Thunder @ Suns 12-28-18 game thread

[Evil Ash]

This is exactly the point in that article I just read. The player development coach h for the suns says Ayton does this all the time and they keep telling him “shoot it!” And telling him that’s what his teammates want him to do, and initiate contact to get to the free throw line. But ayton’s tesponse is “I think I am making good passes.”

I don’t care what you think big fella. Your coaches and teammates are telling you to dominate when you have a mismatch down low. DO IT!!!

Ayton had zero free throws tonight. ZERO.

I’m glad that his defensive intensity shown through tonight.

I try not to be to hard on him since hes a rookie that's still learning the game but he has some things he has to learn

 

[SunnyBaller]

This is exactly the point in that article I just read. The player development coach h for the suns says Ayton does this all the time and they keep telling him “shoot it!” And telling him that’s what his teammates want him to do, and initiate contact to get to the free throw line. But ayton’s tesponse is “I think I am making good passes.”

I don’t care what you think big fella. Your coaches and teammates are telling you to dominate when you have a mismatch down low. DO IT!!!

Ayton had zero free throws tonight. ZERO.

I’m glad that his defensive intensity shown through tonight.

I think the free throw problem would be addressed with more post up plays or opportunities where players will swipe at him, no one fouls him when he has the lane and is about to slam it they realize they aren't stoping that I'm not worried there , I can appreciate his passing ability he is good at it but he needs to be more way more selfish , he should be second option on this team period, JJ should not take as many or more shots then him in any game right now

 

[1Sun]

They did. He passes when he should've shot it

Then he should have been benched for that, or at least had a good talking to.

Too much passivity at the top.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I try not to be to hard on him since hes a rookie that's still learning the game but he has some things he has to learn

And he’s being coached on virtually every element we are harping on, so hopefully more of it will start to click (some of it already has). But that article made clear, he is being directed to do the right things. It’s not a matter of people telling him not to be aggressive or to avoid fouls.

 

[1Sun]

I think the free throw problem would be addressed with more post up plays or opportunities where players will swipe at him, no one fouls him when he has the lane and is about to slam it they realize they aren't stoping that I'm not worried there , I can appreciate his passing ability he is good at it but he needs to be more way more selfish , he should be second option on this team period, JJ should not take as many or more shots then him in any game right now

Too many shades of Boris Diaw, which should not be all that unexpected given his coach's background.

 

[Mainstreet]

This is exactly the point in that article I just read. The player development coach h for the suns says Ayton does this all the time and they keep telling him “shoot it!” And telling him that’s what his teammates want him to do, and initiate contact to get to the free throw line. But ayton’s tesponse is “I think I am making good passes.”

I don’t care what you think big fella. Your coaches and teammates are telling you to dominate when you have a mismatch down low. DO IT!!!

Ayton had zero free throws tonight. ZERO.

I’m glad that his defensive intensity shown through tonight.

Another thing Ayton may think he will travel or charge on these type plays because the defenders get right at his feet. When in doubt in close, put it on the rim and follow the shot.

 

[1Sun]

And he’s being coached on virtually every element we are harping on, so hopefully more of it will start to click (some of it already has). But that article made clear, he is being directed to do the right things. It’s not a matter of people telling him not to be aggressive or to avoid fouls.

I think it's a matter of people not being aggressive enough in telling him that and then not following through when he gets passive.

 

[SunnyBaller]

As much as we all critique aytons play I think we need to get back to the real problem with the team which is one of the worst point guard rotation to ever grace an NBA court

 

[AzStevenCal]

As much as we all critique aytons play I think we need to get back to the real problem with the team which is one of the worst point guard rotation to ever grace an NBA court

We had good looks but shot poorly, I wouldn't blame most of those misses on poor PG play. Booker, Melton, Jackson and Oubre shot 15 for 44.

 

[Hoop Head]

Crawford better be the greatest locker room presence in NBA history.

He's on a minimum salary and he's already earned that through the first 25 games of the year. With him battling a knee injury recently though Igor should not be playing him more than 5-10 minutes. It was clear he wasn't helping tonight and looked like an 18 year vet.

 

[SunnyBaller]

We had good looks but shot poorly, I wouldn't blame most of those misses on poor PG play. Booker, Melton, Jackson and Oubre shot 15 for 44.

Them going cold wasn't all on PG play of course but Meltons defense has really took a few steps back in the last few games and thats kind of the reason he's supposed to be on the court , and Crawford hasn't help much either

 

[Proximo]

Every time Crawford comes in, he stands at the top of the circle for 15 to 20 seconds than shoots a jumper which he makes at a 30% clip. Every once in a while he sneaks in a nice pass, but overall he is just awful most nights. He is a total sieve on Defense also. We were much better last game with Okobo getting those minutes.

If I have a gripe with Igor, it is that he continues to let that happen. I actually prefer Jackson initiating the offense and he is pretty awful at it also, but at least some movement happens.

 

[sdscard4]

If I have a gripe with Igor......yes many

 

[1Sun]

If I have a gripe with Igor, it is that he continues to let that happen.

For me, that's the problem with Igor in a nutshell, as applied to everything. He continues to let everything happen. He is just way too slow to act or adjust for my taste. Some would call it methodical. I just call it slow and passive.

 

[Errntknght]

I think it's a matter of people not being aggressive enough in telling him that and then not following through when he gets passive.

Well, it might be that he's just heaing too much about his mistakes. He does learn things over time at his own pace. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it helped to dial it back correcting him repeatedly. Sometimes your subconscious digs in its heels when it hears too much. Maybe an approach like: "you know what we want you to do, now. You've heard it enough. Eventually, I'd like you to give it a try and see for yourself how it works." Then shut up and give some time.

 

[1Sun]

Well, it might be that he's just heaing too much about his mistakes. He does learn things over time at his own pace. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it helped to dial it back correcting him repeatedly. Sometimes your subconscious digs in its heels when it hears too much. Maybe an approach like: "you know what we want you to do, now. You've heard it enough. Eventually, I'd like you to give it a try and see for yourself how it works." Then shut up and give some time.

Knowing Igor's approach, I am all but certain that this is what they've been doing with Ayton, and it's not working. I think Ayton is being left to his own devices too much. This team needs an enforcer to instill accountability among the players. Too many players are falling into too many of the same bad habits too often, in my opinion.

 

[Proximo]

For me, that's the problem with Igor in a nutshell, as applied to everything. He continues to let everything happen. He is just way too slow to act or adjust for my taste. Some would call it methodical. I just call it slow and passive.

Unlike you, I do not believe he can make everything I want happen immediately.

Ayton has to learn to be aggressive on his own over time. It has already been happening slowly all season, and I see no reason to doubt it will continue.

Your impatience with him being blamed on Igor is just dumb in my opinion. If you really think Ayton is not being told constantly to be more aggressive you really are illogical. The freaking Suns announcers are even complaining about his play constantly. I have ZERO doubt he is hearing that message CONSTANTLY. But being told, and changing your style of play are not the same thing.

Your suggestion he should be benched is just ridiculous. He is at least our third best player as is, and we cannot afford to bench him especially with our lack of other rebounders. Not to mention the odds of that working are remote at best.

As far as Crawford goes - if he really is the mentor figure that everyone is looking up to, you do kind of have to play him some just to keep the other guys respect. But supposedly they are running a special offense for Crawford - and it just sucks. It needs to change.

 

[1tinsoldier]

it is level-headed for a player being triple-teamed to kick the ball out to one of their open teammates
and hard-headed to force the shot
except in Ayton's case, when he's taller than the defenders
it's a higher percentage shot for him to go straight up
score, get fouled, or both

it's not such a bad thing that he is being too level-headed his rookie season
but i want to see him lay the hammer down to the tune of at least 4 fouls per game, 4 trips to the free throw line, and a couple of blocks

 

[95pro]

Oubre quit trying to bait the refs! Just keep playing man. Ok it’s becoming a habit for him to actually try and get a call, hasn’t worked so far.

Crawford and Booker just dribbled out the clock too many times and stalled all ball movement. Not the team to do it against as the Thunder have a good half court defense.

Booker again, commits a stupid foul for his 3rd. Gets his 5th later on and has to sit.

Melton has been getting eaten up lately on defense.

Teams have no fear at all of:
1) attacking Melton
2) going in the lane and getting blocked
They know Ayton will not challenge and put them on their arse. They know the suns help defense is terrible.

Ayton was literally under the basket and had a mouse on him. Passes it out. Cmon man put it up. His mind is already made up that he’s going to pass it.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

Booker did not sit due to fouls. He sat out the end because the game was out of reach and they play tomorrow.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Unlike you, I do not believe he can make everything I want happen immediately.

Ayton has to learn to be aggressive on his own over time. It has already been happening slowly all season, and I see no reason to doubt it will continue.

Your impatience with him being blamed on Igor is just dumb in my opinion. If you really think Ayton is not being told constantly to be more aggressive you really are illogical. The freaking Suns announcers are even complaining about his play constantly. I have ZERO doubt he is hearing that message CONSTANTLY. But being told, and changing your style of play are not the same thing.

Your suggestion he should be benched is just ridiculous. He is at least our third best player as is, and we cannot afford to bench him especially with our lack of other rebounders. Not to mention the odds of that working are remote at best.

As far as Crawford goes - if he really is the mentor figure that everyone is looking up to, you do kind of have to play him some just to keep the other guys respect. But supposedly they are running a special offense for Crawford - and it just sucks. It needs to change.

You are arguing with a brick wall.

I looked at your post initially and was like "who the hell is he arguing with?". Then I scrolled down and hit the unhide ignored poster and I saw you were arguing with "he who will not be named".

And then I realized that you are still basically still arguing with a brickwall.

 

[GatorAZ]

As much as we all critique aytons play I think we need to get back to the real problem with the team which is one of the worst point guard rotation to ever grace an NBA court

This is true. I’ve been hard on Ayton/Igor but I’m done criticizing them for the rest of the year.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Crawford is having a rough go of it the last few games, and his shot selection is hurting the team. Not sure what's going on there, he seemed to be in a pretty good rhythm not too long ago.

 

[Hoop Head]

Crawford is having a rough go of it the last few games, and his shot selection is hurting the team. Not sure what's going on there, he seemed to be in a pretty good rhythm not too long ago.

I think the knee issue he had that caused him to miss the Magic game and made him a game time decision today is part of the issue. He has no bounce to his step, which he did prior to these last couple of games. I would like to see Daniels take his minutes until he's healthy. There is no reason to play guys that aren't 100%. Daniels can do a lot of what Crawford can and he looked good when he got time earlier this year. Supposedly he's been one of the key guys in practice helping the youngsters along. I think we might be able to dangle him in a trade at the deadline also if he can get some consistent minutes for the next 10 games. He's a solid 3pt shooter on a $3 million dollar expiring contract, I would think a playoff team might see value in him. What he could get in return, who knows, but we might be able to get a backup PG from somewhere.

Last year at the deadline the Magic gave up Elfrid Payton and the Nuggets gave up on Emmanuel Mudiay. It would be nice if a couple teams did something similar this year. I think Daniels would have the value of a high 2nd round pick but we're not looking for picks right now but he might carry that value similar to that to the right team. Maybe even a 3 way trade where a team gives up some 2nd rounders, we send out Daniels, and some team that takes the 2nd rounders give us someone.

 

[Carolinacacti]

With back to back games I would think Okabo and Daniels will play tonight. Looked like Holmes was hurt at one point when he was in. Anyways three good quarters of play is better then one.