 1st Round, "sure thing" corners:

Quentin Jammer - Did nothing.
Mike Rumph - Every WR that matched up with him had a great day; became a favorite target for opposing QBs, especially on 3rd down.
Lito Sheppard: Never cracked the starting lineup.
Phillip Buchanon: Had a good start; got hurt.

Later-round corners, such as Tony (Travis?) Fisher of the Rams, Chris Cash of the Lions, and Derek Ross of the Cowboys, had a lot more success.

Personally, I don't see a huge need at Corner, where we have to draft one, when we have such glaring needs that aren't obviously going to be able to be addressed through free agency.

With your later round corners you forgot to add the University of South Carolina duo of Andre Goodman and Sheldon Brown.

Goodman was by far the best corner for the Lions last year, and Sheldon Brown actually beat out Lito Sheppard with the Eagles. Neither Brown nor Sheppard were supposed to start since the Eagles had Vincent, Taylor, Harris ahead of them.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
But what about Big? Is he stuck at LG for his Cardinal career? ]

"Stuck" at LG??? First of all I wouldn't agree with that assessment at all. Shelton has done a good job at LT, in fact, so far, he seems to be a better pass blocker than either Big or Clement. I find it lucicrous that people keep harping on moving Big to tackle just because thats where he played in college. . . and apparently ignoring the fact that he may very well be much more effective in the overall team scheme at guard than tackle (and also taking into account that we already have LJ and Clement). This has been discussed SOOO many times in the past. Larry Allen of the cowboys is a perfect example of how a college tackle eventually went on to become one of the all-time great guards to play the game, and helped the Dallas O-line to become one of the best of all-time too.

And secondly Big doesn't play LG......Pete Kendall does.

If you look at how the team is shaping up now, I think its obvious that they want their first priority to be..... to have and effective power running game. They have the talent to do it. I predict they will use the running game to set up the passing game, not vice versa. This whole offensive line in generally a better run blocking line than they are passing, and LJ is probably the best pass blocker on the team right now. All indications are that they would like to stretch the field a little more with their receivers. Again, they seem to have the talent suited for that in the young WR's they have and Blake.

The ONLY even remotely credible arguement I have ever seen in regard to having a talent like Big is the money thing. But again, as with Allen and I think more and more teams, including the Cards.... will pay top money to players like Big even though he is a guard instead of LT. I think Big and Clement are the primary keys to that power running game. Big is awesome at guard.
Anyone want to bet the Cards won't pay Big "left tackle" money when his new contract comes up??????

 

[Stout]

But Big may decide not to take our LT money and may go to a team that will play him as a LT. I'm only speculating, and I'm not saying this is a reason to move him, but the man may just want to play his position.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by Stout
But Big may decide not to take our LT money and may go to a team that will play him as a LT. I'm only speculating, and I'm not saying this is a reason to move him, but the man may just want to play his position.

Where has this ever even been remotely hinted at by ANYONE, especially Big...other than in YOUR (and maybe a couple of other posters here) speculation?????

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Where has this ever even been remotely hinted at by ANYONE, especially Big...other than in YOUR (and maybe a couple of other posters here) speculation????? [/B]

For the love of God, Tango, calm down. I mean, you're sounding like a complete moron. Why are you jumping my case? I said things like 'I'm just speculating' and 'not that it would necessarily cause him to' in my post.

That's what it is: SPECULATION!!! Based on the fact that if I were playing in the NFL and a team had me starting as a DT, I might consider moving to another team for less money if they wanted me to start at DE. Why? Quite simply because that is (or was) my position.

Did I say this speculation was fact? No. Did I say I heard any experts say this? No. Did I say I heard this talk anywhere? NO! That's what makes it...tada, speculation! Cripes, man, aren't I allowed to even post an opinion, as I qualify it as merely opinion? Talk about blasting people just because you don't agree with their opinion!

 

[Skkorpion]

Tango, I'm with you on this. Our left side, with LJ and Kendall, is the superior side of our line. Every big run goes left, not right.

LJ Shelton is the only player on our team with the athletic ability to play LT and he does it well.

Big was adequate at RT, that's all. At RG, he was better but not always dominant. Annointing him a "natural" LT seems to me to be ignoring the eyeball evidence.

My guess is Big can be a pro-bowl level RG, or maybe even a RT, but he'll never be a LT - he hasn't got the quick feet for it. DTs often run around him even in congestion, so it's nuts to think he can play in open space and fend off speed rushers.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by Stout
For the love of God, Tango, calm down. I mean, you're sounding like a complete moron. Why are you jumping my case?
Hmmmm. Who said I wasn't calm???
....and I certainly am not the one calling someone else a moron!!!!
As far as "jumping your case"....You were the one that chimed in with your "speculation" in regard to my post in replying to Section 11's prior post. I wasn't disrespectful.....I just asked you where besides in your own speculation had any of those ideas ever been propounded...
Seems to me you are being a little over-sensitive or something here. If you want to post a personal speculation....have at it. But this IS a public forum in the sense that when you make the decision to make a "public" statement here....its also anyones right to disagree with it. If you can't handle that .....then maybe you should think carefully before you open yourself up to any criticism with comments you do post. If you can't stand the heat....then get out of the kitchen.


I said things like 'I'm just speculating' and 'not that it would necessarily cause him to' in my post.

That's what it is: SPECULATION!!! Based on the fact that if I were playing in the NFL and a team had me starting as a DT, I might consider moving to another team for less money if they wanted me to start at DE. Why? Quite simply because that is (or was) my position.

Did I say this speculation was fact? No. Did I say I heard any experts say this? No. Did I say I heard this talk anywhere? NO! That's what makes it...tada, speculation! Cripes, man, aren't I allowed to even post an opinion, as I qualify it as merely opinion? Talk about blasting people just because you don't agree with their opinion!
Whose the kettle calling the pot black here????

 

[Stout]

Okay Tango, if you weren't trying to be the Spanish Inquisition, then I do apologize for flying off the handle, but let's be realistic-you need to learn a bit of netiquette. When you use multiple symbols (i.e., !!! or ???) you are emphasizing your points. Therefore, when I read you questioning what I was basing my opinions on, I read that you were basically 'demanding' to know where I got this information because you used a ???.

To me, you were jumping my case for not substantiating my post, when in my very post I said I was only speculating on personal opinion.

So, by reading (appropriately, as, no offense, you just didn't know what posting multiple symbols meant) your response, I was insulted at what seemed to be holier-than-thou, you-can't-substantiate-that inquisition. Which, of course, I wasn't trying to substantiate.

So either: A-you did jump my case and my response was warranted, or...B-you didn't jump my case but used confusing language, in which case I didn't really reply improperly but in which case I still apologize because, in that case, the spirit of your reply was non-malignant.

So, what I'm trying to say, in very verbose language, is try to tone down your messages, because posting ??? makes it read demanding and arrogant when perhaps you weren't trying to do so.