Thoughts on First Rounders & Cardinals' Draft

[Mitch]

1. When you look at the 2010 NFL All-Pro Team...what jumps out at you is that save a handful of players, virtually all of the selections were first round picks:

WR: Roddy White (ATL); Reggie Wayne (IND)
OT: Jake Long (MIA); Joe Thomas (CLE)
OG: Logan Mankins (NE)
OC: Nick Mangold (NYJ)
DE: Julius Peppers (CHI); John Abraham (ATL)
DT: Haloti Ngata (BAL); Ndamukong Suh (DET)
OLB: Clay Matthews (GB)
ILB: Patrick Willis (SF); Jerod Mayo (NE)
CB: Nnamdi Asomugha (OAK): Derrelle Revis (NYJ)
S: Troy Polamalu (PIT); Ed Reed (BAL)

Those who were not:

QB: Tom Brady (NE-Rd. 6)
RB: Jamaal Charles (KC-Rd. 3); Arian Foster (HOU-UCFA)
FB: Vonta Leach (HOU-UCFA)
TE: Jason Whitten (DAL-Rd. 3)
KR: Devin Hester (CHI-Rd. 2)
OLB: James Harrison (PIT-UCFA)

Highlights:

* James Harrison is the only defensive player who was not a first rounder.

* RB and FB---they say it every year: you can get good ones well beyond the first two rounds.

* The Cardinals have not developed any of their 1st rounders in recent years into All-Pros---with the exception of WR Larry Fitzgerald---and---if you think about it---that was the one year the Cardinals did not draft for need. Coincidence?

2. Let's take a look at the 2010 All-Rookie Team and where each player was drafted:

QB: Sam Bradford STL (1)
RB: LeGarrette Blount TB (UCFA); Chris Ivory NO (UCFA)
TE: Rob Gronkowski NE (42)
WR: Mike Williams TB (101); Dez Bryant DAL (24)
OT: Jared Valdheer OAK (69); Rodger Saffold STL (33)
OG: Zane Beedles DEN (45); Mike Iupati SF (17)
OC: Maurkice Pouncey PIT (18)
KR: Marc Mariani TEN (222)
DE: Carlos Dunlap CIN (54); LaMarr Houston OAK (44)
DT: Tyson Alualu JAX (10); Ndamukong Suh DET (2)
OLB: Koa Misi MIA (40); Pat Angerer IND (63)
ILB: Rolando McClain OAK (8)
CB: Devin McCourty NE (27); Joe Haden CLE (7)
S: Earl Thomas SEA (14); Eric Berry KC (5)
P: Zoltan Mesko NE (150)
K: Cint Stitser CIN (UCFA)

Note: Again---RBs---both UCFAs, wow

Note: Oakland---much maligned over the years for their drafts---hit home runs with their first three picks: McClain, Houston and Valdheer

3. This year's Cardinals' Draft hinges quite a bit on just how high the coaches are on several of the young players on the roster. Let's look at the question marks at each position---and speculate as to what the coaches' thinking may be.

QB:

* John Skelton---are the coaches high enough on him to pass on a QB at #5? The team knows it is going to sign a veteran----who will likely start while the coaches give Skelton more grooming.

* If the Cardinals draft Cam Newton or Blaine Gabbert...does that push Skelton to #3? Or do the Cardinals forget about signing a veteran and go with the two young QBs?

* Do the coaches have their eye on a QB beyond round one? My favorites are Colin Kaepernik, Greg McElroy and Nathan Enderle.

* How high are the coaches on late signee Richard Bartel?

You Make the Calls (YMC)...here are mine:

A. I am high on Skelton and want him to compete for the starter's job this year. I would like to see what Skelton can do with regular first team reps from the get-go. Thus, I am not going to draft a QB at #5---this is a great draft to add the edge rusher we need.

B. I think the coaches are higher on Bartel than we think. I think he will be in the mix to start next year. Looks like he has a pretty snappy release...decent vision and accuracy...the one part of his game that concerned me was how often he threw off his back foot...even when pressure was not in his face. But, this is correctable.

C. I would hope to land Kaepernik or McElroy in this draft. I am fine with taking Kaepernik at #38---if he's still there---which I think he won't be. And I like the #102 pick for McElroy---if he's still there. If both are gone at those spots---there are so many defensive players I like in this draft that I keep drafting defense instead.

I would love to approach this draft as a way of getting our defense swift, tenacious and strong for years to come. Use free agency to address the offense---where a few key veterans at QB, TE, and OL could make the unit much more polished and cohesive.

Back to address the other positions in a few minutes.

In the meantime...what is your assessment of the QB position in relation to the Cardinals' draft?

 

[ARodg]

Good thread but not worth making twice

 

[Mitch]

RB:

The team is well stocked here with Tim Hightower, Beanie Wells and LaRod Stephens-Howling.

Not so sure if the team will try to re-sign Jason Wright---good STs and spot player---but---

What about Alfonso Smith? This kid has jets...and should be good on STs as well. I think he has a decent chance of making the team.

FB:

Reagan Maui'a is rugged and still raw...but making progress. Charles Ali was re-signed and Nehemiah Broughton spent the year on the IR.

The player I like in this draft is Charles Clay (6-3, 234, Tulsa)...who is a triple threat...and has the kind of versatility Whiz loves.

TE:

The team will re-sign Stephen Spach? You can bet on that. For some reason Whiz likes him...despite his consistently subpar play. Jim Dray should keep improving.

The shame here is on the coaches and Ben Patrick. Both are culpable for his shortcomings, as he continued to underachieve in the system and probably will look to sign elsewhere.

The reality about the system is that Whiz rarely passes to the TEs...as he prefers multiple WR sets. However, could that change if the Cardinals sign a free agent TE like Zach Miller? One would hope so.

The problem is...the TEs Whiz plays don't block with consistent authority (save Anthony Becht who was cut this year)...and that has to change.

If TE Kyle Rudolph of Notre Dame is still on the board at #38...I like the pick. I would rather draft defense there (or Kaepernik---if available), but Rudolph would command the attention of opposing defenses....something a Cardinal TE has not done in quite some time...ironically never since Whiz, a former NFL TE, has arrived.

OT:

I do not believe that Whiz sees T as a priority...he expects strong improvement from Levi Brown and Brandon Keith and has a solid backup in Jeremy Bridges.

I am in the slide Brown down to guard camp and acquire a more athletic LT.

OG:

I find it disappointing that there have been no reports regarding an effort to re-sign Deuce Lutui. With all the money the Bidwills saved last year---the deal should have been done at the end of training camp when they traded Reggie Wells because it was clear that Lutui is a rock at RG.

He was out best offensive lineman this year---hands down---not even close. Watch---he will go and sign with Pete Carroll in Seattle. How is that going to feel?

While we are on the topic---you just had to know that the potential lockout was going to render the hapless Bidwills especially inactive. Sure, other owners are doing the same...but some are not...and some actually spent money on their teams this past year.

The whole nature of the Larry Fitzgerald talks? Totally moot at this point.

Talks with Lutui and Breaston and Sendlein and Branch wouldn't be moot at all. In fact, these players probably would like to get deals done before the potential lockout---so they can rest assured of where they will be and what they will make.

If the Cardinals do lose Lutui...look for them to make a hard push to coax Alan Faneca back for one more year to play LG, while Rex Hadnot takes over at RG.

One way or another it looks like Hadnot will be one of the starting guards and he should be solid.

The versatile Jeremy Bridges can help out here as well...as may Tom Pestock, one of Russ Grimm's project players who has steadily improved.

Just the same...the Cardinals will likely take a guard on the third day of the draft...my guess is Clint Boling of Georgia in the 4th round.

OC:

Lyle Sendlein will be re-signed...and the coaches like Ben Claxton as his backup...with Rex Hadnot available as well.

WR:

Fitzgerald wants to chase Championship rings...he's waiting to see if the Cardinals are serious in joining him. Looks like a Mexican standoff waiting to happen. The contract talks are simply a guage at this point---a feeling out of what money is involved and whether the organization should coax him to accept a trade.

One gets the sense that the Cardinals have already decided not to re-sign Steve Breaston...that is if he wants any decent guaranteed money---which one would imagine he would. He will get some good play on the free agent market, possibly landing with the Rams or the Chiefs.

Early Doucet enters a make or break contract year. It would be great if he was suddenly a consitent and productive contributor. Likely to happen? Probably not.

That leaves the trio of Andre Roberts, Stephen Williams and Max Komar. Roberts is going to keep getting better and better...but is he ready to be a #2? Williams has a chance to be very very good once he gets his confidence up. And Komar is a gritty player who will be much improved next year.

And keep an eye on PS WR Isaiah Williams---he could make a splash this year. Nice big target...slippery route runner.

If the team is intent on letting Breaston go...drafting a WR becomes more of a possibility and a probability. My favorite second day pick is Darvin Adams (6-3, 192) of Auburn.

 

[Mitch]

It is on the defensive side where things get very interesting. Now that there is a Ray of Hope in charge...he wants "big guys who can run and little guys who can hit." Let's see who fits into those categories and what the draft needs are.

NT:

Dan Williams is a big guy who can run---but needs to develop much improved stamina.

Gabe Watson could run better before his kneecap injury...but has not quite been the same since, yet, if he got his weight down, might be able to. Not sure if the team wants to re-sign him. Probably not.

I think that if Phil Taylor of Baylor is there at #38...he would be a great pick. The ideal pick is Muhammed Wilkerson of Temple, but he's been rising up the charts and may go where Dan Williams did, late in the first round.

DE:

Darnell Dockett and Calais Campbell are big guys who can run with the best of them. This year they could be the dynamic duo we were hoping they would be last year.

Depth is now an issue with Alan Branch heading to free agency and Kenny Iwebema coming off the IR.

A pick need to be made here and the guy I like later on is Misissippi St.'s Pernell McPhee (6-4, 285). But, it would not surprise me in the least to see the Cardinals select Iowa' Christian Ballard (6-5, 297) or Clemson's Jarvis Jenkins (6-4, 310) with the #38 pick. Jarvis could double as a NT.

ILB:

Daryl Washington and Paris Lenon could thrive in Horton's system...only I see Horton flip-flopping them to have Lenon play in James Farrior's role and Washington in Lawrence Timmons'.

At this point it seems unlikely Gerald Hayes will be a factor unless he takes a pay cut and gets in phenomenal shape.

Not sure if thumper Reggie Walker is fast or rangy enough to start, but he has a chance if he gets in tip-top shape. Curtis Greenwood was added to the roster from the PS late in the year and has a chance.

The player I like the best here is North Carolina St.'s Nate Irving, who is instinctive and aggressive in both stuffing the run and defending the middle and seams on pass plays. He would make a lot of sense at #69.

OLB:

Horton has said he want leadership from Clark Haggans and Joey Porter...which he is likely to get...but both of them need vastly reduced roles.

The main question is...which side will Horton want O'Brien Schofield to play? The answer to this question may have a bearing on which edge rusher the Cardinals would like to take at #5.

If Schofield projects to the SOLB spot (provided he puts on the necessary weight and strength)...that opens the door for Texas A&M's Von Miller---who must pay WOLB.

If Schofield projects as strictly a WOLB...this would likely make the coaches turn in favor of a thicker player like North Carolina's Richard Quinn---who can play either side. So can Georgia's Justin Houston...and one player who is strictly a SOLB is Pittsburgh's Jabaal Sheard, who could be had at #38 or even possibly at #69.

Will Davis adds SOLB ability...and the sleeper here may be recent pickup Brandon Sharpe (6-3, 254) who played the strong side at Texas Tech.

CB:

Hmmm...little guys who can hit...Michael Adams epitomizes that notion and don't be surprised if Money Mike becomes one of Horton's instant favorites...and someone Horton finds a nice role for.

Coach will also love the tandem of Greg Toler and A.J. Jefferson at backside CB. They have size and speed...and are tough tacklers.

The question mark for Horton's criteria obviously is Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie who is fast enough to cover a rolling tumbleweed in high winds, but runs more away from contact than toward it.

DRC will become Horton's and Deshea Townsend's pet project...and we will see what happens. Expect a change in attitude...or a trade.

There's a chance that Horton could woo UFA Ike Taylor...but Pittsburgh knows the connection and is trying to secure Taylor for next year and beyond, so we'll have to see on that one.

It would appear that the two 5-9 CBs Trumaine McBride and Marshay Green will have to bring their hard hats and turn heads. Green is feisty...has a chance.

There's a chance that the Cardinals will take LSU's Patrick Peterson at #5...for many reasons. He could help to make the secondary elite...but he also would make the return game electrifying...and you know Whiz, Whiz will have a role for him all set on offense...only with Peterson it wouldn't be just as a decoy as it is with DRC.

Prince Amukamara of Nebraska would be a good fit as well if the Cardinals have him on the top of their board.

SS:

Adrian Wilson is now going to get the best coaching of his career and I expect a totally different player next year. Horton will know how to use him and, when he puts Wilson in the box, Wilson will terrorize more than ever---and, when Horton puts Wilson in space it will be with clear directions and keys so he doesn't get caught in no man's land.

Hamza Abdullah is likely to impress Horton with his toughness. The question is can he do a better job in coverage?

I could see the Cardinals using one of their two sixth rounders on a SS type. My favorite is another Wilson, Lawrence Wilson of Connecticut...a 120-140 tackle type college OLB who---at 6-1, 220---becomes a SS in the NFL. This is one of the best tacklers in the draft. I also like the toughness and total package of Idaho's Shiloh Keo...who reminds me a little of Pat Tillman (R.I.P. #40).

FS:

The tandem of Kerry Rhodes and up-and-coming Rashad Johnson will allow Horton to be very flexible with his calls.

I could envision a third FS added to the mix...like TCU's Tejay Johnson (6-1, 212). Versatile safeties are of high value these days.

 

[Brewster10]

I think Quinn or Miller have to be the pick at #5.

I wouldn't have an issue with Peterson either, but we'd be seriously hurting for pass rushers next yr if that's the case. Although if they get DRC straightened out and team him with Peterson on the other side, it could open the door for bringing pressure with the DBs kinda like the Jets do

 

[Krangodnzr]

ILB:

Daryl Washington and Paris Lenon could thrive in Horton's system...only I see Horton flip-flopping them to have Lenon play in James Farrior's role and Washington in Lawrence Timmons'.

At this point it seems unlikely Gerald Hayes will be a factor unless he takes a pay cut and gets in phenomenal shape.

Not sure if thumper Reggie Walker is fast or rangy enough to start, but he has a chance if he gets in tip-top shape. Curtis Greenwood was added to the roster from the PS late in the year and has a chance.

The player I like the best here is North Carolina St.'s Nate Irving, who is instinctive and aggressive in both stuffing the run and defending the middle and seams on pass plays. He would make a lot of sense at #69.

We're on the same page regarding Irving. Top notch instincts for the interior LB positions, plays with a reckless abandon and toughness, and consistently makes plays in the backfield.

If he were 10 lbs heavier, IMO he'd be talked about in the late first round.

I love this tackle here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8t_CCmASDU&NR=1

 

[RugbyMuffin]

In the meantime...what is your assessment of the QB position in relation to the Cardinals' draft?

A project QB is a project QB.

Skelton has a lot to learn, but when you look for any QB who did ANYTHING positive in 2010, he is it. I think Skelton makes the Cardinals pass on any high round QB. Andrew Luck was the type of QB that could start right off the bat in the NFL. The rest are all projects.

Why on earth people want Gabbert is beyond me. A big QB who has to make the transition from a spread offense to the NFL offense who would be a project.....uh, we already have one of those in Skelton.

The rest, Newton, Kaepernik, Locker, are all projects, and IMO, high risk.

If and when the Cardinals draft a QB, it is for a long time 3rd QB position. There is no doubt the Cardinals are bringing in a veteran, and unless Skelton makes about 2 years progress in a shortened offseason, I believe the vet will start.

Not, only do I think IF the Cards draft a QB it will be a 3rd stringer to compete with Skelton, and am bordering on the fact I think the Cardinals might even go to Free agency for the 3rd stringer as well.

When I look at the QB draft class I see a lot of projects, and high risk players. Maybe a McElroy in the 4th, or some other guy who drops. We will see, but once Andrew Luck stayed in college, and in comparison to the promise Skelton has shown as a rookie, it is tough to spend a high round draft pick, especially with free agency in question, on a QB when needs on defense, and the offensive line are so glaring.

 

[Gandhi]

C. I would hope to land Kaepernik or McElroy in this draft. I am fine with taking Kaepernik at #38---if he's still there---which I think he won't be.

I too am pretty sure that Kaepernick won’t slide to the second round. If you look at him, he is almost identical to Josh Freeman in terms of how he is built, how athletic he is and how he throws. Also, he career looks almost exactly the same as Jay Cutler’s in that he plays for a minor school and got them a big win versus a ranked team.

Both Freeman and Cutler obviously got drafted in the first round, but even if Kaepernick were to fall to the second round, can’t you just see Chan Gailey drool of excitement when he finds out that he can get his vision of a perfect QB at #34?

I have to admit that I'm not that high on McElroy.


By the way, what do you think of TE Julius Thomas out of Portland State? He could easily be this year’s Jimmy Graham, as Thomas also has just played football for one year, being a star basketball player before that. I actually think Thomas is a better blocker than given credit for, and much better than Graham, but at least he could be a pretty good target for any QB. I’m not saying he is Rudolph or Stocker, but I am saying he could be a decent pickup in the 4th or 5th round.

 

[juza76]

We're on the same page regarding Irving. Top notch instincts for the interior LB positions, plays with a reckless abandon and toughness, and consistently makes plays in the backfield.

If he were 10 lbs heavier, IMO he'd be talked about in the late first round.

I love this tackle here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8t_CCmASDU&NR=1

irving was 6'1 242 lb at senior bowl..

 

[Mitch]

I too am pretty sure that Kaepernick won’t slide to the second round. If you look at him, he is almost identical to Josh Freeman in terms of how he is built, how athletic he is and how he throws. Also, he career looks almost exactly the same as Jay Cutler’s in that he plays for a minor school and got them a big win versus a ranked team.

Both Freeman and Cutler obviously got drafted in the first round, but even if Kaepernick were to fall to the second round, can’t you just see Chan Gailey drool of excitement when he finds out that he can get his vision of a perfect QB at #34?

I have to admit that I'm not that high on McElroy.


By the way, what do you think of TE Julius Thomas out of Portland State? He could easily be this year’s Jimmy Graham, as Thomas also has just played football for one year, being a star basketball player before that. I actually think Thomas is a better blocker than given credit for, and much better than Graham, but at least he could be a pretty good target for any QB. I’m not saying he is Rudolph or Stocker, but I am saying he could be a decent pickup in the 4th or 5th round.

Thomas had a very nice week in Palo Alto (East West). Looked very natural in everything he did. Good size and hands. Probably moved into the 5th round, possibly the 4th.

Gandhi, have you seen much of Texas TE Greg Smith (6-4, 250)? I like him a lot. Good receiver up the seams and in the flats. Not sure he's much of a RAC guy, however. But he looks like a Belichick type of TE to me.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Got some time on my hands today, so this is more for pure conversation than criticism.

RB:

The team is well stocked here with Tim Hightower, Beanie Wells and LaRod Stephens-Howling.

Not so sure if the team will try to re-sign Jason Wright---good STs and spot player---but---

What about Alfonso Smith? This kid has jets...and should be good on STs as well. I think he has a decent chance of making the team.

I could see the Cardinals picking up Mewelde Moore. Special teams guy, kick returner, and can run the rock. Plus he is a Pittsburgh re-tread. Just the way Whiz likes'em.

FB:

Reagan Maui'a is rugged and still raw...but making progress. Charles Ali was re-signed and Nehemiah Broughton spent the year on the IR.

The player I like in this draft is Charles Clay (6-3, 234, Tulsa)...who is a triple threat...and has the kind of versatility Whiz loves.

Last, year there was a lack of opportunity to bring in a good FB, either through free agency or the draft. This years free agency is WAY too stacked for the Cardinals not to cash in.

First, off if Nehemiah Broughton comes back from his injury, the guy can play, and play very well.

But look at the fullbacks available in free agency:
Vonta Leach, HOU
Le’Ron McClain, BAL
John Kuhn, GB
Jason Snelling, Atl
Ahmard Hall, Ten <-- WAY underrated, this guy is a really good player.
Naufahu Tahi, Min

TE:

The team will re-sign Stephen Spach? You can bet on that. For some reason Whiz likes him...despite his consistently subpar play. Jim Dray should keep improving.

The shame here is on the coaches and Ben Patrick. Both are culpable for his shortcomings, as he continued to underachieve in the system and probably will look to sign elsewhere.

The reality about the system is that Whiz rarely passes to the TEs...as he prefers multiple WR sets. However, could that change if the Cardinals sign a free agent TE like Zach Miller? One would hope so.

The problem is...the TEs Whiz plays don't block with consistent authority (save Anthony Becht who was cut this year)...and that has to change.

If TE Kyle Rudolph of Notre Dame is still on the board at #38...I like the pick. I would rather draft defense there (or Kaepernik---if available), but Rudolph would command the attention of opposing defenses....something a Cardinal TE has not done in quite some time...ironically never since Whiz, a former NFL TE, has arrived.

I would love to have Kyle Rudolph, yet in the 2nd roud, as you state, maybe to high a price, and too big a luxiary when defense, and offensive line needs are so dire.

I believe the Cardinals are going to be, again, out of luck to find a receiving TE. Zach Miller would be nice, but the Raiders will keep him, and the Cardinals just don't seem like the type that would go after him, unfortunately.

Hopefully, The Cardinals will give up this folly of Steven Spach. Patrick is gone regardless of misuse or whatever.

First, if Skelton's brother doesn't get drafted he will be at camp. Big guy, who supposedly can catch.

Second, one of my favorite TE's Jeff King, Car will be available and he would start day 1, and the little known Kris Wilson, SD would be a good pick up as well.

OT:, OG:, C:
..........

Levi Brown is not the answer. He just isn't Brandon Keith has at least shown some promise, and is "young". I struggle with Duece Lutui, who is deemed a run block for a line that cannot open any holes. I hope and pray Faneca is done because he is just prolonging the worry about the offensive line, I mean when a old, washed up OLineman can come in and start day one, and move your "best" offensive lineman out of the position he has played since he was drafted says a lot about how poor the offensive line is.

Lyle Sendlein is a like a bad penny on this team. We just cannot get rid of him. Whiz never EVER brings in any competition against the guy either. I could care less about his back story. WE NEED a dominant center.

The only thing I like about he Cardinals offensive line is the depth. Jeremy Bridges is a great depth guy, and there is some good confidence with Rex Hadnot. Concerning Ben Claxton ? LOL, he is just a easy choice for inactive on game day. Seriously, why have a 53 man roster, when only 45 can suit up. Ben Claxton is farther from seeing the field than some practice squad guys.

In my opinion our line is a mess. I hate our OC who has been a weak link for far too long, and what is worse there are no quality centers available, unless we draft one.

If I where the Cardinals, I would be looking to sign a guard in free agency, or even a tackle.

But, in the second round there is a chance that Pouncey, Moffit, or Barksdale will be there, and any one of those three would be a great asset for this line.

Beyond that we need someone to play the LG position, cause I cannot see Faneca coming back. There is no one on the current roster that can play this position, so off to free agency we go.

A whole thread could go into the offensive line woes of the Cardinals. And, I am not going to entertain arguements of "continuity". What for ? So, the line can continue to suck ?

WR:[/B]

Fitzgerald wants to chase Championship rings...he's waiting to see if the Cardinals are serious in joining him. Looks like a Mexican standoff waiting to happen. The contract talks are simply a guage at this point---a feeling out of what money is involved and whether the organization should coax him to accept a trade.

One gets the sense that the Cardinals have already decided not to re-sign Steve Breaston...that is if he wants any decent guaranteed money---which one would imagine he would. He will get some good play on the free agent market, possibly landing with the Rams or the Chiefs.

Early Doucet enters a make or break contract year. It would be great if he was suddenly a consitent and productive contributor. Likely to happen? Probably not.

That leaves the trio of Andre Roberts, Stephen Williams and Max Komar. Roberts is going to keep getting better and better...but is he ready to be a #2? Williams has a chance to be very very good once he gets his confidence up. And Komar is a gritty player who will be much improved next year.

And keep an eye on PS WR Isaiah Williams---he could make a splash this year. Nice big target...slippery route runner.

If the team is intent on letting Breaston go...drafting a WR becomes more of a possibility and a probability. My favorite second day pick is Darvin Adams (6-3, 192) of Auburn.

Too many holes Cardinals. Too many holes.

Fitzgerald
Breaston
Roberts
Williams
[Player to be named later]

Make it happen, and worry about the offensive line, and defense.

LOL, I didn't even mention Doucet. Roberts makes Doucet expendable.

 

[Cardiac]

A project QB is a project QB.

Skelton has a lot to learn, but when you look for any QB who did ANYTHING positive in 2010, he is it. I think Skelton makes the Cardinals pass on any high round QB. Andrew Luck was the type of QB that could start right off the bat in the NFL. The rest are all projects.

Why on earth people want Gabbert is beyond me. A big QB who has to make the transition from a spread offense to the NFL offense who would be a project.....uh, we already have one of those in Skelton.

Didn't Bradford play in a spread offense? In fact don't many college QB's now play in a spread O?

The rest, Newton, Kaepernik, Locker, are all projects, and IMO, high risk.

All the above are risks to varying degrees. As is any college player at any position trying to transition to the NFL. Yes it will take longer for a College QB to adjust to the pro game.

If and when the Cardinals draft a QB, it is for a long time 3rd QB position. There is no doubt the Cardinals are bringing in a veteran, and unless Skelton makes about 2 years progress in a shortened offseason, I believe the vet will start.

Not, only do I think IF the Cards draft a QB it will be a 3rd stringer to compete with Skelton, and am bordering on the fact I think the Cardinals might even go to Free agency for the 3rd stringer as well.

Why waist a draft pick on a QB who you know will only be a career back up or 3rd stringer? They don't play ST's so their value to the team is basically zero.

When I look at the QB draft class I see a lot of projects, and high risk players. Maybe a McElroy in the 4th, or some other guy who drops. We will see, but once Andrew Luck stayed in college, and in comparison to the promise Skelton has shown as a rookie, it is tough to spend a high round draft pick, especially with free agency in question, on a QB when needs on defense, and the offensive line are so glaring.

I guess there are basically two camps. Go for the D or O-line and avoid the risk factor of picking a QB in the top of the draft or doesn't matter how good every other player on the team is without a legit QB we are just spinning our wheels.

We took our flyer are getting a QB after rd1 (Skelton) who may become a legit QB. Picking another one is simply silly IMWO.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

This is fun ! Thanks for the posts Mitch.

NT:

Dan Williams is a big guy who can run---but needs to develop much improved stamina.

Gabe Watson could run better before his kneecap injury...but has not quite been the same since, yet, if he got his weight down, might be able to. Not sure if the team wants to re-sign him. Probably not.

I think that if Phil Taylor of Baylor is there at #38...he would be a great pick. The ideal pick is Muhammed Wilkerson of Temple, but he's been rising up the charts and may go where Dan Williams did, late in the first round.

Watson is gone. Robinson is going to retire.

Williams is going to be a good one. Don't worry about that. The lack of depth at NT is worry some.

Thus Alan Branch has to be some what of a priority (I stress some what), he just has to be. good depth guy at DE, and 3rd string NT in a pinch. There is no way I can see the Cardinals drafting a NT.

Free agency, there is not much there for a NT:
Shaun Smith, KC (aka the "Ball Grabber")
Chris Hoke, Pit (flippin 34 years old tho)
Jamal Williams, Den - with Denver going back to the 4-3 he might be available, again 34 yrs old
Maybe kick the tires of John McCargo, Buf

DE:

Darnell Dockett and Calais Campbell are big guys who can run with the best of them. This year they could be the dynamic duo we were hoping they would be last year.

Depth is now an issue with Alan Branch heading to free agency and Kenny Iwebema coming off the IR.

A pick need to be made here and the guy I like later on is Misissippi St.'s Pernell McPhee (6-4, 285). But, it would not surprise me in the least to see the Cardinals select Iowa' Christian Ballard (6-5, 297) or Clemson's Jarvis Jenkins (6-4, 310) with the #38 pick. Jarvis could double as a NT.

Alan Branch. You should have listened to me buddy. If you just accepted being a NT, you would be set up for a HUGE payday. Instead Alan Branch is one of the servicable 3-4 DE's available in free agency. I think the Cardinals give Branch a fair shake at a good contract. If he thinks he will do better, there are a good number of 3-4 depth DE's out there.

Kenny Iwebema will be re-signed. Without a doubt.

Dockett, and Campbell will start next year.

ILB:

Daryl Washington and Paris Lenon could thrive in Horton's system...only I see Horton flip-flopping them to have Lenon play in James Farrior's role and Washington in Lawrence Timmons'.

At this point it seems unlikely Gerald Hayes will be a factor unless he takes a pay cut and gets in phenomenal shape.

Not sure if thumper Reggie Walker is fast or rangy enough to start, but he has a chance if he gets in tip-top shape. Curtis Greenwood was added to the roster from the PS late in the year and has a chance.

The player I like the best here is North Carolina St.'s Nate Irving, who is instinctive and aggressive in both stuffing the run and defending the middle and seams on pass plays. He would make a lot of sense at #69.

I think Daryl Washington's growing pains this season will benefit him by the 2nd half of this season. He will not be starting at the beginning of this year. Horton is going to give Washington a bit of a wake up call. Washington needs to "calm down", trust his reads, and THEN use that freakish atheletic skill.

Lennon stays cause he is solid. Hayes is gone.

Walker and Greenwood will be around to fight for the 53. Walker has one foot out the door, tho. When Hayes went down, and then the team converted to a 4-3 instead of playing Walker....well, nuff said.

Some stupid poster said Walker had more potential than AJ Hawk... what a tool!

Anyway, I love the ILB'ers available in free agency. Starting with Stewart Bradley from Phi.

I also expect the Cardinals to cash in on a ILB on the draft. I think there will be good value at the position in the 3rd and 4th rounds...maybe even the 5th.

OLB:

Horton has said he want leadership from Clark Haggans and Joey Porter...which he is likely to get...but both of them need vastly reduced roles.

The main question is...which side will Horton want O'Brien Schofield to play? The answer to this question may have a bearing on which edge rusher the Cardinals would like to take at #5.

If Schofield projects to the SOLB spot (provided he puts on the necessary weight and strength)...that opens the door for Texas A&M's Von Miller---who must pay WOLB.

If Schofield projects as strictly a WOLB...this would likely make the coaches turn in favor of a thicker player like North Carolina's Richard Quinn---who can play either side. So can Georgia's Justin Houston...and one player who is strictly a SOLB is Pittsburgh's Jabaal Sheard, who could be had at #38 or even possibly at #69.

Will Davis adds SOLB ability...and the sleeper here may be recent pickup Brandon Sharpe (6-3, 254) who played the strong side at Texas Tech.

Ugh. If we keep Porter, then we are doomed. Keep Haggans or Porter but not both. PLEASE!

Will Davis, and O'Brien Schofield, with a draft pick would be nice.

I have a feeling that a vet will be brought in for this job, and at a high price.

I could see Kamerion Wimbley in our future, which is a risk, IMO. But if he pans out, who knows.

CB:

Hmmm...little guys who can hit...Michael Adams epitomizes that notion and don't be surprised if Money Mike becomes one of Horton's instant favorites...and someone Horton finds a nice role for.

Coach will also love the tandem of Greg Toler and A.J. Jefferson at backside CB. They have size and speed...and are tough tacklers.

The question mark for Horton's criteria obviously is Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie who is fast enough to cover a rolling tumbleweed in high winds, but runs more away from contact than toward it.

DRC will become Horton's and Deshea Townsend's pet project...and we will see what happens. Expect a change in attitude...or a trade.

There's a chance that Horton could woo UFA Ike Taylor...but Pittsburgh knows the connection and is trying to secure Taylor for next year and beyond, so we'll have to see on that one.

It would appear that the two 5-9 CBs Trumaine McBride and Marshay Green will have to bring their hard hats and turn heads. Green is feisty...has a chance.

There's a chance that the Cardinals will take LSU's Patrick Peterson at #5...for many reasons. He could help to make the secondary elite...but he also would make the return game electrifying...and you know Whiz, Whiz will have a role for him all set on offense...only with Peterson it wouldn't be just as a decoy as it is with DRC.

Prince Amukamara of Nebraska would be a good fit as well if the Cardinals have him on the top of their board.

Little guys that can hit:
Michael Adams
Greg Toler
Marshay Green <-- just go back to preseason.

Little guys that have to prove they can hit:
AJ Jefferson

Little guys that cannot hit:
DRC

Someone get a water dish, cause DRC is already in the doghouse with Horton. If the criteria is "guys who can hit" DRC doesn't fit.

Patrick Peterson does, but I think he is going to be picked by the Broncos or the Bills. Which sucks.

Actually I could see the Broncos picking Peterson, and the Bills picking Von Miller, and the Cardinals then reaching for some future bust. But I digress...

If Peterson is there at #5 I could see the Cardinals picking him, and :gasp: trading DRC next season.

I will say this, the Cardinals young depth at the position appears to be very good. The speed alone is impressive.

That being said, I would love to see Chris Carr come into AZ. Special teams, and a servicable CB.

S:

Adrian Wilson is now going to get the best coaching of his career and I expect a totally different player next year. Horton will know how to use him and, when he puts Wilson in the box, Wilson will terrorize more than ever---and, when Horton puts Wilson in space it will be with clear directions and keys so he doesn't get caught in no man's land.

Hamza Abdullah is likely to impress Horton with his toughness. The question is can he do a better job in coverage?

I could see the Cardinals using one of their two sixth rounders on a SS type. My favorite is another Wilson, Lawrence Wilson of Connecticut...a 120-140 tackle type college OLB who---at 6-1, 220---becomes a SS in the NFL. This is one of the best tacklers in the draft. I also like the toughness and total package of Idaho's Shiloh Keo...who reminds me a little of Pat Tillman (R.I.P. #40).

The tandem of Kerry Rhodes and up-and-coming Rashad Johnson will allow Horton to be very flexible with his calls.

I could envision a third FS added to the mix...like TCU's Tejay Johnson (6-1, 212). Versatile safeties are of high value these days.

LOL, wow, I thought I was the only one. Shiloh Keo, I think this is the guy you draft to be heir apparent to Adrian Wilson.

Agreed. Wilson will thrive next year. I think he will be used correctly, and just be the guy we all expect him to be.

Kerry Rhodes is going to be exactly what Horton never had in Pittsburgh with Ryan Clark. Who could hit like a truck, but his coverage skill where lacking.

Rashad Johnson. Well, Horton is going to make a very ciritcal judgement of his guy, and hopefully Johnson becomes that player who was talked up so much when drafted.

Cause there is some value at the bottom end of the draft for safeties this year.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I guess there are basically two camps. Go for the D or O-line and avoid the risk factor of picking a QB in the top of the draft or doesn't matter how good every other player on the team is without a legit QB we are just spinning our wheels.

We took our flyer are getting a QB after rd1 (Skelton) who may become a legit QB. Picking another one is simply silly IMWO.

Agreed.

I guess after reading your comments, I think the Cardinals will come out of the draft, without drafting a QB.

Who should be brought in to be our 3rd string QB ?

Tyler Thigpen !!!!!

Thank you and goodnight.

 

[Krangodnzr]

irving was 6'1 242 lb at senior bowl..

I know, I was thinking if he were 250 lbs. he would be a real strong candidate at SILB.

 

[Hypothesis]

I know, I was thinking if he were 250 lbs. he would be a real strong candidate at SILB.

Farrior is not really a "Thumper" either at 6'2 243.

Another area of concern for me is NT. Gabe Watson wasn't very effective and was a healthy scratch for games down the stretch. Branch is an excellent depth DE. Robinson is retiring more than likely and he wasn't very effective. A guy that I might look at via FA is Paul Soliai the 6'4 350lb NT from Miami if he's not too expensive. He had a good year last year and is slated to be a FA. Work ethic is a concern but most NTs that will be available will have some sort of work ethic concern.

Great post Mitch!

 

[Krangodnzr]

Farrior is not really a "Thumper" either at 6'2 243.

Another area of concern for me is NT. Gabe Watson wasn't very effective and was a healthy scratch for games down the stretch. Branch is an excellent depth DE. Robinson is retiring more than likely and he wasn't very effective. A guy that I might look at via FA is Paul Soliai the 6'4 350lb NT from Miami if he's not too expensive. He had a good year last year and is slated to be a FA. Work ethic is a concern but most NTs that will be available will have some sort of work ethic concern.

Great post Mitch!

That's just the kind of depth signing that successful teams make on a yearly basis, but the Cards for some reason have never figured out.

I've seen some posters suggest we should use a high pick on a NT backup, but that would be folly as well. Successful teams plug those spots with solid veterans or later picks, not 2nd rounders unless they're looking to the future.

 

[PJ1]

A project QB is a project QB.

Skelton has a lot to learn, but when you look for any QB who did ANYTHING positive in 2010, he is it. I think Skelton makes the Cardinals pass on any high round QB. Andrew Luck was the type of QB that could start right off the bat in the NFL. The rest are all projects.

Why on earth people want Gabbert is beyond me. A big QB who has to make the transition from a spread offense to the NFL offense who would be a project.....uh, we already have one of those in Skelton.

The rest, Newton, Kaepernik, Locker, are all projects, and IMO, high risk.

If and when the Cardinals draft a QB, it is for a long time 3rd QB position. There is no doubt the Cardinals are bringing in a veteran, and unless Skelton makes about 2 years progress in a shortened offseason, I believe the vet will start.

Not, only do I think IF the Cards draft a QB it will be a 3rd stringer to compete with Skelton, and am bordering on the fact I think the Cardinals might even go to Free agency for the 3rd stringer as well.

When I look at the QB draft class I see a lot of projects, and high risk players. Maybe a McElroy in the 4th, or some other guy who drops. We will see, but once Andrew Luck stayed in college, and in comparison to the promise Skelton has shown as a rookie, it is tough to spend a high round draft pick, especially with free agency in question, on a QB when needs on defense, and the offensive line are so glaring.

Glad to see someone else seeing Gabbert as a project similar to Skelton. A vet needs to start for the Cards this year. Let Skelton compete and learn more this year. Drafting another project is a waste.

 

[Matt L]

If we let breaston go, I hope there is at least one WR signed as a #2 and then draft Tithe Young in the second

 

[Buckybird]

Glad to see someone else seeing Gabbert as a project similar to Skelton. A vet needs to start for the Cards this year. Let Skelton compete and learn more this year. Drafting another project is a waste.

I don't think Wiz can afford to start Skelton or a rook. The Bidwills are an impatient bunch with coaches & would likely make another mistake in a coaching change if this team wins 4-5 games again. Pray for a CBA!!!

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Farrior is not really a "Thumper" either at 6'2 243.

Another area of concern for me is NT. Gabe Watson wasn't very effective and was a healthy scratch for games down the stretch. Branch is an excellent depth DE. Robinson is retiring more than likely and he wasn't very effective. A guy that I might look at via FA is Paul Soliai the 6'4 350lb NT from Miami if he's not too expensive. He had a good year last year and is slated to be a FA. Work ethic is a concern but most NTs that will be available will have some sort of work ethic concern.

Farrior is certainly not Pittsburgh's thumper. He is their all purpose 3-4 ILB, ala Ray Lewis. And he is one of the best in the game today.

We are hoping Washington can be that guy for us some day.

Best "thumper" ILB of alltime ? Levon Kirkland....well, maybe not the best all time, but one of my favorites.

You must be registered for see images attach

As for Paul Soliai, he is going to be paid to start somewhere.

When looking at backup NT's, it is a small list and there are a lot of 3-4 teams out there.

Shaun Smith, KC (aka the "Ball Grabber")
Chris Hoke, Pit (flippin 34 years old tho)
Jamal Williams, Den - with Denver going back to the 4-3 he might be available, again 34 yrs old
Maybe kick the tires of John McCargo, Buf

 

[Hypothesis]

Farrior is certainly not Pittsburgh's thumper. He is their all purpose 3-4 ILB, ala Ray Lewis. And he is one of the best in the game today.

We are hoping Washington can be that guy for us some day.

Best "thumper" ILB of alltime ? Levon Kirkland....well, maybe not the best all time, but one of my favorites.

You must be registered for see images attach

As for Paul Soliai, he is going to be paid to start somewhere.

When looking at backup NT's, it is a small list and there are a lot of 3-4 teams out there.

Shaun Smith, KC (aka the "Ball Grabber")
Chris Hoke, Pit (flippin 34 years old tho)
Jamal Williams, Den - with Denver going back to the 4-3 he might be available, again 34 yrs old
Maybe kick the tires of John McCargo, Buf

Love Kirkland. Dude was a monster.

As for Washington, I see him being used more as Timmons rather than Farrior. Timmons at 234lbs is pretty all purpose too. Neither of Pittsburgh's ILB are thumpers and both are pretty much all purpose really.

 

[LarryStalling]

Mitch, regarding the initial part of the thread. What are your thoughts about the first rounders getting so much exposure the first year because of the inordinate amount of money that the teams invest in the first rounders? I remember some first round turkeys that ended up being pretty good after a couple of years of experience. Where as many of the low round players never get the opportunity to excel because teams don't have the same pressure for them to succeed.

 

[Cardiac]

Agreed.

I guess after reading your comments, I think the Cardinals will come out of the draft, without drafting a QB.

Who should be brought in to be our 3rd string QB ?

Tyler Thigpen !!!!!

Thank you and goodnight.

I want a vet FA acquired this offseason, whenever the CBA gets done.

I want the Cards to look long and hard at Newton and Gabbert. Even if they believe it will take a couple of years for one of them to develop but when they hit the field we will have a legit NFL QB then DO ITT and draft one.
If they don't like these two and feel they will become nothing special then draft the BPA regardless of need. Actually this is where I would trade down and get my compensation for doing so in next years draft. Maybe a late rd pick this year but a 1st or 2nd rd pick next year.

I don't care who the 3rd string QB is because 99 times out of a 100 that player is just a body. I mean I really don't care so if it's Hall or Bartel or...It just doens't matter to me unless it is Gabbert or Newton

If the CBA gets done in time for FA and mini camps then there is hope for the 2011 season not being a wash for the Cards. If the stand off runs into preseason games then Horton will not have time to get the D players trained in the new defense. Any rookie D players drafted this year will get minimal playing time. We probably won't have had a chance to get our vet FA QB so it's Skelton and without the minicamps and ability to work with him during the offseason he will still have a TON to learn.

Sorry to hijack the thread because Mitch did a fantastic job with this topic.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Love Kirkland. Dude was a monster.

As for Washington, I see him being used more as Timmons rather than Farrior. Timmons at 234lbs is pretty all purpose too. Neither of Pittsburgh's ILB are thumpers and both are pretty much all purpose really.

Hmm. You have a point there. I may be dated on who is playing where in the Pittsburgh defense.

I though Timmons was a lot bigger than 234lbs, but there it is. So, I am in fact mistaken. At one point I believe Farrior played the other position.

Again, I may be all confused on the situation.

Regardless my point being, and we all seem to agree is most times your

SILB: - Big thumper, run stopping ILB

and

WILB - All purpose, coverage, and play the run guy.

And even if not agreed on the nomenclature, the fact is you need both in a 3-4.