This on Green From PFW

[JeffGollin]

For what it's worth -

Jan. 7, 2004

Report: Green offered head-coaching job in Arizona

Dennis Green, who coached the Vikings for nine seasons, has reportedly been offered the job as head coach of the Cardinals. Green was out of work each of the last two seasons and worked as a television analyst. Green had a 101-70 record with the Vikings. The Cardinals have not had back-to-back winning seasons since Jim Hanifan went 8-7-1 in 1983 and 9-7 in ’84.

PFW: Is it realistic to think Green can turn the Cardinals around?

Reynolds: It is realistic, and Green has a track record for righting the ship. He was not good at Northwestern but helped bring respectability back to Stanford football before joining the Vikings. Green is an efficient but demanding coach who will put his system in place quickly with veterans being pushed to lead the NFL’s youngest roster. In his first season with the Vikings, Green was a stark contrast to easygoing Jerry Burns and rubbed some veterans the wrong way. Plus, Burns was given the boot after an 8-8 season and replaced by a coach with a 26-63 college coaching record. But Green forced players to either adapt or acclimate to being backups. He’s well respected by his players as a proven winner, but to many on the Cardinals’ roster, he’s just another retread. When Green took over in Minnesota, Roger Craig was his No. 1 running back. Emmitt Smith is in Arizona, but Green doesn’t have a Rich Gannon — the starter in Minnesota in ’91 — to build the offense around.

The Cardinals don’t anticipate immediate gratification from Green’s hire; Green went 11-5 in his first season in Minnesota with a solidly built roster (Cris Carter, John Randle, Randall McDaniel, Gary Zimmerman, Jack Del Rio). Green was granted personnel say, but will be asked to work with vice president of football operations Rod Graves. Green, a disciple of Bill Walsh, can almost certainly be penciled in for a QB addition in the offseason. If he cannot get a big name in free agency (potential cap-casualty Jeff Garcia?), the Cardinals figure to use the third overall pick to take a quarterback.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Id love us to get Garcia in here drop blake and draft Taylor.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

This article has its share of flaws. Green wasn't that successful at Northwestern as far as W-L goes, yet he did win Big 10 Coach of the Year Honors there for providing some hope into that dismal program.

Second, if Jeff Garcia is our QB next year I have no idea how I'm going to cheer for him. The guy is a humongous douchebag.

 

[Brian]

Does this quote worry anyone besides me: "but to many on the Cardinals’ roster, he’s just another retread." Or should I just take that as some reporters speculation.

I personally don't want Dennis Green, don't like Dennis Green, but if I'm wrong and he can turn this around, I'll personally go out in my back yard and kill a crow and eat it raw.

I think hiring him would be a HUGE mistake, but at the same time I have never wanted to be more wrong.

 

[Jttsaz]

Originally posted by MaoTosiFanClub
This article has its share of flaws. Green wasn't that successful at Northwestern as far as W-L goes, yet he did win Big 10 Coach of the Year Honors there for providing some hope into that dismal program.

Second, if Jeff Garcia is our QB next year I have no idea how I'm going to cheer for him. The guy is a humongous douchebag.

Maybe Garcia and Bobby Milford can hang out together?

 

[pinnacle]

What does this comment mean?

"He’s well respected by his players as a proven winner, but to many on the Cardinals’ roster, he’s just another retread. "

isn't about every coach available "just another retread"?

I doubt initially the media or the players will be that happy...especially after the Mac love affair. A media guy from Minneapolis was just on KDUS..he said green was hostile towards the media - especially for the last 4 or 5 years.....Although a couple of media guys have come out and said they would hire Green - most of the local media says it is probably the wrong move...

I think Steve Swanson..and maybe Dan Bickley (not sure of his position) think green would be good..but most are negative.

In the end the media does not matter...I wonder what the players will think? probably not good for them - alot of them will be looking for work elsewhere over the next year or two.

 

[pinnacle]

Harley Rider...I was typing when you posted..I wondered about the comment also.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by MaoTosiFanClub
This article has its share of flaws. Green wasn't that successful at Northwestern as far as W-L goes, yet he did win Big 10 Coach of the Year Honors there for providing some hope into that dismal program.

Yes, and his record at Stanford was 16-18.

 

[JeffGollin]

Yes, and his record at Stanford was 16-18.
"Former Cardinal HC, Denny Green..."

 

[football24/7]

WHo cares!! Mac is a players coach yes, but quuite a few times this year, that team needed to be taken out to the wood shed. After years of nice guys, I want a qualified head football coach who will teach, prepare,expect performance, and win some dam football games. I want a team that develops the swagger of the Ravens Defense. Before you say they lost in the playoffs with that swagger, well at least they made the playoffs and won a ring. This new stadium needs to be an intimidating place to play for any team that comes in. I am sick of feeling like a visitor in my home stadium. The only thing that will cure this is winning, winning, and more winning. Green will place demands on his players, fine, at the salary these guys get, it goes with the job. If you dont perform, your gone. If you perform then reap the rewards!

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Yes, and his record at Stanford was 16-18.

Check out Walsh's record at Stanford, he inherited Denny's 8-4 team and went 10-3 in 92 and then went 4-7 and 3-7-1 the next 2 years. So his 3 year record was 17-17-1 immediately after Green.

Stanford is a VERY unique place for football coaches, it's very hard to recruit because of the academics involved, basketball is different there tends to be enough good students in the top players annually that Montgomery is able to field a top 20 team year after year, in footbal that's much harder for Stanford to do these days.

Incidentally the year after Walsh quit, Willingham took his team and went 7-4-1. If he wasn't trying to turn around Notre Dame I would have trotted out my hire Willingham campaign again.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
For what it's worth -

Jan. 7, 2004

The Cardinals don’t anticipate immediate gratification from Green’s hire; Green went 11-5 in his first season in Minnesota with a solidly built roster (Cris Carter, John Randle, Randall McDaniel, Gary Zimmerman, Jack Del Rio). Green was granted personnel say, but will be asked to work with vice president of football operations Rod Graves. Green, a disciple of Bill Walsh, can almost certainly be penciled in for a QB addition in the offseason. If he cannot get a big name in free agency (potential cap-casualty Jeff Garcia?), the Cardinals figure to use the third overall pick to take a quarterback.

This is the part that surprises me, was I dreaming or didn't Green say on air SEVERAL times this year that he really likes Jeff Blake and didn't think Blake was to blame for what happened to our offense? I would swear I heard him say that more than once, I know after we signed him during the draft Green spoke quite highly of him.

I'll have to see if I can find something, i wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't like Blake a lot more than some of you think though, not long term of course he won't pass on Eli or Ben for Jeff, but I wouldn't be surprised if he put Jeff in an offense that fit him better with more than one WR who can get open and catch the ball, and Blake just might flourish in such a system, as might McCown.

 

[conraddobler]

I don't like Green at all but in the large scheme of things it isn't a tragedy like retaining Mac would be.

I am sure he will be successful but I just don't like the man. Should he bring us to yearly playoffs and January football then I can take it.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by conraddobler
I don't like Green at all but in the large scheme of things it isn't a tragedy like retaining Mac would be.

I am sure he will be successful but I just don't like the man. Should he bring us to yearly playoffs and January football then I can take it.

Great way to totally sum up my thoughts on the guy. If he can be successful, I'll be happy. Something doesn't sit right about him with me, though.

Nothing would be worse than another year under windbag Mac.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by football24/7
WHo cares!! Mac is a players coach yes, but quuite a few times this year, that team needed to be taken out to the wood shed. After years of nice guys, I want a qualified head football coach who will teach, prepare,expect performance, and win some dam football games. I want a team that develops the swagger of the Ravens Defense. Before you say they lost in the playoffs with that swagger, well at least they made the playoffs and won a ring. This new stadium needs to be an intimidating place to play for any team that comes in. I am sick of feeling like a visitor in my home stadium. The only thing that will cure this is winning, winning, and more winning. Green will place demands on his players, fine, at the salary these guys get, it goes with the job. If you dont perform, your gone. If you perform then reap the rewards!

Other than trading Chris Doleman to the Saints his second year in Minnesota, when did Dennis Green ever display any player discipline?

I read a quote from Brian Billick a few days ago where he said that Denny Green hired him to construct and offense based on a combination of Bill Walsh's passing and Joe Gibb's power running game. Billick had been an assistant to Green at Stanford after Utah St. and San Diego St. He originally played TE and coached for Lavell Edwards at BYU. Origianally Green hired Jack Burns from the 'Skins to fulfill that roll, Billick was the TE coach until Green moved him up to OC replacing Burns. Why that move...I have no clue. Anyway that's what Billick said he tried to do in Minnesota. Terry Allen was primarily the featured running back until they drafted Robert Smith, which few people would argue was a good pick and he was eventually able to unseat Allen at RB.
In the meantime the Vikes had Anthony Carter and Stephone Paige (in latter part of their careers, Chris Carter, Jake Reed, Hassan Jones and Quandry Ishmail, Plus all Pro TE Steve Jordan and Mike Tice) Ismail was the 2nd round pick in '93 and the only one of the group that Green drafted.

Helping out too, was a pretty decent offensive line....

All of these players holdovers primarily from Bud Grant's days.

So, in that respect, Green walked into a pretty nice situation.
To me, it would have taken some pretty inept mismanagement to not win with that group AND Dungy taking care of the defensive side of the ball.

I give credit to Green for his progressive and innovative thinking in what he wanted Burns/Billick to do with the offense. Billick came to be known as an "offensive guru", which was further promulgated after Randy Moss was drafted in 1998.

Since then Billick has come under criticism, at times in Baltimore, for their "lack" of offense. Few would argue that their super bowl champion ship was more a result of their great defense, NOT their awesome, to say the least. offense. There are more than a few people who have stated that they thought more of the credit for that was due to DC Marvin Lewis than to Billick.

I would say the same question has some validity with Green. Not only did he walk into a team of talented players, but Dungy and Billick DID prove to be effective at thier jobs.
Again I give credit where credit is due to Green. Hiring Dungy was a great move. And I also give him "pluses" for his bold moves both in drafting and a willingness to be creative with the offense.
Also for his willingness to delegate the actual on field duties to his coaches. That has never been a problem for him....where the problem has always arisen, is Green tends to be almost obsessive in his need for recognition and claiming the credit for the successes, yet when any problems developed, deny any responsibility and find a scapegoat to deflect any criticism to.

That's why I have continued to "play devil's advocate" to so many here who seem eager to annoint him such a great coach, citing his won-lost record as their primary justification.

As was so well demonstrated here with Mac and his staff, and what top coaches like Parcells truely understand, is that a HC's success is hugely dependant upon who his staff is. Mac might still be here had he had better choices on who to keep and whom to let go on his staff. The HC ultimately has to take the heat when things don't work out well, just as they are entitled to take SOME of the credit for successes.

But Dennis Green's history has been that ...that is a one of his biggest problem areas...he seems to want ALL the good credit, yet deny responsibility for the problems. Hence you don't see the extended loyalty of many of his assistants, in the past.

If he does end up being the HC here, the next big question mark would be....exactly who WOULD he be able to hire to comprise his staff? That's another of the real red flags concerning him, that I have.

Aside from the lack of discipline aspect.

Won/Lost records, just like many "stats", in and of themselves, don't always give a true picture of the dynamics that are really ocurring in regard to that.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr

Since then Billick has come under criticism, at times in Baltimore, for their "lack" of offense. Few would argue that their super bowl champion ship was more a result of their great defense, NOT their awesome, to say the least. offense. There are more than a few people who have stated that they thought more of the credit for that was due to DC Marvin Lewis than to Billick.

I would say the same question has some validity with Green. Not only did he walk into a team of talented players, but Dungy and Billick DID prove to be effective at thier jobs.
Again I give credit where credit is due to Green. Hiring Dungy was a great move. And I also give him "pluses" for his bold moves both in drafting and a willingness to be creative with the offense.
Also for his willingness to delegate the actual on field duties to his coaches. That has never been a problem for him....where the problem has always arisen, is Green tends to be almost obsessive in his need for recognition and claiming the credit for the successes, yet when any problems developed, deny any responsibility and find a scapegoat to deflect any criticism to.

True, but again I have to point out that Fassel, the guy I think you want, is a former OC and if you look closely you'll see that HIS Giants won on defense not offense. So we should be interviewing his former DC not him.

Sometimes great assistants make the HC look good, sometimes but however you slice it Green found a way to make the playoffs over and over with massive personnel turnover and a new QB almost every year. People tend to say "he had Randy Moss" but he won before Moss too.

He certainly has personality issues, but if you're winning nobody cares. The same is true for Jeff Blake, if we'd won 9 games this year nobody would be calling him "leon" or complaining that he didn't take enough blame, people would probably be saying he was taking too much credit for the turnaround.

 

[kerouac9]

Tango:

For what it's worth, big guy, I read that Mike Mularkey or turned down the Bengals' HC post last offseason prior to Lewis taking it. I know the thread is closed, but whatever...

EDIT: Oh, yeah, it was mentioned in the Mort chat that I linked to in another thread.

 

[bratwurst]

Originally posted by HarleyRider
I personally don't want Dennis Green, don't like Dennis Green, but if I'm wrong and he can turn this around, I'll personally go out in my back yard and kill a crow and eat it raw.

I am with you on this 100%.

 

[Rats]

Green is the absolute best choice for this team because although our team is young we have seasoned youngsters. They have played in meaningful NFL games...mostly losses but they have now got experience. We will not get younger so a coach that gets the most out of talent is needed. Green took a young team with a seasoned backup QB and made the playoffs. When he got young talent he stuck with the Vets to help bring them along. Blake might find himself back in the saddle for next year if Denny is here. Denny in an interview while still with the Vikes and before a Rams game said his O was predicated on running the ball with Robert Smith and throwing to his vet wr Chris...and then at the opportune time getting it to Moss for his big plays. If we can run the ball effectivly and find a good deep threat we have the makings of an elite offense. So a top Wr might be the best target in the draft if Green is here. I feel he is the best of what is available.