This team is an ace away from being a contender

[sundevil04]

This team is not far from being a real contender, one offseason away really. That offseason needs to include taking our league low payroll and our new BILLION dollar TV deal and turning those two things into an ace, a real ace, an ace named David Price. We have one of the best offenses in the NL (and one of the youngest). Clearly the starting pitching has been the weakness other than in the past few weeks. Despite their struggles this season, this staff does have the makings of something good. When Corbin and Archie are back healthy along with Anderson we have a very solid 2, 3, 4, and likely Ray as the 5. If we can sign an ace, a TRUE ace in FA, along with a 2 - 4 of Corbin, Bradley and Anderson with R.Ray as the #5, we're looking solid.

starting pitchers
1.) David Price
2.) Patrick Corbin
3.) Archie Bradley
4.) Chase Anderson
5.) Robbie Ray (Shipley, Blair?)

Bullpen
Collmenter
Hudson
Chafin
Ziegler
Hernandez
Delgado
Burgos
Stites (?)
De La Rosa (?)

1b - Goldy
2b - C.Owings/B.Drury
3b - J.Lamb
ss - N.Amed
C - W.Castillo/O.Hernandez
CF - A.Pollack
RF - Y.Tomas
LF - D.Peralta/E.Inciarte/P.O'Brien

We'll have to decide what to do in the OF with the log jam of Ender, Peralta and possibly O'Brien, but it's a good problem to have. I'm excited to see what O'Brien can do in the bigs, if he's the power bat that he's said to be he'll take an already dangerous offense to a new level.

The only addition to the team is the ace, but this looks to me like a 95+ win team.

 

[BC867]

And I agree with you.

At this time, we are 4 games out of 1st place and the hottest team in the Division over the past 10 games, having gone 7-3.

We are still not ready for World Series consideration but, as I posted in the "trade' thread, I feel a lot better about the D-backs future now than I did one year ago.

After two consecutive .500 seasons, our 1-game-under-.500 now is a foundation for growth. It is no longer our expectation.

 

[overseascardfan]

This team is not far from being a real contender, one offseason away really. That offseason needs to include taking our league low payroll and our new BILLION dollar TV deal and turning those two things into an ace, a real ace, an ace named David Price. We have one of the best offenses in the NL (and one of the youngest). Clearly the starting pitching has been the weakness other than in the past few weeks. Despite their struggles this season, this staff does have the makings of something good. When Corbin and Archie are back healthy along with Anderson we have a very solid 2, 3, 4, and likely Ray as the 5. If we can sign an ace, a TRUE ace in FA, along with a 2 - 4 of Corbin, Bradley and Anderson with R.Ray as the #5, we're looking solid.

starting pitchers
1.) David Price
2.) Patrick Corbin
3.) Archie Bradley
4.) Chase Anderson
5.) Robbie Ray (Shipley, Blair?)

Bullpen
Collmenter
Hudson
Chafin
Ziegler
Hernandez
Delgado
Burgos
Stites (?)
De La Rosa (?)

1b - Goldy
2b - C.Owings/B.Drury
3b - J.Lamb
ss - N.Amed
C - W.Castillo/O.Hernandez
CF - A.Pollack
RF - Y.Tomas
LF - D.Peralta/E.Inciarte/P.O'Brien

We'll have to decide what to do in the OF with the log jam of Ender, Peralta and possibly O'Brien, but it's a good problem to have. I'm excited to see what O'Brien can do in the bigs, if he's the power bat that he's said to be he'll take an already dangerous offense to a new level.

The only addition to the team is the ace, but this looks to me like a 95+ win team.

I honestly don't see this current management team spending the $20M -$25M necessary for an ace like Price, particularly when they just included a potential ace in a deal to clear $10M off their books.

The sick twist is that ARZ could have home grown Ace pitchers if they would stop dealing them away for crap. If you're trading a blue chip prospect you better be getting one back in return or a stud ML player, not a handful of fringe prospects. The common piece from the old and new regime is Kendrick. He really needs to sell the team to an owner whose main concern is winning not saving money.

 

[bankybruce]

I honestly don't see this current management team spending the $20M -$25M necessary for an ace like Price, particularly when they just included a potential ace in a deal to clear $10M off their books.

The sick twist is that ARZ could have home grown Ace pitchers if they would stop dealing them away for crap. If you're trading a blue chip prospect you better be getting one back in return or a stud ML player, not a handful of fringe prospects. The common piece from the old and new regime is Kendrick. He really needs to sell the team to an owner whose main concern is winning not saving money.

I agree, but not because they don't want to spend, but because spending that much on an Ace is a crap shoot. For every Max Scherzer there are C.C. Sabathia, Rick Porcello and John Lester.

 

[bankybruce]

Left-hander Patrick Corbin had his best start yet in his minor league rehab assignment as he works his way back from last year's Tommy John surgery. Corbin threw 5 2/3 innings for Double-A Mobile on Saturday, allowing two runs on three hits. He walked three and struck out three.

With this news, I would rather trade for someone we can resign a bit cheaper, like a Cole Hammels who can be a solid #2 with hopes Corbin can be the #1. Honestly, I would rather trade some for a SS or C, but leaning towards a C. If our worst hitter hits .230, but plays stellar defense, I am ok if all the rest of the hitter are strong

Anyhow,

1.) Patrick Corbin
2.) Cole Hammels
3.) Chase Anderson
4.) Archie Bradley
5.) Robbie Ray/Yoan Lopez

Or, stick with our current guys.

1.) Patrick Corbin
2.) Chase Anderson
3.) Yoan Lopez
4.) Archie Bradley
5.) Robbie Ray

 

[bankybruce]

BTW, Bradley is throwing.

Diamondbacks pitcher Archie Bradley is starting to work his way back from shoulder tendinitis. Bradley threw an extended spring game on Thursday consisting of 54 pitches and 2 2/3 innings. Per MLB.com, Bradley spoke about his session:

"It was the first start of maybe one or two more rehab starts. I don't really know the plan. Just felt good to get back out there, face some hitters and get back into it.”

Bradley was outstanding in his first three starts this season before being hit with a line drive in his fourth outing which sent him to the DL. He wasn’t the same in four starts following his return, and then went back on the DL due to his shoulder issue on June 4.

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/d-backs-archie-bradley-throws-extended-spring-game-061915

 

[sundevil04]

I honestly don't see this current management team spending the $20M -$25M necessary for an ace like Price, particularly when they just included a potential ace in a deal to clear $10M off their books.

The sick twist is that ARZ could have home grown Ace pitchers if they would stop dealing them away for crap. If you're trading a blue chip prospect you better be getting one back in return or a stud ML player, not a handful of fringe prospects. The common piece from the old and new regime is Kendrick. He really needs to sell the team to an owner whose main concern is winning not saving money.

To call a 19 year old that isn't in the top 100 MLB prospects in the minors and is more likely to never reach the majors than he is to ever start a single game in the majors a "potential ace" is a stretch to say the least. I'm all for building through the draft, but Touki as at LEAST 4 years from ever throwing a pitch in a major league game and even if he does, to think that he has the stuff to be an ace is a gross exaggeration. Let's not forget that Touki's ERA in his career in the minors is 5.75. As much as I don't like trading young pitching, and I hated the Bauer, Parker and Skaggs deals, this one isn't so bad to me because of how far out he is and how high the likelihood is that he won't even reach the majors. If the 10Mil saved from this deal is 10Mil more we can throw at Price or Cueto and that 10 mil makes the difference in one of them signing here, then this is a great deal for the club.

We've shed nearly 40 million in salaries in the past few weeks, and the FO has routinely said that next years payroll will increase significantly. I think we're extremely likely to go hard after an ace. Think of it from La Russa's POV, he's been there and done that, he's had success everywhere he's gone. Now that he's come to the end of his managerial career and headed to the FO, do you think a guy like him is about to accept mediocrity while knowing that his ballclub has the lowest payroll in the MLB? There is a reason why from day 1 La Russa has been shedding salary and it's not to help the ownership line their pockets while he endures the losses that would come with not spending that dough.

 

[splitsecond]

I honestly don't see this current management team spending the $20M -$25M necessary for an ace like Price, particularly when they just included a potential ace in a deal to clear $10M off their books.

The sick twist is that ARZ could have home grown Ace pitchers if they would stop dealing them away for crap. If you're trading a blue chip prospect you better be getting one back in return or a stud ML player, not a handful of fringe prospects. The common piece from the old and new regime is Kendrick. He really needs to sell the team to an owner whose main concern is winning not saving money.

That is an odd way of looking at things. We have a 19 year old "potential" ace and a broken down rotation guy in Arroyo costing 10m, Touki wouldn't have been ready for 2-3 years minimum. Now we have $10m we can put towards an ace. Dump Aaron Hill's salary and we have enough to get one, without bloating payroll beyond belief.

Seems like simple math to me. I fully expect them to spend money on starting pitching this offseason to make a run the next 2-3 years. We have the offense, defense and bullpen sans a true closer.

 

[BC867]

I agree wholeheartedly with the previous two posts.

After mediocre .500 seasons, Tony La Russa is building, not only a team for the immediate future, but a young team that will grow.

At the expense of a recent draft pick who may be ready in four years. In order to move a good guitar player who is not going to get us there.

I am happy to see it.

 

[unseenaz]

I agree wholeheartedly with the previous two posts.

After mediocre .500 seasons, Tony La Russa is building, not only a team for the immediate future, but a young team that will grow.

At the expense of a recent draft pick who may be ready in four years. In order to move a good guitar player who is not going to get us there.

I am happy to see it.

phil gosselin doesn't make us a better team.

You want to trade touki? Fine, but get package him together and get me quality SP or a prospect. We got pennies on the dollar for a top proespect. Yes, he is just that, a prospect, but if you have the blanket of the unknown, sell high!!

 

[unseenaz]

This is the type of trade from the Braves perspective that I would applaud the DBacks making. Pay 7.5 mil for a ? But gain control of a high upside pitcher for the next 6+ years? Sign me up

 

[Chris_Sanders]

To call a 19 year old that isn't in the top 100 MLB prospects in the minors and is more likely to never reach the majors than he is to ever start a single game in the majors a "potential ace" is a stretch to say the least. I'm all for building through the draft, but Touki as at LEAST 4 years from ever throwing a pitch in a major league game and even if he does, to think that he has the stuff to be an ace is a gross exaggeration. Let's not forget that Touki's ERA in his career in the minors is 5.75. As much as I don't like trading young pitching, and I hated the Bauer, Parker and Skaggs deals, this one isn't so bad to me because of how far out he is and how high the likelihood is that he won't even reach the majors. If the 10Mil saved from this deal is 10Mil more we can throw at Price or Cueto and that 10 mil makes the difference in one of them signing here, then this is a great deal for the club.

We've shed nearly 40 million in salaries in the past few weeks, and the FO has routinely said that next years payroll will increase significantly. I think we're extremely likely to go hard after an ace. Think of it from La Russa's POV, he's been there and done that, he's had success everywhere he's gone. Now that he's come to the end of his managerial career and headed to the FO, do you think a guy like him is about to accept mediocrity while knowing that his ballclub has the lowest payroll in the MLB? There is a reason why from day 1 La Russa has been shedding salary and it's not to help the ownership line their pockets while he endures the losses that would come with not spending that dough.

I stopped reading after your first mistake. Touki was already in the top 100 in the MLB in the minors despite being in single A

From MLB.com

Touki Toussaint | Rank: 83
Team: Status: Reassigned to Minors ETA: 2018 Position: RHP Age: 19 DOB: 06/20/1996 Bats: R Throws: R Height: 6' 3" Weight: 185 lb.
Drafted: 2014, 1st (16) - ARI


VIDEO Other Lists: Top 30 Atlanta Braves Prospects (#4)
Scouting grades: Fastball: 65 | Curveball: 65 | Changeup: 55 | Control: 45 | Overall: 55
Having moved between the U.S. and Haiti early in his life, Toussaint didn't really start playing baseball seriously until he was 11, but he might have been the most athletic high school pitcher in the 2014 Draft class. He also might have as much upside potential as any in that crop, if not more, something the Atlanta Braves were interested in when they acquired him on his 19th birthday in June.

Toussaint's fastball will sit in the low 90s with a lot of movement, and he can reach back for more at times. His mid-70s curveball was one of the best breaking pitches in the Class of 2014, one that had so much break that high school catchers had difficulty holding onto it. He's shown feel for a changeup and a willingness to throw it, though it's not as effective as his first two options. Command has been an issue for Toussaint, both in high school and during his pro debut, but his athleticism -- he was one of the better hitters in the Florida high school ranks -- should allow him to learn to repeat his delivery more consistently.

It might take Toussaint a while to get there, but the payoff could be huge, and he was making strides during his first full season at the time of the trade. With patience, the Braves could have a potential frontline starting pitcher in their system.

That is right...he is already the #4 prospect in the Braves system despite being 3-4 years away. You don't just give that away

 

[Chris_Sanders]

You guys are seriously kidding yourself if you believe we are spending money. They had already cut 14 million off their payroll so far and said "Nope, not enough, lets cut 10 million more"

So you can pretty much expect BEST case they spend 10 million because they weren't happy being the 27th lowest payroll.

You know what 10 million gets you in baseball....Bronson Arroyo

 

[overseascardfan]

I stopped reading after your first mistake. Touki was already in the top 100 in the MLB in the minors despite being in single A

From MLB.com



That is right...he is already the #4 prospect in the Braves system despite being 3-4 years away. You don't just give that away

+ 1. That's why I didn't bother with a response to the three guys who knocked my post....it's pointless to keep pointing out how bad this trade is. I see TT as a Julio Teheran type of player ceiling (minus injuries), the same guy ATL told ARZ to pound sand when they asked for him in the Upton deal. ARZ is not going to pay for an ace...TLR just said it gives them flexibility to make moves but he didn't say when (if ever) they would make a move.

 

[Matt L]

Scott Kazmir will probably be available and would definitely be our best pitcher. I am not sure what it would take for Oakland to give him up because they have more leverage with him than most of their other players. Zobrist would also be a decent pick-up if we want to upgrade 2B.

Kazmir and Zobrist for Pete O'Brien, Allen Webster or Rubby De La Rosa, David Peralta, Jefferson Mejia

There's probably no way that Oakland makes that trade but I would definitely not include any one of Bradley, Shipley, Blair or Lopez just to try to get a wild card.

 

[Dback Jon]

Scott Kazmir will probably be available and would definitely be our best pitcher. I am not sure what it would take for Oakland to give him up because they have more leverage with him than most of their other players. Zobrist would also be a decent pick-up if we want to upgrade 2B.

Kazmir and Zobrist for Pete O'Brien, Allen Webster or Rubby De La Rosa, David Peralta, Jefferson Mejia

There's probably no way that Oakland makes that trade but I would definitely not include any one of Bradley, Shipley, Blair or Lopez just to try to get a wild card.

I wouldn't make that trade...

 

[Matt L]

I wouldn't make that trade...

Because the Dbacks are giving up too much? because you don't like Zobrist or Kazmir?

 

[Dback Jon]

Because the Dbacks are giving up too much? because you don't like Zobrist or Kazmir?

1) Kazmir is 31, and will be a free agent at the end of the year. He is making $13 million now. Yes, 2014 and so far in 2015 he has had a good seasons, but is that an aberration? How long can he keep it up? Why would we trade for an impending free agent?

2) Zobrist is 34, and will also be a free agent, and is really nothing spectacular.

 

[sundevil04]

1) Kazmir is 31, and will be a free agent at the end of the year. He is making $13 million now. Yes, 2014 and so far in 2015 he has had a good seasons, but is that an aberration? How long can he keep it up? Why would we trade for an impending free agent?

2) Zobrist is 34, and will also be a free agent, and is really nothing spectacular.

This.

Plus, haven't we learned our lesson on trading for A's pitchers yet? Look at what Kazmir did before he got to Oakland.

 

[unseenaz]

Scott Kazmir will probably be available and would definitely be our best pitcher. I am not sure what it would take for Oakland to give him up because they have more leverage with him than most of their other players. Zobrist would also be a decent pick-up if we want to upgrade 2B.

Kazmir and Zobrist for Pete O'Brien, Allen Webster or Rubby De La Rosa, David Peralta, Jefferson Mejia

There's probably no way that Oakland makes that trade but I would definitely not include any one of Bradley, Shipley, Blair or Lopez just to try to get a wild card.

Oakland would accept that trade in a heartbeat

Plus is kazmir is your ace, your rotation sucks

 

[sundevil04]

Scott Kazmir will probably be available and would definitely be our best pitcher. I am not sure what it would take for Oakland to give him up because they have more leverage with him than most of their other players. Zobrist would also be a decent pick-up if we want to upgrade 2B.

Kazmir and Zobrist for Pete O'Brien, Allen Webster or Rubby De La Rosa, David Peralta, Jefferson Mejia

There's probably no way that Oakland makes that trade but I would definitely not include any one of Bradley, Shipley, Blair or Lopez just to try to get a wild card.

I would be much more against trading O'Brien for a rent-a-player than I am against trading Touki for cash. At least with trading Touki for cash we're trading a player that's 3 - 4 years away from the Majors IF he even ever makes it there. There's also the saving grace in the Touki trade of the unknown of what's the cash for? Is it for a big splash signing of an ace? If it turns out that the cash goes to a rent-a-player to get us from 82 to 85 wins and we also have to trade O'Brien that is MLB ready at least with the bat, then I'll hate both trades because we essentially traded Touki and O'Brien for a couple more wins for a team that's a year away from being a real contender anyway.

 

[DWKB]

It's rather obvious we are going after Cole Hamels, isn't it?

What do we have to offer to take on that $100 contract?

 

[Matt L]

It's rather obvious we are going after Cole Hamels, isn't it?

What do we have to offer to take on that $100 contract?

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic...

 

[sundevil04]

Unfortunately, I do think Hamels is our target. I'd prefer not to make any trade for an ace at the deadline because of the cost in prospects. I'd much rather go all in after David Price or Johnny Cueto in free agency. It will cost more dollars, but leave our farm system intact.

Price will likely go for somewhere in the Scherzer range of 7 years 210K+ and Cueto not far from there. Both Price and Cueto are 29 years old with about 1,400 IP by the end of this season while Hamels' is 31 with around 2,000 IP at the end of this season and has 4 years and 100M left on his deal after this season. Hamels' hasn't shown any signs of declining, so I'd expect at least another 2 - 3 very good years out of him, but with Price and Cueto on 7 year deals, you're likely to get at least 5 very good years before they start to fall off.

I don't like the amount of prospects we'll likely have to deal to outbid the rest of MLB at the deadline to win the Hamels' trade, but a 1 - 4 rotation of these guys is deadly along with our offense. For the next 2 - 3 years this is a team that will contend with anyone.

Cole Hamels - 32 Y/O next season
Patrick Corbin - 26
Archie Bradley - 23
Chase Anderson - 28


A Hamel's trade would probably cost

Blair and/or Shipley
O'Brien
and at least one or two more players

With a 1 - 4 rotation as yound as those above and under contract for a couple years, the MLB ready Blair and Shipley would almost be position blocked and would be expendable. I'm just hoping it wouldn't cost Bradley.

 

[Dback Jon]

unfortunately I do think Hamels is our target. I'd prefer not to make any trade for an ace at the deadline because of the cost in prospects. I'd much rather go all in after David Price or Johnny Cueto in free agency. It will cost more dollars, but leave our farm system intact.

+1