Thoughts on Lon Babby

[JCSunsfan]

Listening to Babby on KTAR. I have some thoughts.

1. He said that his greatest asset is the ability to negotiate. Wants to find a GM whose specialty is talent evaluation so that they can work together as a team in building a roster. Said the GM with not so much work "under" him as work "with" him ("not a number two, but a '1A' ") providing a skill set that he does not have.

At first, I like this. Kerr's seemed to be as a talent evaluator but not so much as a negotiator. Goodness, knows that the Suns could use someone with an agent's tenacity in negotiating trade terms and contract details. I have not been a Sarver fan, but if he chose Babby because he saw that the Suns front office lacked a shrewd negotiator, well, good for him.

2. Babby has been well respected around the league by both players and mgmt. That is a pretty tough rep to build. He also represents alot of the quality human beings in the league.

The real test is who he will be able to draw as a talent evaluator. Just speculating now. I wonder if Sarver wanted to hire a negotiator and limit Kerr to talent evaluation, and Kerr wouldn't do it.

 

[Hayduke]

I gotta say if Ray Allen, Tim Duncan, Shane Battier and Hill all like and respect him, as well as having a reputation of being a good negotiator, I don't see how this could be bad. Isn't he the reason we have Hedo now?

 

[Sunburn]

I think Penn is a good judge of talent. I think I heard that he was the one ultimately responsible for bringing in Aldridge over Tyrus Thomas in that draft class. He also is a cap expert, which I really, really like, and I think is another valuable skill he can bring to the table with Babby. Demps has an eye for talent. Mainly, I think he's a draft guy, but an eye for talent is an eye for talent, and it's what the Suns have stated they're looking for now. Plus, he's a San Anton boy, which you know scores major brownie points in Sarver's book.

Ultimately, because of Penn's cap expertise, I'd prefer him. It's just one more very valuable skill that is being offered, and it might become all the more important after the new CBA. Plus, Portland isn't exactly an organization that's been run into the ground either. That has been a highly effective and shrewd FO for years now. They know how to run a ship.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Babby is a lawyer and a detail guy. Interestingly, one of the reasons stated for bringing him in is to have a lawyers perspective on the new CBA. He will be immediately looking at how to use it (loopholes etc) to the Suns advantage.

He will be the cap guy. Its not really a bad plan.

 

[Errntknght]

Babby is not off to an auspicious start... saddling us with Warrick and Hedo's still less than wonderful contract, and we didn't nab the GM we wanted. We'll see how he fares bringing in a GM. I guess his areas of expertise could prove valuable negotiating the minefield the next CBA is expected to be.

 

[Folster]

Babby is not off to an auspicious start... saddling us with Warrick and Hedo's still less than wonderful contract, and we didn't nab the GM we wanted. We'll see how he fares bringing in a GM. I guess his areas of expertise could prove valuable negotiating the minefield the next CBA is expected to be.

I don't know if he had anything to do with Frye and Warrick. He definitely had a hand in bringing in Hedo and Childress.

 

[Covert Rain]

I just don't like guys who don't know basketball in basketball positions. This rarely works out IMO. I heard Sarver say that he wants to keep things going that Jerry started yet you hear that the Suns employees are unhappy. Now you bring in a "business man" to help you run a team. Many have already said that Sarver cares more about the bottom line and making money with the team then winning a title.

Doesn't this move smack of that philosophy?

Now on the radio I heard that Sarver plans on laying off 80% of his college scouting department because he feels like he is paying scouts money to run around the country watching college games just to sign the guy to a small contract. The word is that he feels that the Suns can do all the scouting they need when teams come to play the Suns from the NBA perspective. So, how is he going to evaluate talent? By watching March Madness?

Shouldn't these types of decisions that could severely impact basketball operations be made by a basketball person versus a Banker and agent?

I have said it before and I will say it again. People give Sarver credit for spending on his roster but he does it at the expense of other parts of the organization. To me that supports him being a cheap skate and doesn't dispel it. If I Rob from Peter to give to Paul that doesn't make me generous.

I don't like where this franchise is headed one bit.

 

[Chaplin]

I just don't like guys who don't know basketball in basketball positions. This rarely works out IMO. I heard Sarver say that he wants to keep things going that Jerry started yet you hear that the Suns employees are unhappy. Now you bring in a "business man" to help you run a team. Many have already said that Sarver cares more about the bottom line and making money with the team then winning a title.

Doesn't this move smack of that philosophy?

Now on the radio I heard that Sarver plans on laying off 80% of his scouting department because he feels like he is paying NBA scouts money to run around the country watching games. The word is that he feels that the Suns can do all the scouting they need when teams come to play the Suns. They said he is also laying off his college scouts as well. So, how is he going to evaluate talent? By watching March Madness?

Shouldn't these types of decisions that could severely impact basketball operations be made by a basketball person versus a Banker and agent?

I have said it before and I will say it again. People give Sarver credit for spending on his roster but he does it at the expense of other parts of the organization. To me that supports him being a cheap skate and doesn't dispel it. If I Rob from peter to give to Paul that doesn't make me generous.

I don't like where this franchise is headed one bit.

Everything you said here goes against what Sarver himself said yesterday in Lon Babby's press conference.

 

[Covert Rain]

Everything you said here goes against what Sarver himself said yesterday in Lon Babby's press conference.

He criticized the "year long" scouting process of College Players. He basically said it was a waste because you sign a college player to a small contract then you sign a free agent for a huge one. Then he contradicted himself later and said he would spend about the same on college scouting. That is what I heard and I scratched my head after I had seen it. The on the radio this morning they said "sources" were indicating that the NBA scouting department might be expanding the but college scouts will be reduced. I also should clarify what I said above. What they said on the radio is that most of the scouting staff scouted college. Those guys are going to be let go in favor of full time NBA scouts if the report is true. They also mentioned that the travel budget will be reduced because he felt that most of the scouting can be done by watching the players as the Suns play them over the course of the season.

So, even if you interpret that part different then I do it doesn't change anything about bringing in a lawyer to run your Basketball Operations. Sarver said (unless is was another misspoken comment by Sarver) that all the front office guys will report to Lon.

He is bringing him in the organization to get a leg up on negotiations when it comes to contracts....in other words save money. Sarver is a business man. Lon is a Lawyer who negotiates contracts. Sarver didn't want to pay Kerr or promote Griffin which would require to pay him more.

You now have a banker and Attorney in the two top spots. What about that says basketball to you? We have already seen the lengths he will go to save money even when he spends it.

 

[Chaz]

He criticized the "year long" scouting process of College Players. He basically said it was a waste because you sign a college player to a small contract then you sign a free agent for a huge one. Then he contradicted himself later and said he would spend about the same on college scouting. That is what I heard and I scratched my head after I had seen it. The on the radio this morning they said "sources" were indicating that the NBA scouting department might be expanding the but college scouts will be reduced. I also should clarify what I said above. What they said on the radio is that most of the scouting staff scouted college. Those guys are going to be let go in favor of full time NBA scouts if the report is true. They also mentioned that the travel budget will be reduced because he felt that most of the scouting can be done by watching the players as the Suns play them over the course of the season.

So, even if you interpret that part different then I do it doesn't change anything about bringing in a lawyer to run your Basketball Operations. Sarver said (unless is was another misspoken comment by Sarver) that all the front office guys will report to Lon.

He is bringing him in the organization to get a leg up on negotiations when it comes to contracts....in other words save money. Sarver is a business man. Lon is a Lawyer who negotiates contracts. Sarver didn't want to pay Kerr or promote Griffin which would require to pay him more.

You now have a banker and Attorney in the two top spots. What about that says basketball to you? We have already seen the lengths he will go to save money even when he spends it.

I don't know what you were watching but Sarver never said the college scouting would be reduced. He said very clearly that it would be increased if anything. He said they were expanding NBA scouting to be more like the college scouting in scope. I don't think he criticized the college scouting. I think he was saying that it seemed odd to spend so much time and effort on one but not the other.

 

[Covert Rain]

I don't know what you were watching but Sarver never said the college scouting would be reduced. He said very clearly that it would be increased if anything. He said they were expanding NBA scouting to be more like the college scouting in scope. I don't think he criticized the college scouting. I think he was saying that it seemed odd to spend so much time and effort on one but not the other.

Read my 2nd post. IMO he did criticize the process of college scouting by pointing out the little return. Also, I am not referring to the press conference when saying they will be reducing the college scouts. I was referring to a report I heard on the radio.

That is only one small part of my post though. This is mainly about the Organization being more concerned about Business IMO then actually basketball itself. If the Suns didn't make the playoffs 2 years in a row, do you really think Sarver would still have this team together and have any kind of payroll spent on this roster?

 

[Chaplin]

Read my 2nd post. IMO he did criticize the process of college scouting by pointing out the little return. Also, I am not referring to the press conference when saying they will be reducing the college scouts. I was referring to a report I heard on the radio.

That is only one small part of my post though. This is mainly about the Organization being more concerned about Business IMO then actually basketball itself. If the Suns didn't make the playoffs 2 years in a row, do you really think Sarver would still have this team together and have any kind of payroll spent on this roster?

I know you think Sarver is a liar, but I'm wondering why you give a radio report by "sources" so much credence?

 

[Chaz]

Read my 2nd post. IMO he did criticize the process of college scouting by pointing out the little return. Also, I am not referring to the press conference when saying they will be reducing the college scouts. I was referring to a report I heard on the radio.

That is only one small part of my post though. This is mainly about the Organization being more concerned about Business IMO then actually basketball itself. If the Suns didn't make the playoffs 2 years in a row, do you really think Sarver would still have this team together and have any kind of payroll spent on this roster?

Like it or not professional basketball is a business. From an ownership perspective I don't see how you can separate the two.

There is no point in playing what if games. If they weren't good enough to make the playoffs it is just as possible they would have spent more to get themselves there.

 

[Gaddabout]

The Suns are not laying off 80 percent of their scouting staff. There is a shift and the Suns plan on being a player in the free agent market over the next few years. Sarver doesn't want to be a lottery team. Ever. Because of that he feels it's better to be experts in current NBA personnel for free agency and trades, with a front office that knows how to find, recruit, and negotiate talent at a value, rather than putting their hopes on rookies that are largely hit-and-miss.

Basically what the Suns did this summer is the new modus operandi for basketball operations going into the future.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns are not laying off 80 percent of their scouting staff. There is a shift and the Suns plan on being a player in the free agent market over the next few years. Sarver doesn't want to be a lottery team. Ever. Because of that he feels it's better to be experts in current NBA personnel for free agency and trades, with a front office that knows how to find, recruit, and negotiate talent at a value, rather than putting their hopes on rookies that are largely hit-and-miss.

Basically what the Suns did this summer is the new modus operandi for basketball operations going into the future.

The thing I remember about the news conference is Sarver saying that there is no reason why Phoenix shouldn't be a preferred destination for players. Superficially it should be. It was indeed a preferred destination for FA's under JC. However, I think Sarver is missing one key element to this equation. JC cultivated a culture of trust with players and staff. Everything was always done professionally and in a high class way. IMO, Sarver has a long way to go to create a stable organization.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The thing I remember about the news conference is Sarver saying that there is no reason why Phoenix shouldn't be a preferred destination for players. Superficially it should be. It was indeed a preferred destination for FA's under JC. However, I think Sarver is missing one key element to this equation. JC cultivated a culture of trust with players and staff. Everything was always done professionally and in a high class way. IMO, Sarver has a long way to go to create a stable organization.

colangelo also always attempted to at least portray that the team was always striving for a championship. i don't think we can say that about sarver's regime. yes, he's been wildly successful, but i don't think he always tried everything to win. and even if jerry didn't try everything to win, at least there was always that perception. and i think that plays large with FAs.

jerry was constantly ADDING to his core (chambers, ainge, barkley, manning, tisdale, ac green, mcdyess, googs, penny etc.), even if it wasn't successful. from sarver's core it seems like it's been constant attrition (Qrich, jj, marion, stoudamire).

 

[AzStevenCal]

but i don't think he always tried everything to win.

You could be wrong. Maybe he's done everything he possibly could to win but he's just incredibly inept. I'm just saying, there is a bright side.

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

colangelo also always attempted to at least portray that the team was always striving for a championship. i don't think we can say that about sarver's regime. yes, he's been wildly successful, but i don't think he always tried everything to win. and even if jerry didn't try everything to win, at least there was always that perception. and i think that plays large with FAs.

jerry was constantly ADDING to his core (chambers, ainge, barkley, manning, tisdale, ac green, mcdyess, googs, penny etc.), even if it wasn't successful. from sarver's core it seems like it's been constant attrition (Qrich, jj, marion, stoudamire).

Really? You don't think trading a malcontent for Shaq was striving to win?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Really? You don't think trading a malcontent for Shaq was striving to win?

i think there were moves that were trying to win, i just don't think he tried EVERYTHING to win. getting rid of kurt when he was still useful (and ended up biting us in the butt) is one example. i understand the business reason behind the move (though not the trading of 2 firsts), but from a basketball perspective it wasn't trying everything to win. same with initially lowballing jj back in the day. there are other such instances, but i can't, or don't want, to think of 'em.

and though time may have robbed me of some memory, i just can't think of instances where i thought a move jerry made was not trying to win. were there questionable moves (like trading majerle for hotrod)? yup. but they always seemed motivated by trying for a championship and not business-related.

and again, i'm talking PERCEPTION here.

 

[Superbone]

You could be wrong. Maybe he's done everything he possibly could to win but he's just incredibly inept. I'm just saying, there is a bright side.

Steve

That's the bright side?

 

[Chaplin]

i think there were moves that were trying to win, i just don't think he tried EVERYTHING to win. getting rid of kurt when he was still useful (and ended up biting us in the butt) is one example. i understand the business reason behind the move (though not the trading of 2 firsts), but from a basketball perspective it wasn't trying everything to win. same with initially lowballing jj back in the day. there are other such instances, but i can't, or don't want, to think of 'em.

and though time may have robbed me of some memory, i just can't think of instances where i thought a move jerry made was not trying to win. were there questionable moves (like trading majerle for hotrod)? yup. but they always seemed motivated by trying for a championship and not business-related.

and again, i'm talking PERCEPTION here.

What about trading for Marbury and/or trading him away (although I will concede that trading him away was mainly to get rid of Penny's contract)?

 

[Errntknght]

Colangelo would not hire a strong minded coach in order to win, he always went for a coach who would be under his control. There was never even a rumor about him hiring a coach that strong ideas about the way a team should be run. Sure he wanted the Suns to win the title, but he was very careful that he would get the credit if it ever happened. Choosing his son to follow him as the GM was another move that didn't convince me he was going all out in pursuit of a title - quite the reverse, in fact, when BC proved to be inept. (Granted he improved a bit over time - to mediocre - though thats looking a bit questionable of late.)

 

[AzStevenCal]

(Granted he improved a bit over time - to mediocre - though thats looking a bit questionable of late.)

How can you say that? Brian got some idiot to take Hedo and his bloated contract off his hands and it didn't even cost him the 2 draft picks anyone else would have demanded. If that's not shrewd negotiating than I don't know what is.

Steve

 

[Errntknght]

How can you say that? Brian got some idiot to take Hedo and his bloated contract off his hands and it didn't even cost him the 2 draft picks anyone else would have demanded. If that's not shrewd negotiating than I don't know what is.

Steve

He's shameless, thats what he is... taking advantage of a GMless team like that...

Actually, undoing his mistake of the prior year was a good move, I thought, but one sportswriter said he thought BC should get Exec of Year because he had helped three teams already this summer - Miami, Phoenix and another I don't recall.

 

[Mainstreet]

He's shameless, thats what he is... taking advantage of a GMless team like that...

IMO, Sarver chose the path to be without a GM at this time. I can't imagine Kerr refusing to stay on for a few more weeks.

However, in looking at Turkoglu, one must deduct LB's salary (14.7M) versus Turkoglu's salary to gain some perspective in regard to the financial consequences. See quote from Paul Coro at azcentral dated July 11th, 2010.

Turkoglu, 31, has played 10 NBA seasons with four teams and wanted out of Toronto after being unhappy there in the first year of a five-year, $53 million contract. To come to Phoenix, Turkoglu is yielding about $5 million of his trade kicker and reducing the guaranteed money on the final year of his contract, which was worth $12 million in 2013-14. He also has an early termination option on that season.

Turkoglu will make $9.8 million, $10.6 million and $11.4 million salaries in the next three seasons while Barbosa, coming off his career's worst shooting season, was owed $14.7 million for the next two seasons.

If I get the math anywhere close, I add the above three yearly salaries on Turkoglu, about 32M plus only 6M guaranteed his fourth season and I come up with about 38M dollars. Then I deduct about 15M of LB's salary and I come up with the Suns getting Turkoglu for three seasons at about 23M dollars even wiping out the fourth season if everything crashes.

Since the Suns were desperate for another quality big man (not to argue what position Turkoglu plays), I think Turkoglu helps the Suns more than LB. However, I will say, I think LB going to Toronto is a great move for him. I look for a good season from him after he breaks away from the constraints of the Suns. The same for Turkoglu after leaving Toronto.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...uns-acquire-hedo-turkoglu-josh-childress.html