Thoughts on Horton and Updated HC Predictions

Mitch

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Horton has said he is a delegator---that he would put the offense and defense in the hands of "experts" and let them do their jobs.

I have been especially curious to learn what Horton's choices for offensive and defensive experts are.

MJ apparently knows who the defensive expert is---as he reported it is a college coach. Hmmm.

Curious that the expert didn't come from within Horton's defensive staff---and I wonder what the ramifications of that would be.

First---with regard to the current coaches---are they going to concede that a college coach is the expert?

Secondly---with the players---a totally brand new guy, when they guy they love playing for is no longer calling the defense.

Horton's choice here could be a sign of questionable decision making right from the get-go---

Or, depending on the college coach and his assimilation into or back into the NFL (if he had previous NFL experience) and into the Cardinals' system, it could be a stroke of genius.

On the offensive side, I have reason to believe that one of Horton's coaches would be Mark Whipple (Brown's QB coach---and former Steeler's QB coach).

Whipple is, imo, a superb choice, either as QB coach or OC. He has an Ivy League mind and a down to earth charisma that players love.

Earlier this year when the Browns unexpectedly won three games in a row---Whipple received a phone call of congratulations after the third win by Ben Roethlisberger (a divison rival no less, but a player who always appreciated the way Whipple helped develop him as a QB).

Whipple also coached Kevin Kolb for a year in Philly when Whip was one of Andy Reid's assistants---and Whip was fond of Kolb...liked his work-ethic and his character.

The job Whip did with Brandon Weeden this year was commendable. Whip likes Weeden a lot---and sees the makings of a very good NFL QB in Weeden.

If Chip Kelly lands in Cleveland, as expected, it's quite likely that Kelly would retain Whipple, who is still under contract with the Browns. Kelly and Whipple go quite a ways back and there is a mutual affinity there.

Thus, if Horton wants Whipple---he would have to offer him the OC job (that is unless Kelly offers him the Browns' OC spot, at which point Whip would stay in Cleveland).

Speaking of the Browns---what does it say that a new owner whose history has been with the Pittsburgh Steelers that his choice for HC is Chip Kelly over Ken Whisenhunt?

Update: prediction (team & coach):

Arizona: Ray Horton---the guy wants it badly---he has the respect of the players and the support of the fans. Bidwill will get outbid by the Bears for McCoy.

Buffalo: Lovie Smith---the Bills have invested a lot of money in their defensive personnel and in a division where the Patriots reign that's a very good idea, They need a defensive chef and in Lovie they get one of the very best---it only makes sense.

Chicago: Mike McCoy---makes all the sense in the world because they need Jay Cutler to play at the highest of levels.

Cleveland: Chip Kelly---new ownership and a whole new approach---this hire is a big splash and will have the hounds yelping rabidly.

Kansas City: Andy Reid---what a coup for Reid as he assumes the ind of power NFL HCs dream of.

Philadelphia: Bruce Arians---would be a popular choice and has in-state ties. Has done an amazing job with the Colts.

San Diego: Kyle Shanahan---they have been taking their time and by the time the dust settles, Shanahan gives them a fresh beginning of what could be a long-term tenure in SD.

Quick snaps:

* Is the college game exciting to watch? I can't recall being so genuinely interested and riveted to so many bowl games, can you?

* Watching Oklahoma dink and dunk and Landry Jones throw an array of 3-5 yard passes was painful to watch, for obvious reasons. The dink and dunk is just a turnover waiting to happen---it's like playing in a tight red zone all game long.

* Johnny Football---with Russell Wilson's tremendous success as a rookie, Johnny Football will be a top three pick when he comes out.

* My predictions: Texans, Packers, Ravens, Seahawks.

* Prediction: because it's the coordinators that are so critical to a team's success in the NFL today, some owner like Jerry Jones is going to pay a coordinator HC money---which will pioneer a dramatic change in coaches' pay.

* I feel about Ray Horton the same way I would if I were a Steelers' fan and Dick LeBeau was elevated to HC---I don't want anyone else but him to run the defense. This is why I would be happy if MB signed an offensive minded HC---because I do not believe that Horton will get a HC job this year and perhaps for a few years.

* If MB does hire an offensive HC (and there are several to be excited about: Mike McCoy, Jay Gruden, Kyle Shanahan, Tom Clements & more)---one can imagine he will give Ray Horton a raise and assistant HC status---not so sure that would appease Horton, but when he sees the higher figure on his paychecks that should ease the frustration somewhat.
 
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Reddog

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Mitch do you or anyone else know what we pay Horton? Don’t know how much money matters to him but if we paid Grimm $1M I can see paying him north of that to stay our DC and assistant HC should he not get a HC job and we are able to land a good offensive minded HC.

Don't know Ray but the dynamic of the "bridesmaid" not getting to be the "bride" might be a toxic dynamic to force on a new HC who has no relationship with Horton coming in. Obviously Bidwill understood this dynamic enough not to retain Graves in some capacity.
 

JeffGollin

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Mitch - I totally agree with you about the excitement of the college football product.

Regarding Kelly, if he retains the Cleveland OC, how interested might the Cardinals be in Oregon's current OC?
 

GuernseyCard

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Interesting. There is some speculation on Twitter that the D-C targeted is Derek Moore from Stanford.
 
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Mitch

Mitch

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Mitch do you or anyone else know what we pay Horton? Don’t know how much money matters to him but if we paid Grimm $1M I can see paying him north of that to stay our DC and assistant HC should he not get a HC job and we are able to land a good offensive minded HC.

Don't know Ray but the dynamic of the "bridesmaid" not getting to be the "bride" might be a toxic dynamic to force on a new HC who has no relationship with Horton coming in. Obviously Bidwill understood this dynamic enough not to retain Graves in some capacity.

MJ said the other night that Horton would be delighted to be paid in the $3M range as HC. I think he said so would Todd Haley.
 

conraddobler

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Romeo Crennel is available as a DC, I wish everyone would get off the Horton love, if you put Romeo in charge of our defense it will only get better.

McCoy is my favorite choice, Arians is another one.
 
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Mitch

Mitch

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Mitch - I totally agree with you about the excitement of the college football product.

Regarding Kelly, if he retains the Cleveland OC, how interested might the Cardinals be in Oregon's current OC?

Jeff---Oregon has been maintaining to the media that if Kelly gets an NFL HC gig, their OC, Mark Helfrich will be promoted to HC.

It's doubtful under those circumstances that Helfrich would be interested in an NFL OC job, as he would be paid three times by Oregon what NFL OCs typically make. Plus, he gets HC experience.
 

Reddog

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MJ said the other night that Horton would be delighted to be paid in the $3M range as HC. I think he said so would Todd Haley.

No doubt about that but I am wondering about current salary vs potential DC/Asst. HC money ala Grimm. The real question is can $$$ mend his broken heart if he doesn't get the Cards HC job?
 

Lagerfilled

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No offense Mitch, but it already sounds like you're laying the groundwork for a good ol' I told you so Cards bash if Horton or any of his proposed staff fail. Guess we'll just have to wait and see!
 

moosehead

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I'd rather have Horton's role in the defense diminished by promoting him to head Coach than have his tutelage gone all together. Maybe it's his confidence that he is effusing, but I think he will be a HC somewhere....
 

PJ1

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Do you know if Whipple is still squeezing the Charmin?....Could be a problem..
 

CtCardinals78

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Romeo Crennel is available as a DC, I wish everyone would get off the Horton love, if you put Romeo in charge of our defense it will only get better.

McCoy is my favorite choice, Arians is another one.

I'm hearing Crennel and Pioli would be welcomed back in New England. Which is good, I want no part of Pioli.
 

gmabel830

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If Chip Kelly lands in Cleveland, as expected, it's quite likely that Kelly would retain Whipple, who is still under contract with the Browns. Kelly and Whipple go quite a ways back and there is a mutual affinity there.

Thus, if Horton wants Whipple---he would have to offer him the OC job (that is unless Kelly offers him the Browns' OC spot, at which point Whip would stay in Cleveland).

Speaking of the Browns---what does it say that a new owner whose history has been with the Pittsburgh Steelers that his choice for HC is Chip Kelly over Ken Whisenhunt?

Couldn't Cleveland still block a Whipple move if they wanted to? Before we hired Horton we tried to get Butler who was the Steelers LB coach for DC but the Steelers denied the request.

Also re: Kelly over Whiz, all it really tells me is that they have a new owner interested in creating a buzz and winning the press conference. There were reports that the Browns owner was willing to offer Kelly a blank check before even meeting with him.
 

az jam

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* I feel about Ray Horton the same way I would if I were a Steelers' fan and Dick LeBeau was elevated to HC---I don't want anyone else but him to run the defense. This is why I would be happy if MB signed an offensive minded HC---because I do not believe that Horton will get a HC job this year and perhaps for a few years.

* If MB does hire an offensive HC (and there are several to be excited about: Mike McCoy, Jay Gruden, Kyle Shanahan, Tom Clements & more)---one can imagine he will give Ray Horton a raise and assistant HC status---not so sure that would appease Horton, but when he sees the higher figure on his paychecks that should ease the frustration somewhat.

Mitch, I agree that other than the Cardinal HC position, Horton is not a real candidate for any of the other openings. He interviewed with the Bills and Browns. I don't see either hiring him. He is under contract here and what you are suggesting could happen. We hire someone like McCoy and give Horton more money and the Assistant HC status. He is a professional and would still do his best, He would be a hot candidate again for HC openings in the future.
 

HoodieBets

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Only place Horton becomes a HC is AZ. His only other chance was Clev but thats over now with chip going there. Buff will hire Lovie or Whiz, I dont see Horton in the mix there. Horton could go to Jax if Keim gets the GM Job or Keim could want Haley to work with tebow who they will sign.
 

THESMEL

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I thought Tressle would be an interesting hire-
 

Southpaw

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Can the Cardinals really afford to go with a rookie Head Coach?
 

binkar

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Can the Cardinals really afford to go with a rookie Head Coach?

Sure they can. There is risk with any coach you hire:

A college coach likely has no NFL Head Coaching experience.
An NFL coordinator likely has no head coaching experience anywhere.
A former NFL Head Coach is someone who likely has experienced failure elsewhere.

You just have to go with the candidate you are confident is the right person to lead your team, and MOST importantly, someone you're confident can surround themselves with great coordinators and position coaches.
 

JeffGollin

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Can the Cardinals really afford to go with a rookie Head Coach?
Couldn't you consider Harbaugh and Carroll "rookie head coaches since they hadn't ben coaching in the NFL for a number of years?

In the end, we're talking about leaders of grown men; 11 of whom at any given time and beat the crap out of each other over an oblong ball that bounces funny.

Keep it simple - it's only football.
 

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