Thoughts on the draft as a whole

[bg7brd]

Niklas had 32 receptions for 498 yards, that's a 15.5 YPC average. Comparatively, Eric Ebron - 62 receptions, 15.7 YPC; Austin Seferian-Jenkins - 36 receptions, 12.5 ypc; Jace Amaro - 106 receptions, 12.8 ypc. Why do people keep saying the Niklas is will be a good blocker but not a receiving threat? Or that he won't get downfield?


+1

Niklas is my favorite draft pick. I think he's going to have a big impact on our offense.

 

[Duckjake]

I saw several VT games and, sadly, I have to agree with this. He's scud missle II. He can throw a laser perfect pass, and then on the next two throws miss by 5 ft overthrow or underthrow. A great looking athlete, but QBing is a lot more than pure athleticism.


This is the one pick I've grown to really, really dislike. If we really want a QBOF, then go for it dammit. Enough crossing our fingers on projects and UDFA. Quit dinking around. Man, it's not every year you can go 10-6 and have a draft pick where you wind up with your choice between 2 of the top 3 QBs in the draft.

How did you manage to see several VT games? I'd also like to ask how anyone who doesn't attend Washington State games in person saw several of the Cougars games. Its not like those teams are on TV in other parts of the country every week are they?

Just curious.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

I'd also like to ask how anyone who doesn't attend Washington State games in person saw several of the Cougars games. Its not like those teams are on TV in other parts of the country every week are they?

Just curious.

I've seen my Cougs play 11 times the past two years on the PAC-12 Network. I could have seen more if I watched the replays.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I think this will go down as one of the worst drafts in Cards history.

 

[PACardsFan]

I think this will go down as one of the worst drafts in Cards history.

You've been a fan far too long to actually believe that. Just adding Bucannon & Niklas make it better than at least half of the drafts I've seen over the years. Niklas will be the best TE we've had since Jackie Smith.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Good analysis Chopper, however, I just can't get positive at all on Logan Thomas. He has no touch and you can't teach accuracy. He has regressed not improved since his sophomore year. I watched him throughout the Senior Bowl week and game, he was terrible. He reminds me of a poor version of Derick Anderson.

I really hope I am wrong but feel we wasted a 4th round pick.

Improved mechanics = improved accuracy

(I remember Cam spraying the ball at the Combine)

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Troy Niklas has Jason Witten potential to me. This thing I liked about him most is he is a early entry guy as a junior. BA made the comment he would have been Top 10 next year coming out as a senior. Maybe a bit of hyperbole but He's only played TE for 2 years and last year showed big time progress in the pass catching space. I think he fits the mold of TE BA wants more then any other prospect in this draft. Very excited about this pick. Bucannon will be biggest playmaker and quickest impact (man did we need a head hunter in the back field) but Niklas may end up being the transcendent player if we drafted one.

 

[joeshmo]

For those that don't have ESPN insider here are Kipers and McShays thoughts:

Kiper gave us a solid B, 15th out of 32.

McShays favorite picks for each team he said he loved the John Brown Pick for us - "I really like this pick. The Cardinals needed to add depth to their receiving corps both for this year and going forward, and Brown has a high upside at the position. He possesses an excellent combination of speed and quickness out of cuts, which allows him to create good separation from defensive backs, and he can be a nightmare for defenses to bring down in the open field. He also loves going over the middle."

 

[overseascardfan]

There seems to be a lot of love being shown to Brown by the draft pundits, I can understand, the guys is very fast and productive. My question is why didn't ARZ take Martavious Bryant who could replace Fitz after next year?He has the size (6'4) and speed (sub 4.4) and was huge for Clemson this year. Brown is already 24, so he needs to develop quickly whereas Bryant is a couple of years uounger and played against much better competition.

 

[az jam]

Improved mechanics = improved accuracy

(I remember Cam spraying the ball at the Combine)

Didn't work with John Skelton or Derrick Anderson. But will be glad to be proven wrong.

 

[TJ]

I've seen my Cougs play 11 times the past two years on the PAC-12 Network. I could have seen more if I watched the replays.

Nice Joba the Hut avatar

 

[GuernseyCard]

Didn't work with John Skelton or Derrick Anderson. But will be glad to be proven wrong.

Coaching staff past, coaching staff present.

We'll see what's unveiled in a year or two.

 

[Duckjake]

I've seen my Cougs play 11 times the past two years on the PAC-12 Network. I could have seen more if I watched the replays.

Thanks.

Do they show every Pac 12 team's games? Either live or on replays.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

I understand why we didn't move up for one of them but that doesn't mean it wasn't disappointing to not have gotten one. Now, we are putting ourselves in a tough spot for next year. Palmer is a FA. Abraham is a FA. Dockett will have a huge cap number. Fitzgerald will have a huge cap number. Peterson will need an extension. A bunch of premium positions that we don't have much on our roster in the way of replacing. An edge rusher would have made that list a bit shorter.

This I agree with. Not addressing a speed OLB will hurt us next year and could leave us short this year if we have any injuries.

I have been able to take a breather and step back to see what this staff was trying to do. I do believe they had a plan, but had to adjust it due to players being taken right in front of us.

They worked with what was dealt to them and got what they could. Let's let it play out and see.

 

[oaken1]

You can't win every draft...... I am okay with blue collar kinda players and I like what we got for the most part....

IMO the staff was making a statement, taking chances, doing it their own way...and that's okay

to me this is a "Legacy" draft....make or break....BASK will be remembered and defined by this draft.

I have no worries about Bucannon or Niklas.....if Martin replaces Abraham next season without a hiccup....and Thomas is the next Tom Brady everyone is looking for....and that little guy Brown gives the NFL nightmares of Barry Sanders.........Then the Arizona Cardinals dynasty begins,....and the staff becomes the stuff of legend


no need to mention what happens if the gambles fail....we have all been down that road too many times

 

[WildBB]

Troy Niklas has Jason Witten potential to me. This thing I liked about him most is he is a early entry guy as a junior. BA made the comment he would have been Top 10 next year coming out as a senior. Maybe a bit of hyperbole but He's only played TE for 2 years and last year showed big time progress in the pass catching space. I think he fits the mold of TE BA wants more then any other prospect in this draft. Very excited about this pick. Bucannon will be biggest playmaker and quickest impact (man did we need a head hunter in the back field) but Niklas may end up being the transcendent player if we drafted one.

Very much looking forward to see those two and Brown should add to the sub pkg. right away.

I think Stinson could push Martin a bit and visa versa. Good idea to double up there with good talent. They can help each other with nuances of the D. They should be good budz.

Same with the WR's on the O side.

 

[D-Dogg]

That's a lot of expectations oaken1. IF Thomas becomes what he could, it really doesn't matter how this draft works for the rest of the players, it becomes legend.

However, with SS and TE both locked down, IMO, it's a win already because I think both of those guys are solid and the TE has a chance to be pro-bowl level. If Martin, Brown or Stinson develop into solid starters, it's a super draft.

But if, and it is a big if, Logan Thomas reaches 80 percent of his ceiling this is a legendary draft on that alone.

It doesn't need all those things to come to fruition. There is no way all 5 of those round 3+ guys all hit big time. Just need a couple of them, or Thomas, and it's gold.

 

[az jam]

Coaching staff past, coaching staff present.

We'll see what's unveiled in a year or two.

Valid point, we will see if that makes a difference.

 

[oaken1]

That's a lot of expectations oaken1. IF Thomas becomes what he could, it really doesn't matter how this draft works for the rest of the players, it becomes legend.

However, with SS and TE both locked down, IMO, it's a win already because I think both of those guys are solid and the TE has a chance to be pro-bowl level. If Martin, Brown or Stinson develop into solid starters, it's a super draft.

But if, and it is a big if, Logan Thomas reaches 80 percent of his ceiling this is a legendary draft on that alone.

It doesn't need all those things to come to fruition. There is no way all 5 of those round 3+ guys all hit big time. Just need a couple of them, or Thomas, and it's gold.

I agree..was just laying out possibilities with most of the guys....

I have always been a firm believer that a coaching staff can make or break a QB....when you combine a good staff with a guy that is hungry and has a chip on his shoulder...it could be dynamic.... I am not full familiar with Thomas but from what little I have seen most of his issues can be corrected with coaching....we have that...so if he is hungry for it he could be decent...if he also has that chip he could be stellar.

I like the Martin pick and think he can be a solid starter.....I do not however think he will straight up replace Abraham next season....IMO he is going to take a couple of seasons to develop. But long run he should be an every down player for us.

would have preferred Archer over Brown...much quicker(0.2s) also younger....but the added age may be what tipped the scales in Brown's favor....more maturity as a whole.

This is just one of those drafts that is not very sexy at the time....but if the picks work it could be awesome come November or so...and get better over the next couple seasons of development.

 

[D-Dogg]

I agree..was just laying out possibilities with most of the guys....

I have always been a firm believer that a coaching staff can make or break a QB....when you combine a good staff with a guy that is hungry and has a chip on his shoulder...it could be dynamic.... I am not full familiar with Thomas but from what little I have seen most of his issues can be corrected with coaching....we have that...so if he is hungry for it he could be decent...if he also has that chip he could be stellar.

I like the Martin pick and think he can be a solid starter.....I do not however think he will straight up replace Abraham next season....IMO he is going to take a couple of seasons to develop. But long run he should be an every down player for us.

would have preferred Archer over Brown...much quicker(0.2s) also younger....but the added age may be what tipped the scales in Brown's favor....more maturity as a whole.

This is just one of those drafts that is not very sexy at the time....but if the picks work it could be awesome come November or so...and get better over the next couple seasons of development.

I hear ya.

Martin, IMO, is the biggest ? for me. They are going to stand him up, and it looks like he has the athleticism to do it but at the same time they are heavily relying on him to be able to do it. With Thomas it's kind of a known project, boom or bust kind of move. Martin was taken with a role in mind. If that move pans out and he can play the OLB well, we are big winners by hitting three of our first 4 picks (I already have faith in SS/TE).

 

[oaken1]

I hear ya.

Martin, IMO, is the biggest ? for me. They are going to stand him up, and it looks like he has the athleticism to do it but at the same time they are heavily relying on him to be able to do it. With Thomas it's kind of a known project, boom or bust kind of move. Martin was taken with a role in mind. If that move pans out and he can play the OLB well, we are big winners by hitting three of our first 4 picks (I already have faith in SS/TE).

I see pluses with Martin....to me his height is an issue at OLB...longer guys do not normally change directions as good as shorter guys....but if he fails at OLB....put him in the gym and stack 20-25 pounds on him and play him at DE...where we already have a guy who is coming to the twilight of his career.

 

[40yearfan]

Didn't work with John Skelton or Derrick Anderson. But will be glad to be proven wrong.

They didn't have our current coaching staff. Whiz was a straight up guy, but his coaching staff left MUCH to be desired.

 

[football karma]

I had to travel this weekend, and was only able to monitor the draft via twitter during spare moments. It's probably better it worked out this way.

I give the draft a C. The grade is not about who they picked, but where they picked them

It just felt like, excluding the Nicklas pick in the 2nd, they took all the guys earlier than they ought to have. I recognize this's unprovable, but it's the impression. You get the sense the FO knows the perception as well, given BAs comment about people calling Logan Thomas

Also curious if guys like Shazier going earlier than they thought, and the comment about their 2nd round board being nearly clear by their pick got them jumping a bit early on guys they liked.

Also interesting in that there seems to be an emphasis on triangle numbers: each of the guys taken have ideal measurements for their position ( with speed trumping size for the WRs).

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Nice Joba the Hut avatar

Don't thank me, thank K9. He picked it after I lost out avatar draft bet.

Thanks.

Do they show every Pac 12 team's games? Either live or on replays.

Depends...they'll replay every PAC-12 vs PAC-12 game, and 90% of road games against different conferences...but I think that some games get blackouted from the network due to the rights the home team conferences have (SEC, ACC, Big 12, etc.) that have their own networks.

 

[kerouac9]

I understand why we didn't move up for one of them but that doesn't mean it wasn't disappointing to not have gotten one. Now, we are putting ourselves in a tough spot for next year. Palmer is a FA. Abraham is a FA. Dockett will have a huge cap number. Fitzgerald will have a huge cap number. Peterson will need an extension. A bunch of premium positions that we don't have much on our roster in the way of replacing. An edge rusher would have made that list a bit shorter.

I thought this, too, but I looked it up, and Palmer's under contract through the 2015 season. His cap number doesn't even go up.

Keim can't help himself when it comes to 3rd round WRs, particularly ones who come from small schools. It's too funny, until you consider the results that he's gotten. Save your signing bonus, kid.

The interesting question for me is how do you gauge "success" from this draft class? We drafted to the most talent-poor positions on our roster, which is a good thing, although it doesn't create a ton of competition or prepare us to jettison aging/expensive/underperforming players.

Bucannon only has to play slightly better than a 35-year-old no one wanted.
Niklas only has to make everyone forget about a former 7th round pick (I'll never forget you, Jimmy).
Martin only needs to beat out two guys who played a combined 186 snaps on defense last year.

IMO, starters who develop from 5th round picks or later are essentially black swan events that happen to most teams with equal frequency. Judge a personnel department by what they do in the first three rounds.